galway hurling decline - why?

powerofnow

any ideas on why galway hurlers fail so often
do we need an 80's type team again - i.e muck rakers, farmers, and road diggers togging out in maroon - hard majors smoking men like lynskey and sylvie linnane. today's team are too soft - too many teachers and professionals

premierstone

Decline from what, Galway were never exactly a super-power of Hurling, yes they had a very successfull team in the mid to late eighties, but that was the exception not the norm, as for Lynskey and Linnane they wouldnt last 2 minutes on a field today, theres lads in jail for less than what those two did on the field.

Occupations are completely irrelevant with the amount of physical training and conditioning sone now and infact a non manual occupation would be a considerable advantage to a top intercounty player.

kildare9

premierstone wrote: »

Occupations are completely irrelevant with the amount of physical training and conditioning sone now and infact a non manual occupation would be a considerable advantage to a top intercounty player.

I would agree with Premierstone, occupations has nothing to do with them playing bad or being 'soft'. Like what a lot of people are saying, its hard to put your finger on the exact problem. That performance against Dublin the last day was way off their performance against Tipp last year. Nowhere near as sharp looking. Maybe the training isn't what it used to be, who knows. I'm sure we'll see a changed attitude from the Galway team when they take on Clare on the 2nd of July.

derealbadger

premierstone wrote: »

Decline from what, Galway were never exactly a super-power of Hurling, yes they had a very successfull team in the mid to late eighties, but that was the exception not the norm, as for Lynskey and Linnane they wouldnt last 2 minutes on a field today, theres lads in jail for less than what those two did on the field.

Occupations are completely irrelevant with the amount of physical training and conditioning sone now and infact a non manual occupation would be a considerable advantage to a top intercounty player.

in all fairness Tipp weren't exactly a group of alter boys back then either

derealbadger

Galway Training
« Thread Started Today at 1:16am »
i attended the training tonight (tuesday) in kenny park which had high hopes of seein some promise and some good ball drills an tactical awareness from the team and coaching staff for the next 2 hours i was shocked to see wat went on(yes the training session lasted 2 hrs).here is the time frame on how training went:

7.30 lads out on pitch pucking ball back an over

7.35 trainer blows the whistle an the players jog in (im nearly sure it wasnt john d kearney training them)

7.40 lads go into a triangle ball drill hittin the ball back an over in 3s to each other

7.45 2 players jog out of dressing room 15minutes late

7.50 yet another player jogs out of dressing room 20 minutes late (now turning into a farce issues wit discipline an time keeping)

7.55 players break off an big a slight warm up for 5 mins with some players miles behind others during the warm up

8.05 mcintyre calls players into a huddle an starts to f an blind them out of it for at least 10 minutes going thru each an every player during this u cud see him put his hand in the air an try and tell them how to catch a ball (schoolboy stuff)

8.15 match starts(yes a match)and a 13 a side match at that with only a two man forward line on each side,wat happens after this is just farcical

8.30 with mc intyre reffing the match an not blowing for one foul except for ffing an blindin callinan out of it for not puttin 2 hands on the hurl picking up the ball he calls them in again where he starts to roar an shout abuse for 5 minutes at the players.

8.45calls them in again an starts roarin more abuse this time being heard alll over the town he was so loud.

8.50 match starts again with players tryin to walk the ball into the goals with onal barry layin midfield he walks straight thru the defence an scores 2 goals jc tapping over a few unmarked easy chances and hayes looking very off the boil with a bit unwanted weight an afraid to take on his marker.

9.00 another rollicking off mcintyre for another 5 minutes and break out again for last quarter of the match,

9.10 players come in where john mc calls them into a tight huddle no shoutin this time (suprised) they then break off for running an a light warm down (very little stretching)

The session finished at half 9 2 hours after the start with players when the whistle was blown walking into the huddle not even jogging(not all players but some)where the trainer started shoutin hurry up i haven all nite..This followed by countless bollicking off mc intyre for who for some reason was reffing a match that he should been looking on at to see who was playing well.For a county team to play a 13 a side match after playin a championship match on saturday is disgracefull,there was no tempo no blowing for frees acres of space players tryin to walk the ball into the net and only about 10 points scored and about 5 goals when there was so much space,some of the players looked disillusioned wit the set up as there was no stability an f all discipline,dunno wat selectors do there cause all they did the whole nite was stood up with hands on hips and wit the occasional roar from connolly about PRIDE in the jersey.

The way mcintyre was tryin to teach them how to catch a high ball was roaring at callinan telling him to lump the high ball down on top of the half forwards throughout the whole match there was one high ball caught in about 60 minutes of hurling,with training going on for 2 hours.After seeing this it leads me to believe that the current management has not a clue wat they are at and the lad training galway shud be training under 12s not the galway senior hurling team.Farcical stuff i do hope we will beat clare but judging on tonights training theres not a lot of hope if we do beat them i believe it will be the players ability an belief an not the managements training that will get us thru it......

Gaillimh Abu



Read more: http://ghurlingadmin.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=1122#ixzz1PiAKkase

FlutterinBantam

powerofnow wrote: »

any ideas on why galway hurlers fail so often
do we need an 80's type team again - i.e muck rakers, farmers, and road diggers togging out in maroon - hard majors smoking men like lynskey and sylvie linnane. today's team are too soft - too many teachers and professionals

No!

But we need the equivalent of the player in today's standards.

In my opinion the tactics are poor, no bite in attack, expecting too much of Canning.

Could raise their game against Clare and that would be in keeping with past years i.e. to have one 'big game' and then fade away.

premierstone

derealbadger wrote: »

in all fairness Tipp weren't exactly a group of alter boys back then either

Nor did I claim otherwise badger, this thread is specifically about Galway, what that has to do with former Tipp players is beyond me, the OP mentioned those two players in particular and I gave my opinion on why that was not a road to go down again as the game has changed alot since then.

premierstone

derealbadger wrote: »

Galway Training
« Thread Started Today at 1:16am »
i attended the training tonight (tuesday) in kenny park which had high hopes of seein some promise and some good ball drills an tactical awareness from the team and coaching staff for the next 2 hours i was shocked to see wat went on(yes the training session lasted 2 hrs).here is the time frame on how training went:

7.30 lads out on pitch pucking ball back an over

7.35 trainer blows the whistle an the players jog in (im nearly sure it wasnt john d kearney training them)

7.40 lads go into a triangle ball drill hittin the ball back an over in 3s to each other

7.45 2 players jog out of dressing room 15minutes late

7.50 yet another player jogs out of dressing room 20 minutes late (now turning into a farce issues wit discipline an time keeping)

7.55 players break off an big a slight warm up for 5 mins with some players miles behind others during the warm up

8.05 mcintyre calls players into a huddle an starts to f an blind them out of it for at least 10 minutes going thru each an every player during this u cud see him put his hand in the air an try and tell them how to catch a ball (schoolboy stuff)

8.15 match starts(yes a match)and a 13 a side match at that with only a two man forward line on each side,wat happens after this is just farcical

8.30 with mc intyre reffing the match an not blowing for one foul except for ffing an blindin callinan out of it for not puttin 2 hands on the hurl picking up the ball he calls them in again where he starts to roar an shout abuse for 5 minutes at the players.

8.45calls them in again an starts roarin more abuse this time being heard alll over the town he was so loud.

8.50 match starts again with players tryin to walk the ball into the goals with onal barry layin midfield he walks straight thru the defence an scores 2 goals jc tapping over a few unmarked easy chances and hayes looking very off the boil with a bit unwanted weight an afraid to take on his marker.

9.00 another rollicking off mcintyre for another 5 minutes and break out again for last quarter of the match,

9.10 players come in where john mc calls them into a tight huddle no shoutin this time (suprised) they then break off for running an a light warm down (very little stretching)

The session finished at half 9 2 hours after the start with players when the whistle was blown walking into the huddle not even jogging(not all players but some)where the trainer started shoutin hurry up i haven all nite..This followed by countless bollicking off mc intyre for who for some reason was reffing a match that he should been looking on at to see who was playing well.For a county team to play a 13 a side match after playin a championship match on saturday is disgracefull,there was no tempo no blowing for frees acres of space players tryin to walk the ball into the net and only about 10 points scored and about 5 goals when there was so much space,some of the players looked disillusioned wit the set up as there was no stability an f all discipline,dunno wat selectors do there cause all they did the whole nite was stood up with hands on hips and wit the occasional roar from connolly about PRIDE in the jersey.

The way mcintyre was tryin to teach them how to catch a high ball was roaring at callinan telling him to lump the high ball down on top of the half forwards throughout the whole match there was one high ball caught in about 60 minutes of hurling,with training going on for 2 hours.After seeing this it leads me to believe that the current management has not a clue wat they are at and the lad training galway shud be training under 12s not the galway senior hurling team.Farcical stuff i do hope we will beat clare but judging on tonights training theres not a lot of hope if we do beat them i believe it will be the players ability an belief an not the managements training that will get us thru it......

Gaillimh Abu



Read more: http://ghurlingadmin.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=1122#ixzz1PiAKkase

All the real physical and hard training is done at this stage, I wouldnt proclaim to be a huge fan of McIntyre but what you have described sounds pretty much exactly what I witnessed in Nowlan Park last year when I went to see KK training.

How many managers have been to blame for Galways lack of success at senior level?? McIntyre, Loughnane, Hayes, Lane, Murphy, Farrell and Cloonan all failures, or would it be more realistic to look at the players??

Diabhal Beag

There is no passion to win. Years of losing seems to have numbed us to defeat and especially under McIntyre. I don't know if the players want to play under him anymore or if they have really gone from a top 5 side to a team that just about beats Westmeath. And that's in less than a year.

I'm not a fan of McIntyre TBH. We lack players who can catch a ball clean in the air and we just seemed to get manhandled in every match.

MfMan

Galway are in a funny place right now. Every year at the start of the championship they are higher up on the favourites list but, in the years since winning the 2 All Irelands, they have regularly come up short in the championship and in the qualifiers, often losing by narrow margins. Various managers since have tried to rectify this, but with no luck. Despite plenty of underage and club success, it can’t seem to translate onto the Senior team. A lack of big men in midfield and the half-forward line who can catch ball has been identified as one problem, too many senior clubs with a poor quality domestic championship as a result is another, while others have suggested that the Board itself is at fault. Are the structures and coaching at underage adequate? Is success going to players’ heads at an early age? Are team tactics on the day correct? Are they playing to the strengths of their best players? The next match against our near neighbours may give the team a chance to address these issues.



Strangely enough though, nobody has yet questioned the footballers bottle or implied that thery are ‘cowards’. Go figure.

StephenHendry

maybe it goes back to the club scene, i mean portumna have dominated there for the last number of years, maybe the overall standard of the other teams in galway aren't at the level they need them to be in order to have a good selection of players to choose from?

Mountainlad

MfMan wrote: »

Galway are in a funny place right now. Every year at the start of the championship they are higher up on the favourites list but, in the years since winning the 2 All Irelands, they have regularly come up short in the championship and in the qualifiers, often losing by narrow margins. Various managers since have tried to rectify this, but with no luck. Despite plenty of underage and club success, it can’t seem to translate onto the Senior team. A lack of big men in midfield and the half-forward line who can catch ball has been identified as one problem, too many senior clubs with a poor quality domestic championship as a result is another, while others have suggested that the Board itself is at fault. Are the structures and coaching at underage adequate? Is success going to players’ heads at an early age? Are team tactics on the day correct? Are they playing to the strengths of their best players? The next match against our near neighbours may give the team a chance to address these issues.



Strangely enough though, nobody has yet questioned the footballers bottle or implied that thery are ‘cowards’. Go figure.

Well they keep doing well at underage so that surely isn't the problem.

There's not half as much expected of the footballers.

premierstone

StephenHendry wrote: »

maybe it goes back to the club scene, i mean portumna have dominated there for the last number of years, maybe the overall standard of the other teams in galway aren't at the level they need them to be in order to have a good selection of players to choose from?

Who won the club AI this year?, and just look at Tipps terrible terrible record at Club level, that arguement doesnt stand up for me.

Royal Seahawk

Martin Breheny wrote an article about the hurlers today, I found this part interesting, especially when everyone talks about the endless stream of underage talent in the county

Now here's the thing: Galway went into last Saturday's game with four of the six defenders -- Damien Joyce, Tony Óg Regan, Shane Kavanagh and David Collins -- who played in the '05 All-Ireland final (it would have been five if Ollie Canning hadn't retired). How is it that six years later -- without reaching even one All-Ireland semi-final in the interim -- so many of them are still first-choice?
And when repairs were necessary in attack last Saturday, they went back to 34-year-old Alan Kerins, almost two years after he last played for Galway

calvin_zola

galway not good enough to live up to the expectation and perception in the media that they are constantly challengers for Liam

cremeegg

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Martin Breheny wrote an article about the hurlers today, I found this part interesting, especially when everyone talks about the endless stream of underage talent in the county

Now here's the thing: Galway went into last Saturday's game with four of the six defenders -- Damien Joyce, Tony Óg Regan, Shane Kavanagh and David Collins -- who played in the '05 All-Ireland final (it would have been five if Ollie Canning hadn't retired). How is it that six years later -- without reaching even one All-Ireland semi-final in the interim -- so many of them are still first-choice?
And when repairs were necessary in attack last Saturday, they went back to 34-year-old Alan Kerins, almost two years after he last played for Galway

What would Martin Breheny know about it ffs..

Ill tell ye what the problem is lads.. and its not rocket science... The lads only lack some confidence and self belief... Its much harder to achieve this in galway due to the amount of knockers and negative supporters.. there is also this false expectation every year that we must win the all ireland or its total and utter failure. Then we kick out the manager and then back to square one again. They must believe in themselves and each other and be willing to go that extra inch. its hurling with pure abandonment. with no fear and expectation. every ball in its own merit.

simple.

The players give everything in training and matchs..of that there can be no question. How can you though build a team spirit and momentum\confidence\belief.. when there is so much tension\expectation\fear of failure\negativity around.

Mission impossible.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Who won the club AI this year?, and just look at Tipps terrible terrible record at Club level, that arguement doesnt stand up for me.

Thats true and ironically when Tipperary went through their famine between 1971 and 1989, a few Tipp clubs won the All Ireland club championship or at least made the final. Little correlation between county and club performance.

There is no doubt the talent is in Galway but i would doubt their passion after the other night. They just didnt look up for a fight until the game was beyond them. I would have thought after last years game against Tipp where they suffered a heartbreaking defeat would have galvanised them but perhaps the fact they also lost to Waterford in 2009 could be a sign they are lacking some self-belief.

Their profession has naff all to do with it. Plenty of teachers on the Kilkenny team that done 4 in a row and won 7 all irelands the last decade, so believing that certain professions are holding Galway back is a hollow argument. I would in fact hope that more Tipperary hurlers in the future would become teachers in order to free up more time for their hurling

legendary.xix

Galway are being challenged more in the Championship than they have been in the past. They are still very competitive. They really put it up to Tipp last year. While I would not write off Clare, I think Galway will win and get their season back on track. Cork I'd imagine are the team to avoid for all phase 2 winners.

Kojak

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no doubt the talent is in Galway but i would doubt their passion after the other night. They just didnt look up for a fight until the game was beyond them. I would have thought after last years game against Tipp where they suffered a heartbreaking defeat would have galvanised them but perhaps the fact they also lost to Waterford in 2009 could be a sign they are lacking some self-belief.

I have to disagree completly there. In fact, many of the Galway panel belive their own hype and think they have a God given right to be on the county team, AI contendors etc. Many seem to think that no matter how bad they perform, they will not loose their place and tbh there is a certain truth to that.

If the lads were in fear of loosing their place, they might work a bit harder and put more effort into improving their short-comings (catching the ball in the air and support play being 2 examples) instead of turning up late for training and not helping out when another player is double or treble marked.

I have to say that the amount of anger that has been directed at the panel has surprised me. I won't say I full agree with it, but if it makes some players see the light of day, then in the long run it mightn't have been a bad thing. The same could be said for the county board....

Mr. Incognito

Having experience of Galway hurling and mates on the panel it's very simple.

The Galway clubs hate each other more than they hate any opposing county and as such will never band togther.

The only way they will be sucessfull is to make martyrs out of them and turn them inward as a team.

legendary.xix

There uses to be rumours of players having to stand on coaches on trips to games? Were they unfounded rumours or was there truth behind it?

premierstone

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Having experience of Galway hurling and mates on the panel it's very simple.

The Galway clubs hate each other more than they hate any opposing county and as such will never band togther.

Thank you that is exactly the point I made and it is 100 percent the case, I have witnessed some of these club battles and the atmosphere and tension at them is frightening

RealityCheck

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Having experience of Galway hurling and mates on the panel it's very simple.

The Galway clubs hate each other more than they hate any opposing county and as such will never band togther.

The only way they will be sucessfull is to make martyrs out of them and turn them inward as a team.

Funny thats an argugment I'm always hearing from friends of mine from Kilkenny or Tipp. I suppose the recent Portumna Loughrea rivaly tipafies this problem. Mellows and Castlegar is another, nearly all the clubs around Loughrea have a tremendous hate for one another. Its definately an issue and results in players playing as individuals and not for the team. We lack players with the leadership required to pull all the players together, which leads on to another point, that the team does not have leaders. Saturday night was a good example. There seemed to be a lack of leadership on the line and in the team. It leaves a young player like Joe Canning to take on the mantle as the spiritual leader of the team. He's too young for that, we need other more experienced players to stand up in that regard. To some degree however, leaders are born not created.

In technical terms the team is short 2 star players to really have a realistic chance of winning Liam McCarty. If they had a star midfielder and star half forward they'd be in with a shout. It does'nt sound like much but really star players are hard to come by and must be nurtured correctly, something I feel Galway are failing to do. In many ways the team reminds me of Tipperary under Babs Keating. They looked too much towards one player in Eoin Kelly and until they developed some other stars in the team they could not make the breakthrough. Players like Seamus Callananan and Noel McGrath haved added the extra dimension they needed. Galway need to unearth similar gems. They're is however no guarantees of finding them as we all know so well in Galway. Great players must be developed from Minor and U21 all the way to Senior.

We in Galway need to remove the burden of expectation, the team are good but just not near good enough to realistically win an AI. We could always get "lucky" but their is'nt much chance of that right now.

aidan24326

Galway won the U-21 in 2005 and 2009. The '05 team would now be in the 25/26 age bracket, while the '09 team would now be around 22 or so.

Of the '05 team only 3 are now involved with the seniors, and of the '09 team only 2. That's 5 All-Ireland winning U-21 players out of 30, now at peak age, who have progressed to senior level. Not a very good return.

Kojak

aidan24326 wrote: »

Galway won the U-21 in 2005 and 2009. The '05 team would now be in the 25/26 age bracket, while the '09 team would now be around 22 or so.

Of the '05 team only 3 are now involved with the seniors, and of the '09 team only 2. That's 5 All-Ireland winning U-21 players out of 30, now at peak age, who have progressed to senior level. Not a very good return.

It was 2007 that was the last year Galway won the U-21 AI. Clare won it in 2009

solid oak

mcintyre is an ego manic and galway will never progress with him in charge. He was MC ing up at the galway races a couple of days after galways defeat last year. yes the players have to take responsability but for the most part are extreamly dedicated. A good manager can make a huge impact, witness Anthony Daly in Dublin. mcintyre is all about mcintyre, with good managers its all about the team. he doesent even know the type of players he wants are the type of game he wants to play. i cant believe more people cant see him for what he is.

sabatti

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Having experience of Galway hurling and mates on the panel it's very simple.

The Galway clubs hate each other more than they hate any opposing county and as such will never band togther.

The only way they will be sucessfull is to make martyrs out of them and turn them inward as a team.

I agree....serious hatred between clubs in Galway.

solid oak

solid oak wrote: »

mcintyre is an ego manic and galway will never progress with him in charge. He was MC ing up at the galway races a couple of days after galways defeat last year. yes the players have to take responsability but for the most part are extreamly dedicated. A good manager can make a huge impact, witness Anthony Daly in Dublin. mcintyre is all about mcintyre, with good managers its all about the team. he doesent even know the type of players he wants are the type of game he wants to play. i cant believe more people cant see him for what he is.

Should he have hid in a room until the league started so? The guy is the editor of the Connacht tribune hence thats probably why he was MC'ing at the races.

Look the manager isn't the issue because you have went through a fair few the last while so the blame has to ultimately rest with the players. I dont buy into club rivalry either as there is rivalry in every county. They kill each other in training in Nowlan park but it didnt stop them playing as a team.

For what its worth i would hope to avoid Galway until as late as possible as they always seem to have their good game against the blue and gold and have been a fly in the ointment for us on many the occasion over the years.

aidan24326

Kojak wrote: »

It was 2007 that was the last year Galway won the U-21 AI. Clare won it in 2009

Sorry you're right it was 2007.

I think my point still stands though that so few of those players have made the step up.

phkk

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Having experience of Galway hurling and mates on the panel it's very simple.

The Galway clubs hate each other more than they hate any opposing county and as such will never band togther.

The only way they will be sucessfull is to make martyrs out of them and turn them inward as a team.

As a Kilkenny man, I can tell you that the clubs hate each other as much as the Galway clubs so that excuse doesn't hold up..when club matches are being played down here,county and indeed club hurlers take lumps out of each other, and rightly so, but when they put on the county jersey,they feel privileged and honoured and so unite behind each other for the common goal

Hoppermcgrath

If, hypothetically, four sets of identical players in terms of skill and physicality operating under the exact same management with the exact same tactics were put in Galway, Cork, Tipp and KK jerseys respectively there would be vastly different results I think. It is a belief thing largely. Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny have a tradition of winning and fair play to them they believe that they are the best and have a divine right to win. Same sense of entitlement sadly doesn't exist in Galway

Gael85

Galway need long term manager instead of changing every couple seasons.Galway seem to have a different goalkeeper,midfield partnership,centre forward every year,players like Ger Mahon,John Lee,Kevin Hynes,Iarla Tannian were promising minors who have yet to show conistency at senior level.Galway need leaders in central postions,
how come likes of Ritchie Muray,Niall Healy,David Forde,Eoin Forde(both Fordes had good all ireland club final)not on panel?

RealityCheck

Gael85 wrote: »

Galway need long term manager instead of changing every couple seasons.Galway seem to have a different goalkeeper,midfield partnership,centre forward every year,players like Ger Mahon,John Lee,Kevin Hynes,Iarla Tannian were promising minors who have yet to show conistency at senior level.Galway need leaders in central postions,
how come likes of Ritchie Muray,Niall Healy,David Forde,Eoin Forde(both Fordes had good all ireland club final)not on panel?

Ritchie and Niaill both opted away from the panel. Eoin forde is on the panel but was injured in recent weeks I believe. David Forde had a reasonable career in the maroon and white. Not sure if he opted out or not, or was he just dropped.

As for Ger Mahon, Kevin Hynes and Iarla Tannion. Their careers have been disrupted significantly with injury. It has'nt helped them develop. With John Lee I'm not sure if his head has been fully in it. He was or still is in college doing medicine. He left the panel at one stage to concentrate on his studies and has struggled to make the team ever since. John Lee had great potential but he his flaws never improved. He never improved at clearing the ball for example.
A lot of them never had the same level of dedication that hurlers in Kilkenny and Tipperary have. They don't have the same level of discipline with regards diet and conditioning. And thats putting in mildly

RealityCheck

Gael85 wrote: »

Galway need long term manager instead of changing every couple seasons.

With regards this point. McIntyre is in year three and although he did well at times, winning the league, the team seems to be going backwards again. The same went for Conor Hayes, who also got three years, won the league and the team went nowhere. Ger Loughnanne was given two years, and at no stage got anywhere. The only man in recent times who was hard done by was Noel Lane but that was all of ten years ago. I'm not sure I agree, we've given managers plenty of time. At some point we must accept we don't have the talent.