Fein

nbrome

I've learned that fein is pronounced "hayne".
If a person were speaking Irish would he/she say "Shin Hayne" for the political party then? I've never heard it said that way on the news etc.

pog it

deleted; not sure if everything I wrote was 100% correct

An gal gréine

Newsreader Ailbhe Ó Monacháin always says "Sinn Hayne", but I have'nt noticed any others who do.

deise go deo

Is it not

Fein - fayne
Fhein - hayne

nbrome

I've been using "Learning Irish" and he just says it's pronounced "hayne". I've never actually seen it with an "h" as in "fhein" - I suppose there would be grammatical occasions for that?
Anyway, seeing as it seems to be something of an exception in pronunciation ("f" alone is usually pronounced "f", isn't it?) I just wondered about Sinn Fein.

Krusader

Definetly 'hayne' in the west(i would say it this way) ,but 'fayne' would be the standard way of saying it and munster i think

I've never heard 'hayne' in Sinn Féin before though

Aard

The only time it'd be "sinn héin" (my spelling, of course) for me would be in something like: "Rinneamar é sinn héin." (Not something I'd actually say, but I imagine that somebody somewhere would.)

However, it's always always written without a séimhiú no matter which way you pronounce it.

P. Breathnach

Crosáidí wrote: »

Definetly 'hayne' in the west(i would say it this way) ,but 'fayne' would be the standard way of saying it and munster i think

I've never heard 'hayne' in Sinn Féin before though

Mé "hayne", tú "hayne", iad "hayne", muid "hayne" &rl.
But sinn "fayne".

I don't think, except for referring to a political grouping, the expression sinn féin would be used in Connemara. It doesn't feel to me like an idiomatic phrase. I can't make a sentence in my head with it, except to refer to the political entity.

An gal gréine

Sinn seems to be losing out more and more to "muid" but is still to be found in a lot of the old songs and prayers. Maybe that's because it's harder to pronounce. Usually you'll hear it pronounced as "shin" by those not realising that the second "n" has a bearing. Anyway "muid" is easier to say.

dlofnep

I try to use 'sinn' as much as possible in conversation. I did get into the habit of using 'muid' alot from visiting Belfast and Derry because people would look at me funny if I said sinn, but I'm reverting back to sinn the last few months. It has to become automatic.

P. Breathnach

Reflect a little on what féin means. It has no exact cognate in English. You cannot say simply that it means self, because it doesn't mean self in the ordinary way that speakers of British English use the word self.

The typical Irish person would say that Rinne mé sin mé féin means I did that myself. But the speaker of British English would regard that as a Hibernicism, our way of saying I did that. The use of féin in Irish or -self in Hiberno-English is to add emphasis to the pronoun. We don't say Rinne mé sin; we add the emphasis by adding mé féin. It's a phrase used in a particular type of context, and it's something of a nonsense to use it without such a context.

nbrome

dlofnep wrote: »

I try to use 'sinn' as much as possible in conversation. I did get into the habit of using 'muid' alot from visiting Belfast and Derry because people would look at me funny if I said sinn,

I know that "muid" is used in Connacht and, reading the above, apparently also in Belfast and Derry. Which dialect do you speak, dlofnep? Is there one that that uses 'sinn' consistently, or is it slowly passing into history books?

dlofnep

nbrome wrote: »

I know that "muid" is used in Connacht and, reading the above, apparently also in Belfast and Derry. Which dialect do you speak, dlofnep? Is there one that that uses 'sinn' consistently, or is it slowly passing into history books?

Traditionally munster - but it's rare to hear it these days. I'm from munster.

Krusader

In school I was never taught to use 'muid', I never knew it existed until I starting learning Irish again, we always used the synthetic form of the verb

Bhíomar - We were
Táimid - We are
Beimid - We will be

muid / sinn:

Sinn is the older form and is probably predominantly used in Munster, (but known worldwide as in the party name Sinn Féin = Ourselves)
Muid is made up of the present tense verb suffix -imid (e.g. tuigimid = we understand);
Muid is used today more often than sinn and stems as a pronoun originally from Ulster.
In older grammar books[ 1 ] the use of muid was very much frowned upon, but without success.
Occassionally, muid is recommended as a subject form after analytical verb forms (e.g.: tuigeann muid thú = we understand you), sinn on the other hand to be used as the object form (e.g.: tuigeann tú sinn = you understand us). Muid appears still also as the object form.

[ 1 ] Graiméar na Gaedhilge leis na Bráithreachaibh Críostamhla, 1906:
in reference to muid: "On no account should this corruption be imitated by the student"

An gal gréine

nbrome wrote: »

I know that "muid" is used in Connacht and, reading the above, apparently also in Belfast and Derry. Which dialect do you speak, dlofnep? Is there one that that uses 'sinn' consistently, or is it slowly passing into history books?

Sinn is still to be heard in Munster. There's an enclave in Donegal called Baile na Finne, in the centre of the county, where they still use it too!

P. Breathnach

An gal gréine wrote: »

Sinn is still to be heard in Munster. There's an enclave in Donegal called Baile na Finne, in the centre of the county, where they still use it too!

Surely Baile na Sinne.

Enkidu

Crosáidí wrote: »

In school I was never taught to use 'muid', I never knew it existed until I starting learning Irish again, we always used the synthetic form of the verb

Really, how much old grammar did you use, I assume:

Do chonac na húill do bhíos ag na fearaibh.

Would be a bit extreme! Did you only use the synthetic forms for the 1 person plural?

Krusader

Standard grammar, yeah only synthetic forms

Enkidu

Crosáidí wrote: »

Standard grammar, yeah only synthetic forms

Cool!, so stuff like Chuireas for Chuir mé?

(Sorry, I'm a bit of a grammar geek!)

Krusader

only synthetic forms in the 1st person plural