Kerry 2006 vs Tyrone 2005

lynchy101

Who would win?

Id say Kerry due to their superior forwards.They beat Armagh comfortably that year with a man down.

harpsman

probably tyrone given that they beat them in 03,05 and 08

toodleytoo

Well I'm biased but I'd say Kerry. They had become much stronger, physically and mentally, in 2006. They would have been a very different prospect from the '05 team that lost the All-Ireland. Pity they never met in '06!

Mr. Incognito

oh no.....................

can of worms.

kerry had better players

tyrone had better manager

tyrone were mostly injured in 2006 and didn't make any sort of run

i think kerry were a better team, but tyrone were set up to beat them tactically every time

corny

lynchy101 wrote: »

Who would win?

Id say Kerry due to their superior forwards.They beat Armagh comfortably that year with a man down.

I'd prefer the Tyrone forwards tbh. Dooher, McGuigan, O'Neill, Mulligan and Canavan (missing someone?) played as a fantastic unit.

Tyrone had the better players playing with a greater intensity and for me they win every time. Correction they did win every time the 2 met didn't they!

lynchy101

corny wrote: »

I'd prefer the Tyrone forwards tbh. Dooher, McGuigan, O'Neill, Mulligan and Canavan (missing someone?) played as a fantastic unit.

Tyrone had the better players playing with a greater intensity and for me they win every time. Correction they did win every time the 2 met didn't they!

If you dont know what you are talking about please dont reply

Pride Fighter

lynchy101 wrote: »

If you dont know what you are talking about please dont reply

If you cannot be civil, dont bother coming on here.

Read this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056280122 and decide for yourself how many rules you've broken. Infraction given.

harpsman

lynchy101 wrote: »

If you dont know what you are talking about please dont reply

Ah yes,the ol keyboard warriors.
PS Ryan Mellon was the 6th forward-no great shakes but did score Tyrones 1st 2 points in that final.

Clareman

Play nice or this thread gets closed

Gophur

Close the thread, so!

Why the censorship?

aveytare

lynchy101 wrote: »

If you dont know what you are talking about please dont reply

I don't really understand this comment. Tyrone had a fantastic forward line in '05 - all six of them scored from play in the final if my memory serves me correctly. As Jack O'Connor said recently about the 05 final "they were better then than they were in 2003 or 2008. You had six Tyrone forwards that day who could have each been man of the match."

Clareman

Gophur wrote: »

Close the thread, so!

Why the censorship?

Pick a reason

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056280122

Gophur

Clareman wrote: »

Pick a reason

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056280122

My reply on the topic, to the OP was deleted. Your link doesn't give a reason why.

padd b1975

toodleytoo wrote: »

Well I'm biased but I'd say Kerry. They had become much stronger, physically and mentally, in 2006. They would have been a very different prospect from the '05 team that lost the All-Ireland. Pity they never met in '06!

No but they met in 08 and Kerry never really looked like winning. Tyrone pulled away quite easily in the last few minutes, it was clear they just wanted it more than Kerry.

theoneeyedman

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

oh no.....................

can of worms.

kerry had better players

tyrone had better manager

tyrone were mostly injured in 2006 and didn't make any sort of run

i think kerry were a better team, but tyrone were set up to beat them tactically every time

Don't know what this is based on....technically the generation of players from tyrone you are talking about are 2nd to none and add o that their levels of decication and intensity you can't say that kerry have or had better players...even the forwards would anyone bar gooch and declan o sullivan have held a place on the tyrone team?

corny

lynchy101 wrote: »

If you dont know what you are talking about please dont reply

Thanks for that. I'll try to agree with you next time:D

Anyway add in Cavanagh and the half backs i'd argue Tyrone had more scoring options.

Oh and Ryan Mellon, its been posted already i know, but it came to me today i swear.

shezmagic

Did Kerry really have the better forwards? I am not so sure.

Kerry's attack in 2006 final - Sean O'Sullivan, Declan O'Sullivan, Paul Galvin, Colm Cooper, Kieran Donaghy, Mike Frank Russell

Tyrone's attack in 2005 final - Brian Dooher, Brian McGuigan, Ryan Mellon, Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill, Owen Mulligan

Not much between them really. If anything I would slightly favour Tyrone's to be honest.

legendary.xix

Why was the Gooch poked in the eye? Why was he subsequently more or less out of the match for a while after that? Why was that the period in the game Tyrone got back into the match? I asked that question to a few Tyrone fans before the '08 final and they had no answer. Being sporting, we did congratulate them on their win afterwards. A lot suspect it would not have been the same had the boot been on the other foot. I ask again, why in '05 was Gooch poked in the eye?

aveytare

legendary.xix wrote: »

Why was the Gooch poked in the eye? Why was he subsequently more or less out of the match for a while after that? Why was that the period in the game Tyrone got back into the match? I asked that question to a few Tyrone fans before the '08 final and they had no answer. Being sporting, we did congratulate them on their win afterwards. A lot suspect it would not have been the same had the boot been on the other foot. I ask again, why in '05 was Gooch poked in the eye?

Have any Cork fans come up to you and asked 'why was Nicholas Murphy elbowed at the start of the 09 final, and seemingly pre-emptively?'

Clareman

*GROAN*

This thread is about hypothetical situations where people want to play 1 team against another, not what happened in particular games, personally I think threads like this have great possibilities for some great discussions.

legendary.xix

In fairness I did go a bit off topic. Back on topic, it is hard to tell. With the exception of '03 when Tyrone really stormed through and set a level, Kerry responded in '04, Kerry were always off the back of an All-Ireland win the year before.
On the question of Kerry '06 and Tyrone '05, it is a hard one to answer. It'd have been interesting to see how Tyrone would've gotten on as defending All-Ireland champions when taking on Kerry.
Sorry, getting back on topic, I'd like to think Kerry would've won but I'm probably biased.

K-9

Tbh I think the Tyrone 08 team was better than 05, the big loss from 05 being Canavan and Brian McGuigan not at his best but the style of football was better, a more all round game, better to watch anyway.

Very little difference in the half forward lines between the 06 and 05 team, Tyrone just shade it there for me, Kerry just about shade the full forward line but that's more because Canavan was at the end of his career.

Kerry: D Murphy; M Ó Sé, M McCarthy, T O'Sullivan; T Ó Sé, S Moynihan, A O'Mahony

Tyrone: P McConnell; R McMenamin, J McMahon, M McGee; D Harte, C Gormley, P Jordan

Not much in that either, I'd say Kerry goalkeeper and FB line but I'd take Tyrone's half backs.

Midfield: D Ó Sé & T Griffin V. E McGinley & S Cavanagh

Tyrone shade that because it was a better partnership.

Subs used Kerry: E Brosnan, Darren O'Sullivan, B Sheehan, E Fitzmaurice, B Guiney
Tyrone: C Holmes, C Lawn, P Canavan

Don't have the full list but that Canavan sub wasn't half bad!

There really isn't much in it but if it's a head to head I'd have to go with Tyrone. That Tyrone team won probably the toughest ever AI, 5 games in Ulster beating Cavan easily after a draw, losing to Armagh after a replay in the final in a game that easily could have went the other way, beat Monaghan, Dublin after a draw when it took that Mulligan goal to get them out of bother, won the replay convincingly and that epic battle against Armagh in the SF and of course winning the AI against a team looking for revenge for 03. 10 games and lost 1 to a damn good Armagh team.

So, when comparing them not much in it, in a match against each other, Tyrone 05 9 times out of 10.

Pride Fighter

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh I think the Tyrone 08 team was better than 05, the big loss from 05 being Canavan and Brian McGuigan not at his best but the style of football was better, a more all round game, better to watch anyway.

Very little difference in the half forward lines between the 06 and 05 team, Tyrone just shade it there for me, Kerry just about shade the full forward line but that's more because Canavan was at the end of his career.

Kerry: D Murphy; M Ó Sé, M McCarthy, T O'Sullivan; T Ó Sé, S Moynihan, A O'Mahony

Tyrone: P McConnell; R McMenamin, J McMahon, M McGee; D Harte, C Gormley, P Jordan

Not much in that either, I'd say Kerry goalkeeper and FB line but I'd take Tyrone's half backs.

Midfield: D Ó Sé & T Griffin V. E McGinley & S Cavanagh

Tyrone shade that because it was a better partnership.

Subs used Kerry: E Brosnan, Darren O'Sullivan, B Sheehan, E Fitzmaurice, B Guiney
Tyrone: C Holmes, C Lawn, P Canavan

Don't have the full list but that Canavan sub wasn't half bad!

There really isn't much in it but if it's a head to head I'd have to go with Tyrone. That Tyrone team won probably the toughest ever AI, 5 games in Ulster beating Cavan easily after a draw, losing to Armagh after a replay in the final in a game that easily could have went the other way, beat Monaghan, Dublin after a draw when it took that Mulligan goal to get them out of bother, won the replay convincingly and that epic battle against Armagh in the SF and of course winning the AI against a team looking for revenge for 03. 10 games and lost 1 to a damn good Armagh team.

So, when comparing them not much in it, in a match against each other, Tyrone 05 9 times out of 10.

Hit the nail on the head K-9. I remember Pat Spillane saying 2 years ago that the Kerry team was the team of the decade in the 2000's. I remember disagreeing with him for all the reasons you listed and more. You have to remember Kerry got 3 gimme all Irelands in 00, 04 and 06. Whenever Tyrone won, they did it the hard way. Also for a county to go from zero all Irelands to 3 in the space of 5 years is amazing.

That Tyrone team was a very hard team, but very fair. And at times they could play scintillating football, they absolutely annihilated Dublin in 08 in the pissings of rain, playing amazing football and the draw in 05 with what was probably on a par with Seamus Darby for the greatest football goal of all time. I'll always remember Brian Dooher, how that man played for 70 minutes at that workrate baffles me. He'd hassle and harry at the full back line, 25 seconds later he picks up a loose ball 45 meters away and puts it over the bar with exquisite technique. Canavan, Mulligan and O'Neill on their day were all unplayable.

The greater team was Tyrone. All we have to do is look at how many times Tyrone beat Kerry and vice-versa. Neither team is finished. But if you want a bet, I'd go for Tyrone this year. No one has mentioned them as contenders. But after what was probably the worst year since loosing Cormac McAnallen for Tyrone football after the tragedy of losing Mickey Harte's daughter, there will be something intangible, deep inside the souls of all the Tyrone footballers that will lead them to glory this year. And good luck to them, the greatest football team of the last 10 years.

K-9

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head K-9. I remember Pat Spillane saying 2 years ago that the Kerry team was the team of the decade in the 2000's. I remember disagreeing with him for all the reasons you listed and more. You have to remember Kerry got 3 gimme all Irelands in 00, 04 and 06. Whenever Tyrone won, they did it the hard way. Also for a county to go from zero all Irelands to 3 in the space of 5 years is amazing.

That Tyrone team was a very hard team, but very fair. And at times they could play scintillating football, they absolutely annihilated Dublin in 08 in the pissings of rain, playing amazing football and the draw in 05 with what was probably on a par with Seamus Darby for the greatest football goal of all time. I'll always remember Brian Dooher, how that man played for 70 minutes at that workrate baffles me. He'd hassle and harry at the full back line, 25 seconds later he picks up a loose ball 45 meters away and puts it over the bar with exquisite technique. Canavan, Mulligan and O'Neill on their day were all unplayable.

The greater team was Tyrone. All we have to do is look at how many times Tyrone beat Kerry and vice-versa. Neither team is finished. But if you want a bet, I'd go for Tyrone this year. No one has mentioned them as contenders. But after what was probably the worst year since loosing Cormac McAnallen for Tyrone football after the tragedy of losing Mickey Harte's daughter, there will be something intangible, deep inside the souls of all the Tyrone footballers that will lead them to glory this year. And good luck to them, the greatest football team of the last 10 years.

Well on silverware won, hard to argue, the black mark is they never beat Tyrone to win one, not their fault, but in 08 Tyrone came from nowhere, could see them building myself and playing a completely different brand of football too from a fantastic attacking match against Down, the team reinvented itself after Canavan gone and McGuigan recovering from an extremely serious injury.

So you could blame puke football in 03, the jab in the eye in 05 but in 08? Nothing IMO, beaten by a very all round talented team, McMenamin playing as forward in the SF IIRC, Justin McMahon all over the pitch, Joe McMahon HF Dooher his usual self, Cavanagh playing FF, Midfield or HF as needed, something Cork took on and took it to another level. Mulligan, O'Neill, McGuigan, Colm Cavanagh, Kieran Hughes and Ciaran Gourley on the bench.

As for Dooher, I remember saying on here after 20 minutes of the 08 final he was having a nightmare, giving the ball away and then he pops up with the point of the match from out on the right sideline with the outside of his boot.

Mr. Incognito

Kerry were in six all ireland finals in a row.


they won more all irelands 00,04,06,07,09 (5)

V 03,05,08 (3)

Tyrone squeeked past them in both 05 and 08 and it could easily have gone either way- in 08 it was level with ten minutes to go and kerry missed a goal chance.

03 was tyrone over armagh and it was one of the worst finals in my living memory as well as tyrone getting a two point lead in the semi against kerry and the players dropping as if they were shot.

tyrones rise has been a fairytail from a team that thought they could win in 03, had to win in 05 and believed they could win in 08 but Kerry have the consistency, the class and record in the decade.

tyrone collapsed in 01,02,04 and 06 were unlucky in 07 and collapsed again in 2010. can hardly call that a better team

K-9

Yeah, but it's 06 vs. 05.

I based my opinion on that first and then went on.

Kerry are unarguably the team of the decade achievement wise.

If it was 06 Kerry vs. 05 Tyrone, which side you'd want to be on?

05 Tyrone for me without much doubt.

aveytare

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

03 was tyrone over armagh and it was one of the worst finals in my living memory as well as tyrone getting a two point lead in the semi against kerry and the players dropping as if they were shot.

I think that statement does Tyrone a disservice - firstly, the 03 final was indeed poor quality but Armagh were an impressive team and in a sense the 04/06 finals were equally as bad (not Kerry's fault), and secondly, I think you're underplaying Tyrone's superiority in the 03 semi-final (9-2 at half-time etc). I'm watching the tennis right now, maybe Tyrone v Kerry is a bit like Nadal v Federer (Federer more titles and arguably aesthetically better - i'd dispute the latter in relation to Tyrone/Kerry but im biased - whereas Nadal seems to have the upper-hand in head-to-head battles).

lynchy101

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head K-9. I remember Pat Spillane saying 2 years ago that the Kerry team was the team of the decade in the 2000's. I remember disagreeing with him for all the reasons you listed and more. You have to remember Kerry got 3 gimme all Irelands in 00, 04 and 06. Whenever Tyrone won, they did it the hard way. Also for a county to go from zero all Irelands to 3 in the space of 5 years is amazing.

That Tyrone team was a very hard team, but very fair. And at times they could play scintillating football, they absolutely annihilated Dublin in 08 in the pissings of rain, playing amazing football and the draw in 05 with what was probably on a par with Seamus Darby for the greatest football goal of all time. I'll always remember Brian Dooher, how that man played for 70 minutes at that workrate baffles me. He'd hassle and harry at the full back line, 25 seconds later he picks up a loose ball 45 meters away and puts it over the bar with exquisite technique. Canavan, Mulligan and O'Neill on their day were all unplayable.

The greater team was Tyrone. All we have to do is look at how many times Tyrone beat Kerry and vice-versa. Neither team is finished. But if you want a bet, I'd go for Tyrone this year. No one has mentioned them as contenders. But after what was probably the worst year since loosing Cormac McAnallen for Tyrone football after the tragedy of losing Mickey Harte's daughter, there will be something intangible, deep inside the souls of all the Tyrone footballers that will lead them to glory this year. And good luck to them, the greatest football team of the last 10 years.

Am I hearing you right?

There is no such thing as a "gimme" All-Ireland

J Cheever Loophole

On the thread / question itself, I would guess Tyrone 2005 - to my mind Kerry had a psychological issue with Tyrone around that period, and that was still evident in 2008. On the assumption that this hypothetical match took place in 2005 / 06, then it would be the Red Hands for me.

lynchy101 wrote: »

Id say Kerry due to their superior forwards.They beat Armagh comfortably that year with a man down.

Going off track slightly, but that comment irks. The final winning margin was eight points, but in the last five minutes Kerry held a three point lead and were holding on for dear life - Enda McNulty then plays a pass across his own fifty, Darren O'Sullivan intercepts, and runs in to score a goal. That kills the game, and in the closing minutes, to the sound of olés, Kerry add two further points.

lynchy101 wrote: »

There is no such thing as a "gimme" All-Ireland

Agree. In this respect, Kerry remind me a wee bit of Man United in the Premiership in recent years, where in a mini league of the so called 'big four', Man U only come third / fourth in matches involving these four teams against each other, yet go on to win the actual Premiersip title - why, because they hammer the lesser opposition more consistently than the others.

Similarly with Kerry - might not have as good a head to head record against Tyrone in recent years, but end up with more All Irelands. I honestly believe in 2004 both Armagh and Tyrone were ahead of the Kingdom - however Kerry would never have lost the games Armagh and Tyrone did on that 'day of earthquakes' in Croke Park - and it's all about winning!!

lynchy101

shezmagic wrote: »

Did Kerry really have the better forwards? I am not so sure.

Kerry's attack in 2006 final - Sean O'Sullivan, Declan O'Sullivan, Paul Galvin, Colm Cooper, Kieran Donaghy, Mike Frank Russell

Tyrone's attack in 2005 final - Brian Dooher, Brian McGuigan, Ryan Mellon, Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill, Owen Mulligan

Not much between them really. If anything I would slightly favour Tyrone's to be honest.

Sean O s vs Brian Dooher=ADV TYR

Declan O S vs Brian McGuigan ADV KER

Paul Galvin vs Ryan Mellon ADV KER

Colm Cooper vs Peter Canavan ADV KER

Kieran Donaghy vs Stephen O Neill ADV TYR

Mike Frank vs Owen Mulligan EVEN

Het-Field

I would maintain that Tyrone's 2005 victory was far more impressive, and hard fought than Kerry's 2006 win

They lost in their provincial final to a very strong Armagh team, returned to beat a half-decent Dublin side, the same strong Armagh team and an excellent Kerry to win the title.

Kerry's only truly spectacular victory in 2006 was their win over Armagh. They beat an ordinary Cork team in the Semi Final, and hammered a Mayo team who were only in the final thanks to a mental capitulation by Dublin.

On the other hand, I think Kerry's 2006 victory was a signal of what was to come. The great Tyrone team of 2005 had one bounce in 2008, and that was it. The guts of the 2006 Kerry team remain on top of their game, and have been ever since 2006.

JFlah

As a Kerryman I have to be honest and say Tyrone 2005 , just had such a balanced team and so many interchangeable players. Also I think Tyrone just had Kerrys number and would have beaten us almost everytime we met. they outfought us in 2003 and in 2005/2008 outfought us and outfootballed us and see no reason why 2006 would have been different. I also think in years to come people will realise how good a team Tyrone were , one of the best imho .