A few questions re hydration, food etc while running

get on your bike

Hi,

What do you do while running regarding hydration and re fuelling. I'm guessing that not much required up to 10 ks but after that water/ energy drinks, again I'm guessing something would be required.

From cycling experience if you don't re fuel the "BONK" will be round the corner.

So basically just asking what's the norm for this. I guess carrying stuff in your hand is a pain in the ........

Cheers for your thoughts

Whitehawk

wheather im cycling (MTB) or just running up a MT. i like to "re fuel" just keeps me going well and also sets me up for the next day so i can keep going. i buy nutrition stuff from some sites like this - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=2322

the Gels you see there are light only around 40 - 30grams and fit in a small pocket etc

Whitehawk

i have never used this site but by chance this was just showen to me so though id send you the link - http://www.timetorun.co.uk/index.php?page=shop&shop_cat_id=211

Bloody Nipples

I can only speak from personal experience, but if I hydrate and eat beforehand I'm ok to do a 20 mile long run without any gels or water.

Whitehawk

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

I can only speak from personal experience, but if I hydrate and eat beforehand I'm ok to do a 20 mile long run without any gels or water.

fair enough about no gels but no water:eek: thats not good for you! waters gives your body energy its that simple science has done loads of tests on this and showen how much better the body will react to having water rather then not having water.
one should hydrate before, during and after exercise in all cases!

RayCun

It depends on how fast you're running, and how experienced you are as well. I find that I go further without water now than I did last year, for example.
There are different schools of thought on taking gels on training runs - some argue that you should take gels to keep your energy levels up through the run, and complete your run in good shape. Others say you should let your carb levels deplete on training runs, so your body gets more efficient at burning fat and running on low carbs. I would say that, starting out at least, you're better off refueling on your runs.

Gels are small enough, you can carry them in a belt, arm-wallet, pocket, or pin to your clothes. Water you can carry in a camelback, bottles on your waist/in your hand, stash on your route in advance, or bring some money and stop into a shop. Or run in loops that bring you back to your house/car regularly and refuel on each loop.

ThePiedPiper

Generally, I'll go anywhere up to 13 miles without bringing any drink with me. Over that though, I'll have a bottle of isotonic sports drink.

Regarding gels, I find they're not necessary on any run less than 17 miles. If your body is well trained, you'll have between 17-20 miles worth of energy stores in the form of glycogen in your body. Again, the only reason I'd bother taking gels with me on any training run over 17 miles would be to get my body used to taking them for when they'd be needed in a long distance race.

If at the moment, you're just doing 10k runs, unless it is very hot, then there's really no need to take any water or fuel with you. Performance will not suffer, but there may be a placebo affect for you.

This isn't to say that you don't lose a large amount of water from your body. I find from experience that I lose about 100ml per mile (depending on the outside temperature) so if I do a 10 mile run, I need to drink at least a litre of water to get properly hydrated again.

get on your bike

Cheers for responses lads. Interesting to hear to different outlooks on it. I can run up to an hour and twenty to date at good pace and hilly. Not sure how long but I'm guessing 12 or 15 ks. Thing is any further and I was thinking if re hydrating and bars etc fir this

RayCun

get on your bike wrote: »

Thing is any further and I was thinking if re hydrating and bars etc fir this

Runners usually use gels rather than bars. Easier to swallow while running.

Enduro

I train for very long distances. I can easily manage a 3 hour LSR (Long Slow Run) without any food or water. I don't bring food or water with me on training runs. Only in blistering heat (twice ever) have I had a dehydration problem. I seem to require far less water in races than other people, even (especially perhaps) in very hot conditions. IMHO there is a connection there!

ger664

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

I can only speak from personal experience, but if I hydrate and eat beforehand I'm ok to do a 20 mile long run without any gels or water.

Whatever about gels, personal I bonk after 2½ hours (17-18 miles).
Not hydrating on this length of a run is reducing the effectiveness of training run due to loss of performance.

TFBubendorfer

ger664 wrote: »

Not hydrating on this length of a run is reducing the effectiveness of training run due to loss of performance.

You cannot generalize just like that. I regularly go over 20 miles without water and I do not slow down towards the end.

I make sure I'm well hydrated before going out though, and I run in the early morning when the temperatures are cool.

TFBubendorfer

Whitehawk wrote: »

waters gives your body energy its that simple science has done loads of tests on this!

And just how much energy is in water, according to all those scientific tests?

shels4ever

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

And just how much energy is in water, according to all those scientific tests?

and I was thinking there are 0kcals in water, maybe hydropower is the way to go

BrokenMan

Depends a lot on the rate you sweat as well. I sweat a hell of a lot even on a recovery run and from experience anything over 10 miles I need to bring some water with me.

Everyone is going to be different and its probably something you need to experiment with.

kingQuez

For me I can do up to 30k comfortably without gels or water, but I do get dehydrated if its hot or im giving it a bit of effort, and that leads to a longer recovery. I think i can take or leave the gels, but usually use them on longish stuff just to get used to them for longer races (I've only bonked a couple of times, and if anything thats been when my general nutrition was a bit lacking). I'd say play around and see what works for you!

get on your bike

Is it the norm that you drink more on the bike than running or is it just inconvenient to take bottles while running

ger664

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

You cannot generalize just like that. I regularly go over 20 miles without water and I do not slow down towards the end.

Point taken. How long you can go without water will vary from person to person depending on their fitness levels training etc.

However there has been several replies in this thread from people stating they can go 20 miles or whatever without water. I do not think that this is the norm and could be misleading to a lurker/novice or OP who maybe new to long distance running and IMO will require hydration for runs of this length.

woodchopper

Enduro wrote: »

I train for very long distances. I can easily manage a 3 hour LSR (Long Slow Run) without any food or water. I don't bring food or water with me on training runs. Only in blistering heat (twice ever) have I had a dehydration problem. I seem to require far less water in races than other people, even (especially perhaps) in very hot conditions. IMHO there is a connection there!

Do you beat all of these guys? That is the important question. If not then hydrate, hydrate, hytrate. One should bring water for runs over 90 minutes. Although nothing wrong with sipping water after an hour or so. There is nothing TOUGH about not drinking water. The TOUGHEST athletes are the ones that win.

Enduro

woodchopper wrote: »

Do you beat all of these guys? That is the important question. If not then hydrate, hydrate, hytrate. One should bring water for runs over 90 minutes. Although nothing wrong with sipping water after an hour or so. There is nothing TOUGH about not drinking water. The TOUGHEST athletes are the ones that win.

Generally yes, I usually beat these guys. Quite often not having to hydrate frequently plays a part in that too.

The last marathon I did I was leading coming into the first aid station, about 10km in, with 2 or 3 guys right behind me. I ran straight through without taking any liquids... because I know I'm well able to from training. That leaves my immediate persuers with a big problem if they're in the "hydrate, hydrate, hydate" school of thought... slow to get water and let me away (not very good from a competive point of view), or stick with me and take a risk. Now I'm in the position before we even get there that I know I'm going to get one over on them in the psychological aspect of racing. Win win for me. (Two followed without stopping). Same again at halfway, with only one person remaining to drop. I was on my own out in front 10 minutes later. Now I don't know for sure how big a role the ability not to have to stop for water played there, but I would imagine chasing someone who accelerates through aid stations without stopping must be pretty unnerving for anyone on a more conventional hydration strategy.

I won that marathon, which in your world makes me a TOUGH (your emphasis) athlete, so listen and learn!

As it happens I wouldn't describe the ability to run without needing as much water as others as being tough. I would describe it as being an extremely useful attribute that can make a difference to race time and position.

The above anecdote is from an Irish race. When you get to hotter climates, it becomes an even more useful attribute for multiple reasons.

Bloody Nipples

woodchopper wrote: »

Do you beat all of these guys? That is the important question. If not then hydrate, hydrate, hytrate. One should bring water for runs over 90 minutes. Although nothing wrong with sipping water after an hour or so. There is nothing TOUGH about not drinking water. The TOUGHEST athletes are the ones that win.

I'm not a winning marathon runner by a LONG stretch. My PB is only 3.15 but once someone is well hydrated in advance, chugging water is just going to lead to a need to pee which can knock a minute or so off your time.
When I'm running I drink more as a distraction than any real need, if I can do a 20 mile long run at 7 min/mile the whole way then I don't really see not having water with me as inhibiting my ability to run.

Enduro

Just a follow up post. I'm involved in an email conversation elsewhere where the subject of race hydration and nutrition came up. A professional sports nutritionist who is also a highly successful distance runner himself gave the following info to a collection of international standard runners...

Re Hydration:

This is a very individual thing. There are no blanket recommendations. I know guys that can run for 3hrs without fluids, while others need litres.

So in terms of fluid requirements, you really have to work that out yourself. Simply urine colour and weight before and after a run will give you enough info to work it out.

So, in a nutsehll, anyone who tells you that everyone has to drink X amount of water over Y distance / Z time hasn't a clue. It is very much down to each individual.

My own theory is that each individual can also train themselves require less hyrdration. The body is a very adaptive machine. That's why we train in the first place!!

huskerdu

Enduro wrote: »

Just a follow up post. I'm involved in an email conversation elsewhere where the subject of race hydration and nutrition came up. A professional sports nutritionist who is also a highly successful distance runner himself gave the following info to a collection of international standard runners...



So, in a nutsehll, anyone who tells you that everyone has to drink X amount of water over Y distance / Z time hasn't a clue. It is very much down to each individual.

My own theory is that each individual can also train themselves require less hyrdration. The body is a very adaptive machine. That's why we train in the first place!!

I agree with this entirely.

The longest run I do is 20km, which takes me about 2 hours. As I have got faster and stronger over the last year and the length of my runs has increased, I have needed to take water less when running, not more, as I have gotten fitter and more able for it.

But, I know my limitations and they are my limitations not anyone elses.

I suffer in the heat whether I am running or not and even minor dehydration makes my blood pressure drop. If I need water on a long run on a warm day, I really need it.

az2wp0sye65487

Enduro wrote: »

Just a follow up post. I'm involved in an email conversation elsewhere where the subject of race hydration and nutrition came up. A professional sports nutritionist who is also a highly successful distance runner himself gave the following info to a collection of international standard runners...



So, in a nutsehll, anyone who tells you that everyone has to drink X amount of water over Y distance / Z time hasn't a clue. It is very much down to each individual.

My own theory is that each individual can also train themselves require less hyrdration. The body is a very adaptive machine. That's why we train in the first place!!

By no means am I anywhere even remotely close to that standard... but I often find that it depends how I'm feeling on the day.

When I first started running about a year & a half ago and was building my distance I used to pack in a load of water / energy drink / gels on a LSR (16 + km) or take plenty of water for anything over 10km... I quickly copped on.

I'd say it is partly the fact that I was taking WAY too much stuff in the first place, coupled with the fact that my endurance has increased also... but now I regularly run between 10 and 14km without the need for anything. If doing more that that then I might take a small bottle of water, nothing else.

So there has to be something to the fact that you can train your body to require less as your endurance/experience etc. increases.

Also, Fair Play to you Enduro on the achievements... when I first read that you can do a 3hr LSR with no food(fair enough).... but with no water! - I was just :eek::eek::eek:

anymore

I will do the occassional 16 mile run without gels or water for training effect and will never carry gels or water for any run of less than an hour.( And I probably wouldnt bother now on runs up to 90 mimutes)
On LSRs 20 miles) I will carry say 3 power bar gels and I am usually passing a shop at around ten mile mark and can buy water and.banana )
Maybe people ought to think of location of shops on any LSR they are doing rather than carrying water. In winter, I find on LSR, even 2o mile ones, my water requirements go way down.
As some have pointed out, each runner is different is different. I find out as I do more marathons and as my time gets better, I am inclined to use fewer gels - part of this is, I suspect, that fatigue justs makes less inclined to try to drink the gel and maybe this is not good.

anymore

Enduro wrote: »

Just a follow up post. I'm involved in an email conversation elsewhere where the subject of race hydration and nutrition came up. A professional sports nutritionist who is also a highly successful distance runner himself gave the following info to a collection of international standard runners...



So, in a nutsehll, anyone who tells you that everyone has to drink X amount of water over Y distance / Z time hasn't a clue. It is very much down to each individual.

My own theory is that each individual can also train themselves require less hyrdration. The body is a very adaptive machine. That's why we train in the first place!!

I suppose from a commonsense point of view, the weather alone will m ean even the same individual will have different water requirements on different runs.