ATH Knockout QF3: Mitchkoobski vs Diabhal Beag

Bounty Hunter

time for QF no.1 one and the man who eliminated me facing the guy who won by default in the 1st Rd.

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details, the 1st match's thread or if any are needed or check out last years competition.

QF Round: Pitch to Vince

Q. In one of the previous rounds Vince asked his ATH writers to give his Mr McMahon character one final feud before he puts it to rest. Now McMahon thinks its time for his on air replacement however and its up to you to pitch what he should do to him. The obvious choice is HHH but if he's your choice or not Vince wants a big angle for this so what would you do? and why is this better than your opponents plan?

good luck.

Diabhal Beag

Mitchkoobski

Obviously there is no logical choice other than Triple H.

How I would set it up is that Vince announces that he is retiring but he wants his legacy to live on. He sets up a battle royal on the same RAW to name two contenders. All the usuals come out and even Diabhal Beag makes a run in until he is knocked out by The Miz with the help of Waltersobchak. It's a 30 man battle royal but only 28 are competing until Triple H comes out. He cleans house and only R-Truth is left..............................until Taker's music hits. Everybody is shocked is isn't dead. He chokeslams R-Truth out of the ring and out two contenders are confirmed as Taker and Triple H.

The next week Vince announces the match will take place inside a steel cage at Summerslam. Both men respect each other and the week before Summerslam both men are at the contract signing. HHH turns heel and and low blows Taker and puts him through the table with a pedigree chum.

At Summerslam the match is brutal and there is more blood spurting out than Rosanna Davison's gee every 24th day. Taker is about to win and Vince interferes and smashes Taker with a chair. HHH pins Taker and our new leader's reign begins.

MitchKoobski

I'm gonna go with the expected answer and say HHH. In my opinion, you can't really pick anyone else as there isn't really anyone else as believable as a replacement as 'H. So here's my pitch to Vince.

From Summerslam onwards Cole gets increasingly annoyed at the anonymous GM. The messages are leading him to get stunner'd, chokeslammed and generally beat up. Fast forward to Survivor Series 2011. Madison Square Garden. Right before the main event the announcer's table has been demolished in the previous match. Cole and co are trying to clean up the mess and fix their seats when the anonymous GM prompter goes off. Cole ingores it while fixing the desk, so it goes off again and again and he still ignores it. Finally he goes to read it out and says "Blah blah blah GM message I'm tired of this crap." and sits down. It goes off again. King gets up to read it and it says "If you're not gonna do your job Cole, then I'm just gonna have to come out myself." Crowd cheers!

BAWAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW TIME TO PLAY THE GAME

HHH returns to Madison Square Garden and the WWE revealing himself to be the anonymous Raw GM. He tells Cole to sit down, shut up and do what he's told in future. He talks about how it was about time to reveal himself. He's been in charge of Raw for a while for a good reason, and that is that Vince hasn't got much time left with the company and he has been testing HHH as his predecessor. Vince then comes out to congratulate HHH on a job well done....*leans in with the mic*...so far. "You see Hunter I still do think you are the best man for the job, but it won't be that easy. You have to EARN it...." and Vince leaves on that ominous note. Cut to the main event and Cena is just about to succesfully defend the championship and HHH runs out during ref knockout. He lines up behind Cena to hit him with the belt, but ops not to in the end. He throws the title down and Cena wins clean. Afterwards HHH comes in to raise his hand, and Cena thanks him.....and then hits him with the belt. Crowd is shocked at Cena's actions. Vince runs out to check on HHH, but then stands up and hugs Cena and raises his hand. He shouts at HHH "YOU HAD ONE LAST TEST AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN DO THAT!". Cena's heel turn is complete.

The next night on Raw it's revealed HHH still has GM power so he wants revenge on Cena, but can't wrestle full-time while he has GM power. Cena comes out to the ramp explain he wouldn't be where he was today if it wasn't for Vince. He's the poster child for WWE, and Vince would do anything for him, just as he would do anything for Vince at the end of the day. You don't cross the boss. HHH books Cena against faces through TLC (doesn't matter who he beats tbh) up to the Rumble. Right before the Rumble HHH resigns the GM spot (which Vince quickly slots himself into), but not before entering himself into the Rumble as number 30. At RR we get a nice meet-up between The Rock who is visiting to keep an eye on Cena, and HHH who wants to win and challenge Cena. Rocky warns him that he has Cena at 'mania, no matter what happened to HHH.

HHH clears the ring at the Rumble bar Smackdowns top heel. Just as it looks like HHH is picking up steam to win BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG *thunder*.
Lights go out and Taker appears in the ring, eliminates HHH over the top rope and disappears. Smackdown heel wins the Rumble. Next night on Raw, now-Raw-superstar Taker comes out to explain he and Vince never really saw eye-to-eye, but Taker wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Vince. Vince comes out to explain that they worked together many years ago. and if it wasn't for Vince having him put in that grave at SS'05 then he wouldn't be The Phenom he is now. HHH comes out and says Taker has sold his soul to a business. He said they'd both do anything for the WWE, but Taker has gone to far and sold his soul to Vince. Taker doesn't respond.

During the run-up to Elimination Chamber, Cena defends the title against a RAW superstar, only to have Rocky interefere and cost him the title. Taker then defeats this superstar immediatly afterwards to claim the title (Vince has GM power to book it). Cena and Rock are left to have their little spat. Taker has to give this superstar their rematch at EC'11. Over these weeks we don't see Taker/HHH attacking each other at all. Theres mutual respect. HHH is disgusted with Taker, but respects everything he's done. Taker slowly starts to show remorse for his decision but won't admit it, and Vince is keeping him in line.

Elimination Chamber then takes place in Connecticut (althought it's Hartford, not Stanford unfortunately). The (close to) home of WWE headquarters. Vince accompanies Taker to the ring. HHH runs out and costs Taker the match and the title. Vince then sets up HHH vs Taker at Mania. The rematch. Vince respects HHH's accomplishments, but he's too weak. He can't run the company while pandering to the fans. But Vince does need a replacement, so he'll get his match and earn it. If HHH wins, he replaces Vince. If Taker wins, he goes 20-0 at 'mania. It's no longer about beating the streak. It's about beating the streak, AND taking over as Chairman of WWE (on screen nudge nudge wink wink). HHH's future is in jeopardy.

HHH and Taker beat ten tonnes of **** out of each other during the match. Taker wins again. After a couple of minutes ovation, they both shake and hug with respect for each other. Vince comes out and shakes both their hands. He asks the crowd to give a round of applause for the winner Taker, and then for his replacement Hunter Hearst Hemsley. Taker leaves the ring after giving the one-knee salute, and Vince says "Up until right there, I still made the decisions. You earned it. Congratulations."

Edit: As for my opponent's argument, I find it highly unlikely as there is no way WWE can afford Diabhal Beag for one Battle Royal, let alone Waltersobchak.

Diabhal Beag

Mitchkoobski

First off I really enjoyed reading that and I'm going to have to be real nit-picky.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

I'm gonna go with the expected answer and say HHH. In my opinion, you can't really pick anyone else as there isn't really anyone else as believable as a replacement as 'H. So here's my pitch to Vince.

From Summerslam onwards Cole gets increasingly annoyed at the anonymous GM. The messages are leading him to get stunner'd, chokeslammed and generally beat up. Fast forward to Survivor Series 2011. Madison Square Garden. Right before the main event the announcer's table has been demolished in the previous match. Cole and co are trying to clean up the mess and fix their seats when the anonymous GM prompter goes off. Cole ingores it while fixing the desk, so it goes off again and again and he still ignores it. Finally he goes to read it out and says "Blah blah blah GM message I'm tired of this crap." and sits down. It goes off again. King gets up to read it and it says "If you're not gonna do your job Cole, then I'm just gonna have to come out myself." Crowd cheers!

BAWAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW TIME TO PLAY THE GAME

So there was no announcement that the GM was going to reveal himself? In an age where WWE does everything for ratings this is one storyline they still have going for them. Personally I think that should be used as a ratings ploy. What I would have done is when Cole refuses to read the email I would have said the next email revealed the GM (Tripster) would be live next week.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

HHH returns to Madison Square Garden and the WWE revealing himself to be the anonymous Raw GM. He tells Cole to sit down, shut up and do what he's told in future. He talks about how it was about time to reveal himself. He's been in charge of Raw for a while for a good reason, and that is that Vince hasn't got much time left with the company and he has been testing HHH as his predecessor. Vince then comes out to congratulate HHH on a job well done....*leans in with the mic*...so far. "You see Hunter I still do think you are the best man for the job, but it won't be that easy. You have to EARN it...." and Vince leaves on that ominous note. Cut to the main event and Cena is just about to succesfully defend the championship and HHH runs out during ref knockout. He lines up behind Cena to hit him with the belt, but ops not to in the end. He throws the title down and Cena wins clean. Afterwards HHH comes in to raise his hand, and Cena thanks him.....and then hits him with the belt. Crowd is shocked at Cena's actions. Vince runs out to check on HHH, but then stands up and hugs Cena and raises his hand. He shouts at HHH "YOU HAD ONE LAST TEST AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN DO THAT!". Cena's heel turn is complete.

So Cena turns heel too. I dunno. I would have Cena turning heel for his angle pre-Mania with the Rock and I'd have kept Rock-Cena and this angle seperate as it lessens the importance of their feud that is already booked.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

The next night on Raw it's revealed HHH still has GM power so he wants revenge on Cena, but can't wrestle full-time while he has GM power. Cena comes out to the ramp explain he wouldn't be where he was today if it wasn't for Vince. He's the poster child for WWE, and Vince would do anything for him, just as he would do anything for Vince at the end of the day. You don't cross the boss. HHH books Cena against faces through TLC (doesn't matter who he beats tbh) up to the Rumble. Right before the Rumble HHH resigns the GM spot (which Vince quickly slots himself into), but not before entering himself into the Rumble as number 30. At RR we get a nice meet-up between The Rock who is visiting to keep an eye on Cena, and HHH who wants to win and challenge Cena. Rocky warns him that he has Cena at 'mania, no matter what happened to HHH.

I don't think there is any real need to have HHH and Rock show animosity. They are the two faces and should be doing as much as possible to help each.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

HHH clears the ring at the Rumble bar Smackdowns top heel. Just as it looks like HHH is picking up steam to win BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG *thunder*.
Lights go out and Taker appears in the ring, eliminates HHH over the top rope and disappears. Smackdown heel wins the Rumble. Next night on Raw, now-Raw-superstar Taker comes out to explain he and Vince never really saw eye-to-eye, but Taker wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for Vince. Vince comes out to explain that they worked together many years ago. and if it wasn't for Vince having him put in that grave at SS'05 then he wouldn't be The Phenom he is now. HHH comes out and says Taker has sold his soul to a business. He said they'd both do anything for the WWE, but Taker has gone to far and sold his soul to Vince. Taker doesn't respond.

I personally would have mentioned in this that should Taker beat HHH he would be made GM as Taker feels he has one last match in him at Mania. Making the match even more significant. Two old hounds vying for one last glory.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

During the run-up to Elimination Chamber, Cena defends the title against a RAW superstar, only to have Rocky interefere and cost him the title. Taker then defeats this superstar immediatly afterwards to claim the title (Vince has GM power to book it). Cena and Rock are left to have their little spat. Taker has to give this superstar their rematch at EC'11. Over these weeks we don't see Taker/HHH attacking each other at all. Theres mutual respect. HHH is disgusted with Taker, but respects everything he's done. Taker slowly starts to show remorse for his decision but won't admit it, and Vince is keeping him in line.

I wouldn't have taken the title off Cena. I would have kept the belt on him to keep Rock-Cena for the WWE title.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Elimination Chamber then takes place in Connecticut (althought it's Hartford, not Stanford unfortunately). The (close to) home of WWE headquarters. Vince accompanies Taker to the ring. HHH runs out and costs Taker the match and the title. Vince then sets up HHH vs Taker at Mania. The rematch. Vince respects HHH's accomplishments, but he's too weak. He can't run the company while pandering to the fans. But Vince does need a replacement, so he'll get his match and earn it. If HHH wins, he replaces Vince. If Taker wins, he goes 20-0 at 'mania. It's no longer about beating the streak. It's about beating the streak, AND taking over as Chairman of WWE (on screen nudge nudge wink wink). HHH's future is in jeopardy.

What you've done here is the one thing I definitely would have steered clear of. Breaking the streak. It's what seperates Taker from the crowd and HHH has lost twice at Mania to Taker. There would be no reason for Taker to ever lose his streak now. Nothing good could come out of it as nobody would believe HHH would beat the streak.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

HHH and Taker beat ten tonnes of **** out of each other during the match. Taker wins again. After a couple of minutes ovation, they both shake and hug with respect for each other. Vince comes out and shakes both their hands. He asks the crowd to give a round of applause for the winner Taker, and then for his replacement Hunter Hearst Hemsley. Taker leaves the ring after giving the one-knee salute, and Vince says "Up until right there, I still made the decisions. You earned it. Congratulations."

So HHH loses the match but still gets the role. What did Taker get out of this feud? With everything supposedly on the line HHH lost but still won.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Edit: As for my opponent's argument, I find it highly unlikely as there is no way WWE can afford Diabhal Beag for one Battle Royal, let alone Waltersobchak.

Here is something we can both agree on :pac:

MitchKoobski

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

First off I really enjoyed reading that and I'm going to have to be real nit-picky.

So there was no announcement that the GM was going to reveal himself? In an age where WWE does everything for ratings this is one storyline they still have going for them. Personally I think that should be used as a ratings ploy. What I would have done is when Cole refuses to read the email I would have said the next email revealed the GM (Tripster) would be live next week.

Vince doesn't like elimination matches anymore, so something is gonna be needed to make Survivor Series memorable. It's gonna be in Madison Square Garden so I felt it would be the best place to both reveal the GM, give Cena his heel turn AND start the angle.

So Cena turns heel too. I dunno. I would have Cena turning heel for his angle pre-Mania with the Rock and I'd have kept Rock-Cena and this angle seperate as it lessens the importance of their feud that is already booked.

Cena needs something BIG to turn heel on for him to go off with the Rock then. That feud won't get into full swing until pre-mania, post-rumble, but Cena needs to be either heel or hated by then so I felt best to slot it in here as part of the pitch to Vince.

I don't think there is any real need to have HHH and Rock show animosity. They are the two faces and should be doing as much as possible to help each.

Purely fan service. I don't intend for animosity, just a friendly "Don't get in my way, I won't get in yours." These two were never allies.

I personally would have mentioned in this that should Taker beat HHH he would be made GM as Taker feels he has one last match in him at Mania. Making the match even more significant. Two old hounds vying for one last glory.

A big fat NO. Taker as GM? Taker booking matches? Not even remotely believable. That stipulation would jsut make it blatantly obvious that HHH was going to win.

I wouldn't have taken the title off Cena. I would have kept the belt on him to keep Rock-Cena for the WWE title.

Neither of these matches need the title to be relevant at Wrestlemania, leave the titles for two other matches where they can help elevate someone else.

What you've done here is the one thing I definitely would have steered clear of. Breaking the streak. It's what seperates Taker from the crowd and HHH has lost twice at Mania to Taker. There would be no reason for Taker to ever lose his streak now. Nothing good could come out of it as nobody would believe HHH would beat the streak.

The idea is that HHH needs to break the streak as proof to Vince he can take over and get things done. It's his final test, and the one he's never been able to conquer. That's the selling point. The fans are desperate for HHH to take over, but he can't until he breaks The Undertaker's streak. Fans are torn between wanting the Undertaker to go for a milestone 20-0 and wanting HHH to take over. However, Undertaker has very little left in him. It's entirely believable that he would want to hit that 20-0 before leaving.
And according to 'WWE Universe' lore, HHH has only lost to Undertaker once, last year. So while it's blatantly obvious to all of us that WM17 happened, if this angle did happen they would ignore it again.

So HHH loses the match but still gets the role. What did Taker get out of this feud? With everything supposedly on the line HHH lost but still won.

The idea is that HHH goes all out to take over from Vince. HHH's next step is to run WWE. He's done everything else, except beat Taker. Taker wins and gets his 20-0, and tbh we can all assume he's gone after that. He gets a short title run out of it, he gets one last epic match with HHH and his last act as The Phenom of the WWE is to beat the future owner of WWE and go 20 and 0 at Wrestlemania. HHH doesn't break the streak, but he's shown so much determination and....wait for it....RUTHLESS AGRESSION....that Vince relents and sees that his son-in-law is the man for the job and is willing to go all out to prove it to everyone that he is the best man for the job.

Diabhal Beag

Mitchkoobski

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Vince doesn't like elimination matches anymore, so something is gonna be needed to make Survivor Series memorable. It's gonna be in Madison Square Garden so I felt it would be the best place to both reveal the GM, give Cena his heel turn AND start the angle.

You have to build to this stuff especially if it will be such a big announcement. Kinda throwing your eggs in the same basket.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Cena needs something BIG to turn heel on for him to go off with the Rock then. That feud won't get into full swing until pre-mania, post-rumble, but Cena needs to be either heel or hated by then so I felt best to slot it in here as part of the pitch to Vince.

He will be hated and booed at Mania regardless.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Purely fan service. I don't intend for animosity, just a friendly "Don't get in my way, I won't get in yours." These two were never allies.

It's teasing another heel turn though that won't be paid off.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

A big fat NO. Taker as GM? Taker booking matches? Not even remotely believable. That stipulation would jsut make it blatantly obvious that HHH was going to win.

So the plan is Taker has everything to lose and nothing to gain. You've practically spoiled your own match here. HHH needs a big win in this feud and you're basically saying: "Hey Taker beat you twice consecutively at Mania. Here's your big reward". I've covered this up by not using the match at Mania so the streak isn't wasted and can be used again.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Neither of these matches need the title to be relevant at Wrestlemania, leave the titles for two other matches where they can help elevate someone else.

They won't. Cena pretty much confirmed that at Mania it will be a WWE Title match.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

The idea is that HHH needs to break the streak as proof to Vince he can take over and get things done. It's his final test, and the one he's never been able to conquer. That's the selling point. The fans are desperate for HHH to take over, but he can't until he breaks The Undertaker's streak. Fans are torn between wanting the Undertaker to go for a milestone 20-0 and wanting HHH to take over.

You've booked Taker as the heel in this match. The fact that you need people to be torn is proof that what you booked won't make a difference.

MitchKoobski wrote: »

The idea is that HHH goes all out to take over from Vince. HHH's next step is to run WWE. He's done everything else, except beat Taker. Taker wins and gets his 20-0, and tbh we can all assume he's gone after that. He gets a short title run out of it, he gets one last epic match with HHH and his last act as The Phenom of the WWE is to beat the future owner of WWE and go 20 and 0 at Wrestlemania. HHH doesn't break the streak, but he's shown so much determination and....wait for it....RUTHLESS AGRESSION....that Vince relents and sees that his son-in-law is the man for the job and is willing to go all out to prove it to everyone that he is the best man for the job.

So HHH has been beaten throughout the feud and he gets the big pay-off. It just doesn't work out IMO. If he won the Rumble sure but he didn't.


The way I've worked this out is the pay-off is that HHH goes from face to heel. Face GM's are very one dimensional IMO and we all know tripster is a great heel. I've also used it at Summerslam so it won't overshadow Cena-Rock which is a year build from last Mania to next. You can also give HHH the win and not end the streak. HHH needs the win at the end of the feud if he is going to get the big prize and you have Taker in there to give some belief that it won't be HHH he gets the job. He also turns heel on Taker who would get the bigger reaction anyway.

Cheers for reading guys and whoever wins this will deserve it.

MitchKoobski

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

You have to build to this stuff especially if it will be such a big announcement. Kinda throwing your eggs in the same basket.

Cole becoming more and more frustrated with the GM's lackey role is teasing the reveal. It's not throwing all the eggs in one basket, as they each compliment one another and can help further at least two storylines e.g. Cena turning heel

He will be hated and booed at Mania regardless.

If every single person in the building is 18 and over, good luck with that happening.They need a reason for the kids to boo him, and who better for him to turn on (other than maybe Rey) than the guy who's been HBK's best buddy for years and one of the biggest faces of the last 4 years.

It's teasing another heel turn though that won't be paid off.

No it isn't! It's simply the two of them running into each other backstage, a little nod to the Attitude era for the older fans and they comment on their beef with Cena.

So the plan is Taker has everything to lose and nothing to gain. You've practically spoiled your own match here. HHH needs a big win in this feud and you're basically saying: "Hey Taker beat you twice consecutively at Mania. Here's your big reward". I've covered this up by not using the match at Mania so the streak isn't wasted and can be used again.

Taker got the title from the deal with Vince, you must have glanced over that part. Vince wants to test HHH because he doesnt think hes capable of running the company. HHH gives his all to beat Taker, and it proves to Vince he is willing to do anything.
There's no way in hell Taker will would be healthy for a match at Summerslam so using that match as your pitch just won't work.

They won't. Cena pretty much confirmed that at Mania it will be a WWE Title match.

That remains to be seen. Plans can easily change, and the whole point of pitching it is to ginve Vince an idea of what to do. If you walk in going "look i KNOW Cena said he'd have the title" then he'll confirm it and walk you back out.

You've booked Taker as the heel in this match. The fact that you need people to be torn is proof that what you booked won't make a difference.

The whole idea is that people are torn. ANY match is better when the fans are cheering for both sides in my opinion. What I booked gives them a viable reason to fight again.

So HHH has been beaten throughout the feud and he gets the big pay-off. It just doesn't work out IMO. If he won the Rumble sure but he didn't.

HHH is past winning the Rumble, giving that to him now is a waste.

The way I've worked this out is the pay-off is that HHH goes from face to heel. Face GM's are very one dimensional IMO and we all know tripster is a great heel. I've also used it at Summerslam so it won't overshadow Cena-Rock which is a year build from last Mania to next. You can also give HHH the win and not end the streak. HHH needs the win at the end of the feud if he is going to get the big prize and you have Taker in there to give some belief that it won't be HHH he gets the job. He also turns heel on Taker who would get the bigger reaction anyway.

I don't believe HHH can realistically be a heel anymore. He'd be gone into HBK heel mode. He's doing all the heel tactics but they'll still cheer for him. Yes he WAS a great heel, but as much as we hope and prey he'll never hit that heel success again. We're already expecting Rocky to show up at Summerslam in some way, and you'll only be giving two months of a build. Something like Vince standing down deserves more than two months.

My opponent's suggestion is:
Battle Royal -> Hell turn right before PPV during contract signing -> Cage match.
The suggestion that Taker's character would be a contender for Vince McMahon's replacement is laughable. You would have to kill Taker's character and put him back into a t-shirt and jeans to make people even begin to believe he might become GM. If you walked into Vince's office and suggested a 30-man Battle Royal on TV he'd tell you to get out, ESPECIALLY a Battle Royal that has TWO WINNERS.

I've pitched a full 4-month storyline that helps HHH prove himself worthy as a replacement, gives Vince a great send-off, helps set up the Cena heel-turn in preparation for Cena/Rocky AND gives us a Taker-HHH rematch.

Thanks for reading, and I hope ye enjoyed it. Took me about 4 cups of tea to get through it.

Bounty Hunter

not as many votes this time but they all count as a single ones puts Mitch into the Semis, well played DB

MitchKoobski

Good debate Diabhal!

Was expecting more votes to be cast tbh.

Diabhal Beag

Mitchkoobski

First off congrats to Mitch. Really enjoyed the debate.



But secondly WTF happened here guys? That's a shocking amount of votes in fairness. What went wrong?