Leo Varadkar: Public Transport Fares To Increase

the groutch

Fares across a range of public transport are set to increase and there will be a reduction in services, according to Minister for Transport Leo Vardakar.
Mr Varadkar said with passenger numbers falling and a big pension deficit in CIÉ, the company is losing money and Government subsidies of €700 million per annum will have to be reduced over the coming years.
He said the company faces big challenges in the years ahead to bring costs down to 2005 levels.
“There will probably have to be some level of fare increases unfortunately and there is going to have to be some reduction in services,” Mr Varadkar told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland .
The level of fare increases has yet to be determined but will depend on cost reductions and getting more people to use public transport he added.
Yesterday, the Minister named four new chairs of CIÉ and its constituent companies. Vivienne Jupp takes over at CIÉ while Kevin Bonner (Dublin Bus), Paul Mallee (Bus Éireann) and Phil Gaffney (Iarnród Éireann) fill the other roles.
The Minister said over the next few months the new chairpersons will make some changes to the boards and begin the process of cost reductions.
Mr Varadkar also denied he had plans to privatise any part of CIÉ saying it is not on the “Government’s agenda”.
And he said he would be naming a new chairperson for the Dublin Airport Authority in the coming months.

so he thinks that more fare increases and poorer quality service is going to get MORE people using public transport???
somebody's living in cloud cuckoo land.

Cookie_Monster

:rolleyes:

They've tried that for the last 3 years in a row: price up, service down and it hasn't worked.

How about actually cutting the price, people might actually think it's worth it then Leo!

KD345

Any fare increase should be put on hold until the introduction of integrated ticketing. I believe there then should be a complete review of the Dublin Bus/Dart/Luas fare structure and the new cash fares should be simplified.

Trampas

Another example of screw the consumer.

Public transport should be as cheap as possible and the service be as efficient as possible.

I presume evening and weekend service will be worst hit.

I am more a BE person than the other CIE service else so probably struggle to get a bus past 9 soon.

overshoot

how do they think people will use a much slower service than the car when its going to be the same price as running your car?
(i say same price as at the minute its just about cheaper... until you give someone a life in your car)

anyway if they get rid of the muppets making the timetable so buses arrive at usefull times it may also stand a chance. the 64 galway/derry lands in Donegal Town at 9am, it should be a big town like sligo letterkenny for commuters.

etc etc same old common sense bus eireann rant that they never listen to

LXFlyer

Personally I think that in terms of service reduction he is referring (in the case of the bus companies) to the current network redesign programmes.

In DB's case this involves cutting back duplicate/poorly used services and focussing resources on high frequency core routes.

BE have been expanding services in some areas, and cutting others back, and have merged some services together and this seems to be ongoing.

In the proposed IE Connolly timetable there are cuts in frequency where patronage is light.

I can't see another fare increase happening till the end of the year to be honest - two in one year would be unprecedented.

LXFlyer

overshoot wrote: »

how do they think people will use a much slower service than the car when its going to be the same price as running your car?
(i say same price as at the minute its just about cheaper... until you give someone a life in your car)

anyway if they get rid of the muppets making the timetable so buses arrive at usefull times it may also stand a chance. the 64 galway/derry lands in Donegal Town at 9am, it should be a big town like sligo letterkenny for commuters.
etc etc same old common sense bus eireann rant that they never listen to

What exactly do you mean? Do you mean run the Sligo/Derry service earlier?

Have you suggested it to them?

There are Donegal/Sligo commuter services, Ballybofey/Derry commuter services and a Derry/Donegal/Sligo service.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

I can't see another fare increase happening till the end of the year to be honest - two in one year would be unprecedented.

nope, done already in the last year for ticket prices, not calendar year but in less than 12 months
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71880477

In DB's case this involves cutting back duplicate/poorly used services and focussing resources on high frequency core routes.

It also involves taking large numbers of buses off the road and cutting heavily used services like the 4

paky

not only are we already paying through the nose for a sh.it service they expect to raise the fares and cut back on services! LMAO
you couldnt make this up! good old gombeen ireland is back and thriving!

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

nope, done already in the last year for ticket prices, not calendar year but in less than 12 months
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71880477

It also involves taking large numbers of buses off the road and cutting heavily used services like the 4

I was referring to fares not pre-paid tickets. There is a difference.

Inevitably there are going to be buses taken off the road - they have to cut costs and try to match the resources to the already shrunken market.

From what I gather the 4 was indeed heavily used at certain times of the day, but certainly not at others - I certainly never saw huge numbers on it at the weekend in particular, which is when the main cutbacks were made.

I do think they got the morning peak service southbound wrong on it, but if people are not using a service then the frequency is going to have to be cut.

The key to it is to get the service provision to match the demand.

paky

honestly like, how much more can they raise a return ticket from dublin to cork? if they raise it anymore it'll be cheaper, faster and more efficient to commute to london! omg

overshoot

lxflyer wrote: »

What exactly do you mean? Do you mean run the Sligo/Derry service earlier?

Have you suggested it to them?

There are Donegal/Sligo commuter services, Ballybofey/Derry commuter services and a Derry/Donegal/Sligo service.

the 480 'commuter?' has one that will get you in sligo and derry for 8.30, donegal town for 9 missing a decent slot for letterkenny commuters which has the same population as sligo and 7x donegal town.
looking the the 64 timetable, from galway to derry a bus gets in sligo for 9. from the derry direction the 3 buses on the road at 9ish first bus of the day gets to galway (fine).. the next knock airport (you give them 20mins to park the plane, get of it, get their luggage and get to the bus-there is only one plane served at this time), the next in ballyshannon.

and my point is why do you need members of the public to point this stuff out? anyone with common sense can see that if you want bums on seats you put the buses where and when people need them. as in landing in the town with the 17500 population where people work not the one with 2500or less. the timetables seem geared to getting the bus on the road at a nice cosy time not getting people to their destinations at useful times

D.L.R.

paky wrote: »

not only are we already paying through the nose for a sh.it service they expect to raise the fares and cut back on services! LMAO
you couldnt make this up! good old gombeen ireland is back and thriving!

Don't think it went anywhere mate. Just waiting for a fresh invasion at this point... any day now...

Aard

“There will probably have to be some level of fare increases unfortunately and there is going to have to be some reduction in services,” Mr Varadkar told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

I'd think that "some level" doesn't mean increases across the board. I hope (and I imagine) he's referin to cash fares for the most part.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

I'd think that "some level" doesn't mean increases across the board. I hope (and I imagine) he's referin to cash fares for the most part.

The Fare Increases mentioned by Leo V have already been well flagged by assorted flunkeys,mostly associated with the Integrated Ticketing gig.

This is merely Leo V raising the white flag,just before the off.

You can be pretty certain that the "Discounted" Smart Card Fare structure will equal the current Cash Fares.....This is what's known in the world of Irish High Finance as "Incentivization".....elsewhere in the World it's simply called a "Rip-Off".

The process has little to do with the current passenger fall-off or efficiency drives....these are totally seperate items in the current scenario.

T Corolla

I think the level of integration in the BE network is very poor. They need to have services feeding in and out of each other in order to survive. If the public transport networks in other countries were run similar to CIE they would also close down. For example the Dublin-Galway-Sligo-Ballina-Westport is so badly organised. One change would be to run the Dublin-Galway services non stop and use the local commuter routes for all stops in between on peak services. The Dublin-Sligo is a four hour journey this is no way attractive to customers. They need to make this service non stop to Mullingar at all times and complete it within an hour. The Dublin-Ballina services also a four hours should be non stop to Longford. They need to look at splitting/merging services at major urban hubs.

PseudoFamous

Right, in the last six months, Irish Rail have increased fares and reduced services, but still throw money at the WRC? Dig up those damned tracks and give a deserving line some decent service, CIE.

Cookie_Monster

Two more lines look like getting the chop, from the Indo:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/more-bus-and-rail-hikes-on-way-as-services-cut-cie-chief-warns-2803490.html

exerpt from article wrote:

However, further cuts in services are imminent. The Irish Independent has learnt that two rail routes -- the Limerick-Waterford and Limerick-Nenagh services -- could face the axe shortly.

dowlingm

The Tall Ships people must be relieved that the Clonmel-Waterford section is being kept open until their event is over.

Both lines have had significant works done on them lately (CWR on Nenagh and closing Tipperary loop plus the resignalling at the Junction). The LJ line might have also made a bit more money if somebody at IE had decided that scheduling the odd Limerick-Waterford through service might have been an idea, especially the first service of the day which functions solely as a feed to the Dublin-Cork line, not to mention trying to squeeze a bit more speed out of it.

In these circumstances though, where branch lines are clearly always going to be a burden on the Company, I blame Waterford and Limerick County Councils for not giving a hand. They should have been seeking to grade separate some of the crossings on their dime allowing the Company to contemplate longer service hours or Sunday services due to fewer gatekeepers or expensive CCTV 4 barrier retrofits, or offering to buy the train stations from IE and lease them back in exchange for the proceeds being spent on improvements. No doubt there will be ochon, ochoning from various town councillors at this report but if you're not a financial partner, you don't have a true say.

Assuming for a moment that the line is doomed to "maintenance", I think the least IE should be planning in Waterford is to join the Dublin and Limerick lines together where they currently diverge creating a dynamic loop, allowing an inbound train to pass an outbound - it would require some resignalling including retrofitting mini CTC signals on that stretch of the Limerick line in addition to the new junction tracks but Waterford is one of the few lines where significant additional service has been seen lately on both freight and passenger and where additional capacity might justify more again.

If both Nenagh and LJ-Waterford are suspended that basically frees up 2 x 2 x 2700 in Waterford (the spare 2700 is what's operating the Tall Ships Shuttle) plus at least 2 x 2700 in Limerick. All at a time when we are about to be deluged in DMUs from Korea. If only someone had thought of being this radical two years ago when the network was stretched to the limit because of the Mark 3 scrappage, the two damaged-in-transit DMUs and then the subsequent damage to 22037.

patrickbrophy18

Yesterday Mr Varadkar said there would have to be fare increases and reductions in services at CIE to counter losses and the drop in passenger numbers.

This pretty much says it all and sums up the attitude which the state-owned transport providers and their minister have towards the consumers. Basically, they are trying to keep their revenue consistent from previous years all while dis-improving services to consumers. Not only is this inconsiderate but, it is dishonest. It's like they are actively discouraging use of public transport as climate change strengthens it's grip on the planet. Car use is still one of the main contributors to this crisis. However, going by the attitudes of governmental transport providers, they appear to think they are exempt from making any effort in tackling climate change, despite the fact that we are rapidly running out of time. Furthermore, I am entirely convinced that laziness and short-sightedness are responsible for a decline in passengers numbers because the commuting public are almost always ignored when they give feedback.

A lot of the feedback that is given is constructive criticism that provides CIE with opportunities and a basis to increase their revenue streams with positive improvements to services. By that, I don't mean charging a higher price for the same or lower level of service. For instance, the Waterford-Rosslare Rail Link could have gained more revenue if the services where indeed tied in with the departure and arrival of ferries at Rosslare Europort instead of missing each other by mere minutes. If this doesn't suit train-drivers, why are they employed by Irish Rail in the first place? Currently, It seems as though they are more eager to finish their shift and go home instead of making life that bit easier for the commuting public. I know this from experience as I had finished a shift in Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt back in the summer of 2005 and I was walking up to Mackintosh Park to get the last bus (59) home. It was scheduled to leave at 10:55 PM and I was in plenty of time for it. Just as I am walking through the greenery adjacent to Mackintosh Park at 10:45, I notice the 59 leaving early. I tried to leg it to the bus and I missed it. As a result of this disgusting display of laziness, I ended up forking out €10 on a taxi to get home.

Anywho, back to the Rosslare Waterford Rail Link, I am also aware of the fact that the service was operated by a two-car 2700 DMU and that the passenger numbers weren't even enough to necessitate an entire one-car unit. As such, a 2750 would have been perfect for these journeys because it's a stand-alone unit. This would have halved the overheads on fuel and possibly train drivers as I have frequently seen more than one in the drivers cab.

dowlingm

The government does not derive revenue directly from incremental car use in places served by public transport. Local authorities do. They could implement park and ride schemes, perhaps from the car parks of closed IDA industrial estates in rural towns, on the back of increased parking charges making the overall cost of door-to-door public transport less.

Cookie_Monster

dowlingm wrote: »

The government does not derive revenue directly from incremental car use in places served by public transport. .

except it does.

so motor tax may go back to local authorities but:

fuel duty and vat go to central gov
VRT and VAT on new cars
VAT, corp tax, PRSI, USC and PAYE on servicing and maint providers
fines for various RTA breaches

all of which go up with increased car usage

dowlingm

Cookie - to be more specific - petrol tax etc. don't operate at higher rates in towns with good public transport than those who don't. Parking taxes on the other hand are free to be site specific. A town which operates park and ride and other services should feel entitled to devote less of its public realm to parking, and charge more for it, than a town with none.