Child possibly in danger, any point calling Social Services?

LegacyUser

Living in a small council estate for past 3 years.

Couple of months after I moved in a young single mum moved into the house next door. She was initially friendly but the situation changed dramatically over the coming weeks and months.

I noticed her son (who is now about 4) getting very little attention from the offset, constantly crying, etc.

It became clear that his mum was very involved in drugs and also working as some kind of prostitute out of her house. Needless to say myself and other neighbours were not happy about this as we all have young children, this woman was advertising on an escort website (which I found by accident while googling the village we live in!), and throughout the day there were sleazy men arriving in the estate with flowers visiting her home and openly paying her at the door afterwards in broad daylight. The estate was safe and quiet otherwise, but I did not like this going on right next to my own home.

It escalated into late night parties every night, windows getting smashed in her house, very obvious deliveries of drugs, dealers visiting, fighting over money, etc.

It was clear to anyone during this time that her child was neglected, left outside when it rained, sitting in wet grass in the cold wearing very little clothing, constantly crying through the night (thin walls so we can hear everything) while she had loud parties downstairs. Lots of social problems, fighting with men outside the house, etc.

I and several other neighbours called the Gardai countless times discreetly, not wanting to have direct confrontation with this woman, asking them not to give my name. The Gardai did absolutely nothing (they called but just kept telling us there was little they could do), it solved nothing. Nearest Garda station is 16 miles away (this is a small quiet rural village) so often by the time the Gardai came the situation would have settled down, and sometimes it was hours before the Gardai would arrive as they were 'too busy'. I don't believe there were many other drug parties taking place in this rural region!

The neighbour immediately decided it was me who brought the Gardai on her (although several other neighbours also called them and the Gardai said they received multiple calls) and proceeded to launch attacks on me and my home, herself and her party guests kicking my front door in on multiple occasions, breaking my front window, kicking my car door, keying my car, breaking my back window on my car. It was just non stop for a while with me sitting up at nights terrified they would start a fire in my home or such, and having to constantly stay awake to protect my kids.

Again, the Gardai were of little or no help, I would call them during one of these disturbances, they would arrive and all was quiet, I would tell them it was my neighbour again, they would log it, they'd call to her and she'd deny all. I'd wait and wait for them to call me back and let me know what was going on, ask to speak to sergeants. It was a nightmare and seemed unsolvable.

I ended up having to pay for the damage to my car myself (couldn't afford to ever fix the paintwork so still driving a car destroyed with key marks) as the Gardai never followed anything up, never called me back to let me know what was going on. I won't go into the details of the Gardai any further as it will probably result in my thread being closed for criticising them.

The situation settled down eventually when I just stopped getting the Gardai involved and started to ignore my neighbour and her activity completely. I tried to get a house elsewhere but so far have had no luck so I have to try and live next to this monster.

I still feel sad for the child who is now about 4 years old. He is constantly crying, seems quite underweight, never gets attention. He plays alone in the garden with shabby, dirty clothes while his mother participates in a range of illegal activities. He is still left outside if it rains, having to cry outside until his mother decides to let him in. He can be heard crying late at night, there is noise through the night so there is no way he could be getting any regular routine or normal night's sleep.

Her parents occasionally visit and are both very abusive alcoholics and this child is in the middle of screaming and shouting and drunken parties.

He should be starting school in September, I would imagine, but who knows what will happen.

I have been in touch with the council on many occasions as have neighbours wanting to get this woman moved but nothing has been done.

And all the while the child is suffering.

The child's dad used to visit but moved away (emigrated) and no longer sees him after endless disagreements with the mother.

I can't say anything about the child for sure, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors apart from hearing him cry regularly. I can see him in the back garden from my house, sitting on the grass by himself for hours on end so he's not getting regular attention or feeding. He looks unclean, his clothes are dirty and shabby. His hair is unclean. It is obvious to anyone that he is not being cared for as well as he should be.

But I can't say that his screaming and crying at night is because he's being abused. But I have seen her slapping him outside for his crying, and generally being rough with him.

Everyone in the estate is aware of all of the above but no more than myself, no one is willing to get involved anymore after the attacks I received.

I constantly wonder if it is possible to anonymously tip off the social services and know for sure that they would come rescue the child, but I fear it will end up the same as the Gardai 'investigations'.

If I knew I could move house in the morning I would immediately get the SS onto her, but from what I've heard, they're so tied up in bureaucracy that they're unlikely to do much other than perhaps a home check which she will be notified about and if that's the case, she will make sure everything is above board for the check.

I'm sure people will say I'm being selfish by not reacting but I am a lone parent myself, I have young children and never want to put them through what we went through before when we tried to resolve this situation.

I feel I'm treading on eggshells all the time since, trying to keep out of this dangerous woman's way. I do not want further hassle from her and her visitors/friends.

If I was to send an anonymous report to the social services, do they have to follow it up? Are they going to tell her that it came from a neighbour? Do they need named reports from myself to follow up what's going on?

What would you do?
Thanks.

carlybabe1

That sounds horrendous OP, If I were you, Id get my hands on a digital camera and make a video of everything;
the child out the back in the rain
the men calling to the house
the noise of the parties
the constant crying of the child,
Then I would contact the gardai and tell them u have video evidence (if you caught them vandalising your property all the better)
Then I would contact social services and alert them getting the name of the person whom your talking to, if they do nothing Id contact them again, and tell them you are passing on the info to the local paper along with the call log of you contacting them and they doing nothing. You'll see them moving then

At the end of the day OP will you be able to live with yourself if anything happens to that child?? I know I couldnt :mad:

Id also contact the council, and send them a copy of the behaviour, but either way she definitely needs reporting to the ss for the sake of the baby

username123

What about yourself and other neighbours banding together as a group and approaching the Guards and/or social services together - with no front person to the group - just a 'group of concerned residents'?

Morag

Socail serives exist for you to call them in exactly these types of situation.
You need to contact the clinic closest to you which has a team which is on call.
You can talk to them over the phone or call into to them and explain your concerns.
They will not disclose that it was you who contacted them and they must call out to the house with in 24 hours of the report being made. They will not tell her they are coming they will just arrive.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Children_and_Family_Services/Child_Welfare_and_Protection/Social_Workers/

Social Workers

Based at our 32 Local Health Offices around the country, Child Protection Services work to promote positive and enduring change in the lives of children and families by providing caring services for children and families. Social workers provide frontline services to children who are not receiving adequate care and protection.

Click on the link above to find out where your nearest contact is.

LegacyUser

I gave the Gardai a printout copy of the ad which has been removed from the web in the past few months. I took endless photos at the time before all of the trouble got brought to my door. I showed the Gardai the photos. There was an independent witness to my car door being kicked in to the point that I couldn't open it, that witness went to the Gardai of his own accord (not knowing who owned the car) and reported what he'd seen.

I am afraid there is nothing more I can pursue, I pointed out to them condoms in the small front garden where the child plays, there are far more details that I haven't written here.

The Gardai kept asking me if I really wanted to pursue this, leaving me to deeply question how much danger I was in if I wanted to prosecute someone for wrecking my car and attacking my house. Nothing is worth me having to sit up all night by the phone shaking with terror again.

I'm wondering about trying to follow up a different avenue of investigation now, if the SS want they could ask the Gardai for the reports that have been submitted to them before I'm sure. But meanwhile I feel I have to do something, like you say I would find it very hard to live with myself if something happens to the child. I don't know how he hasn't got continuous bad health from the conditions he's exposed to. I don't know what mental effect the situation must be taking on him though he's probably not fully aware of it yet.

But I have to protect my own children too, and that is the stance that everyone else in our estate has decided to take after what happened to my home.

Let me be clear here that the fighting, damage, etc is carried out not just by this woman but by a party of men involved in drugs and other crimes who are fearless when it comes to the law, she just happens to be the one inviting them to her home.

LegacyUser

Sharrow wrote: »

Socail serives exist for you to call them in exactly these types of situation.
You need to contact the clinic closest to you which has a team which is on call.
You can talk to them over the phone or call into to them and explain your concerns.
They will not disclose that it was you who contacted them and they must call out to the house with in 24 hours of the report being made. They will not tell her they are coming they will just arrive.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Children_and_Family_Services/Child_Welfare_and_Protection/Social_Workers/




Click on the link above to find out where your nearest contact is.

That's exactly what I was trying to find out, thanks.

I may wait to do this until I'm going away on holiday with the kids later in the summer so I won't be there when the war kicks off as I'm sure she will come straight to me about it afterwards as I am her nearest neighbour.


Unfortunately there are no neighbours willing to get involved in this and I can't blame them one bit. I've spoken to my sister and mother about this and they think I'm nuts for considering getting involved in the situation again after what happened before.

Most of the neighbours in our estate spoke to the Gardai about what happened previously, most residents were concerned about sleazy men sitting on the wall outside the house in broad daylight while young children played nearby. The Gardai would come out and sit and watch in a Garda car and tell us they saw no sign of any problems but of course nothing like this happened in a tiny estate when there was a Garda car sitting nearby!

My closest neighbours on the other side have begged me to turn a blind eye as they were afraid the trouble would come to their house if I call anyone in about this again.

They have pointed out that we don't know anything about what happens with the child behind closed doors, perhaps he is very well looked after and this could be what comes across to the social services, and a visit will be a waste of time.

Is it possible to send a letter to the social services so I wouldn't have to be seen calling into them directly..?

Pebbles68

I know it sounds callous but I'd think of self preservation if I was you. OK I don't have children of my own and maybe I'd feel different if I was a mother but you have been a target already. Try and imagine what she or her associates could be capable of if her child was taken away. Remember you are not dealing with rational people here, then add drugs into the mix and who knows where it might end. As much as you want to help sadly it appears that you and your children may suffer the most.

LegacyUser

Pebbles68 wrote: »

I know it sounds callous but I'd think of self preservation if I was you. OK I don't have children of my own and maybe I'd feel different if I was a mother but you have been a target already. Try and imagine what she or her associates could be capable of if her child was taken away. Remember you are not dealing with rational people here, then add drugs into the mix and who knows where it might end. As much as you want to help sadly it appears that you and your children may suffer the most.

Hi, thanks for understanding. I know most people will probably criticise that outlook but that's exactly what I'm feeling most of the time when I think this through.

Deep down, the mother of the child would probably be delighted to see him gone as she would be able to party unrestricted all of the time, but her reaction is not likely to reflect that.

If I knew I was moving away to a secret location in the morning I would happily get involved but these people are dangerous and if the Gardai aren't willing to sort it out, I probably shouldn't be trying to.

ElleEm

Pebbles68 wrote: »

I know it sounds callous but I'd think of self preservation if I was you. OK I don't have children of my own and maybe I'd feel different if I was a mother but you have been a target already. Try and imagine what she or her associates could be capable of if her child was taken away. Remember you are not dealing with rational people here, then add drugs into the mix and who knows where it might end. As much as you want to help sadly it appears that you and your children may suffer the most.

Taking the child into care would be an absolute last resort. It also seems as though the mother doesn't have a record with Social Services already(seen as the Gardai don't really care) so a report to SS will lead to the home being investigated. It could be complete ignorance on the mother's part that leads her to not caring for her child in the best way, so Social Workers will ascertain this by chatting with her and offering her a variety of supports and services.

Also. OP, I would recommend a phone call as opposed to a letter, as the Social Work team will have to speak with you (ask questions etc.) about the situation to check the facts. It is a good idea to get in contact with them before your holidays if you're in fear of repercussions.

triseke

OP my advice would be to call the local social work team. This child is in obvious distress, and is not been looked after adequately. Please call the social workers, so that they can at least investigate your neighbour's situation, and her ability to look after her child.

Right now, you and the other neighbours are the only witnesses, who appear to care about this kid, to this child's neglect, and only you all can stop it by alerting the correct authorities.

car.kar

worried mum wrote: »

left outside when it rained, sitting in wet grass in the cold

This is how one mistreats a dog, let alone a child. You definitely need to call Social Services.

ziltwo

I think you should act straight away; how would you feel if something awful happened to the poor child, you would be full of guilt and remorse. I understand your dilemma, but you and your neighbours are the only help for this child.
zil

LegacyUser

I think it's really up to the Gardai to tackle this one, even though they have clearly let everyone involved down so far.

There is no point putting the life of your own children and yourself in danger in order to help out in this situation, particularly as you can't guarantee that Social Services will see anything untoward if they visit.

I think it's best to put your children first and work further on trying to find somewhere else to live for yourself.

Morag

worried mum wrote: »

They have pointed out that we don't know anything about what happens with the child behind closed doors, perhaps he is very well looked after and this could be what comes across to the social services, and a visit will be a waste of time.

It is never a waste of time.

worried mum wrote: »

Is it possible to send a letter to the social services so I wouldn't have to be seen calling into them directly..?

You need to ring them or ideally call into speak to the team.
Bring them the photos and the website print out and tell them what you have seen and your concerns re the child.
The report you make, what you say and your identity will be not disclosed under the child protection act.

It does not need to be the local one you can go to the next one over and deal with them, you can make an appointment and go straight into their offices instead of waiting around in the clinic.

Who knows what is happening to that child, esp if she has people in the house and then is out of it from drug/drink use.

lace

That child needs someone to call SS now. He can't do it for himself. There aren't any family/friends who are going to do it for him. All your neighbours are turning a blind eye. I know you have to think of yourself, your family and your property but would you really be able to live with yourself if anything terrible (or worse than the horror he's living at the moment) happened to that child?

I know the Guards have been useless so far and, from what you've written here, it seems you've done everything in your power so far to get this woman sorted out. There's no harm in calling SS and letting them deal with it. If you don't do it someone else eventually might and it seems that this woman is so irrational she'll blame you anyway whether it's you who reports her or not.


Hope it all goes well!

doctor evil

Would the guarda ombudsmen be any use?

Definitely ring the SS, tbh if the kid gets taken away (could be the best thing for him to break the cycle of abusive grandparents/parents) would she and co notice or care?

If hell breaks out could you stay with your sis/mum?

sparkling sea

Ring social services - the girl and her child seem to have terrible problems and if no one steps in the consequences could be terrible.

Have a look at this page on the Dept of Children website, it will answer any questions you need answered. And remember no matter what you are told, you can remain anonymous and if you are worried about consequences for yourself they don't give your name unless you are happy to do so.

Please act soon

http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=%2Fdocuments%2FChild_Welfare_Protection%2FCWPPU_FAQ.htm&mn=chif&nID=9

terenc

Maybe Iam wrong but you have a duty to protect the child and has the law stands you could be charged or your neighbors for not informing the Garda what is happening to the child(abuses).Maybe quote this to the social services and let them involve the Garda.
They have a duty of care also not leave child in the conditions you describe.

Zen65

terenc wrote: »

Maybe Iam wrong but you have a duty to protect the child and has the law stands you could be charged or your neighbors for not informing the Garda what is happening to the child(abuses).Maybe quote this to the social services and let them involve the Garda.

I'm certain no such duty of care applies; such a law would be unenforceable. The OP has reported the matter to the Gardai, and that is all that she could be expected to do.

I'm surprised the Gardai have not already notified HSE Social Workers, but it is possible they are poorly trained to deal with such matters, or that the local HSE office is under-resourced to deal with it.

OP I suggest that you do contact your nearest Social Workers with as much information and evidence as you can collect, including video, photos etc. Don't be put off if they don't respond exactly as you would like, because the reality seems to be that the workload for Social Workers is generally very high and they may not prioritise this case for action unless you report the matter repeatedly. Do be careful about collecting photos and video; you should not alert the mother that you are doing so.

I would also urge you to write (even e-mail) to all your local TD's and councillors to have them raise the issue with the HSE. The TDs' constituency offices will write to the HSE looking for an update and that alone will prompt some level of action from the HSE.

Do avoid any confrontation with this woman; you are right to prioritise the safety of your family over everything else. Ideally getting support from your neighbours would be a great help, but if they are unwilling I would still encourage you to persist for as long as you can. Keep writing to your local representatives each month to prompt them into taking action.

This child may yet grow to be grateful for the action you have taken to safeguard him from this awful woman (if your suspicions are correct: don't forget it is possible you are wrong but that's a matter for the HSE to investigate). You are a courageous citizen and you should be proud of your humanity for wanting to help the child.

Be at peace,


Z

Overheal

If I knew I could move house in the morning I would immediately get the SS onto her, but from what I've heard, they're so tied up in bureaucracy that they're unlikely to do much other than perhaps a home check which she will be notified about and if that's the case, she will make sure everything is above board for the check.

You assume that everyone that receives the notice will take it seriously or have the capacity to "prepare". A drugged out addict might have no sense of what that standard is or the desire to meet it for any number of reasons. Don't automatically assume that because she will get Notice that she will somehow be able to hide all of her flaws.

As for the boy, I just keep thinking. He's 4 now. But he'll be older later. And with all the drugs and the sex going on how inevitable would it be for one of these gentlemen callers with a sick fetish to have their way with the child? Then he's going to be really destroyed, and any idea of a normal life for him will be that much harder. You're doing the right thing to get this ended now.

All about Eve

You need to act now OP. Right now this minute. This is disgraceful. Are you and the rest of the neighbours waiting till he is dead? sorry but this ie horrendous. If it were me i would be out in that garden giving him food and clothes and talking to him. absoultely shocked by this post and how your even considering turning a blind eye for the sake of your own family. For shame
Also like to add the 4 year old is not possibly in danger. he is in danger. a child screaming through the night and left out in cold and looking thin with no clothes? i sometimes despair of this country and the type of people living in it. the mother should be horsewhipped.
the child needs your help, contact your local TD, also the guards, and social services. and the local papers.

sparkling sea

terenc wrote: »

Maybe Iam wrong but you have a duty to protect the child and has the law stands you could be charged or your neighbors for not informing the Garda what is happening to the child(abuses).Maybe quote this to the social services and let them involve the Garda.
They have a duty of care also not leave child in the conditions you describe.

No Samaritan Law in Ireland - although without a doubt I would say a moral, civic and humane duty exists.

In the case of a child in danger, social workers have more immediate powers the the gardai.

OP, please, please tell me you have contacted the social services - I know you must be going through hell but he is just a little child.

Also if you feel the child is in immediate danger and this problem happens to take place between 9 to 5 - Monday to Friday - all the better as it almost impossible to get a social worker to call unless an incident happens within normal working hours and the child is in immediate danger, thats the reality in Ireland.

ladygirl

OP Please watch this video........

http://youtu.be/cdHb6I0kSiM

Makes me cry every time I see it..

Please Please report this to Social Service ASAP, this child needs YOUR help..