Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish anger at team GB

IRISHSPORTSGUY

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/13854492.stm

Do these FIFA guarantees mean diddly squat?

The privileges that the British home nations have (permanent FIFA vice-president, full FIFA membership without full statehood etc) are enshrined in the FIFA statutes.

However, these statutes can be changed by a vote in the FIFA congress. Senior FIFA figures cannot guarantee that a member country wouldn't seek a vote on this part of the statutes in the future.

Back in the 90's, some Caribbean members sought a vote on the Welsh FA's independence - it didn't get enough support to make it to congress, but the Welsh FA were so worried they instigated the Welsh Premier League to demonstrate their autonomy.

Desire.

Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland all have separate national teams, so they should have separate teams if they wish to enter the Olympics too.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

In March 2008 Mr Blatter stated “If you start to put together a combined team for the Olympics, the question will automatically come up that there are four different associations so how can they play in one team”.

Hmm....I wonder if a slippery slope for a merger could (although it's a small chance) be on the cards? I daresay Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish teams would be added to the English league pyramid too.

newballsplease

Bale is the only one that would make the team anyway.

super_furry

What is interesting is, were we to field a team, could we call up full Northern Ireland internationals? Already our Olympics teams - the boxers in particular - often have Northern Irish members. I admit though, I'm not sure of what the eligibility rules for the Olympics are.

_blank_

Boxing, Rugby and Cricket are all-island sports. NI Boxers don't box for GB, there isn't a separate NI Rugby team, or Cricket team.

Scotland are due to hold a devolution referendum after the SNP got a majority up there in recent elections I think, so they could be completely separate country soon, in any case, they don't have as close ties to England as Wales do, politically. Wales was never really a separate entity, and it's only recently that Wales actually had it's own National Assembly. Scotland has it's own legal system for instance, Wales doesn't. Scotland had a separate crown for centuries, and the United Kingdom only came into existence when King James VI of Scotland inherited the English/Welsh/Irish Crown and became King James I of England

IRISHSPORTSGUY

super_furry wrote: »

What is interesting is, were we to field a team, could we call up full Northern Ireland internationals? Already our Olympics teams - the boxers in particular - often have Northern Irish members. I admit though, I'm not sure of what the eligibility rules for the Olympics are.

I assume so, yes. I'd take Hughes, Evans (both), McAuley, Baird, Davis, McCourt and Lafferty for the Ireland squad in the unlikely event that the Home Nations are amalgamated. None of them would be good enough for team GB, of course. I suppose some of the aforementioned wouldn't play for us on grounds of how strongly unionist they feel though.

LuckyLloyd

The GB Olympic council should simply do a deal with the English FA and just field an English team in GB colours.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Gareth Bale said in an interview a while back he'd love to play. Just thought I'd throw that one out there.

Fratton Fred

Desire. wrote: »

Scotland, Wales, England, and Northern Ireland all have separate national teams, so they should have separate teams if they wish to enter the Olympics too.

So no GB athletes at all, Wales should have its own Athletics team, rowing team etc?

LeeroyJones

I think this could be quite anti-climatic. The schedule for the football in the Olympics 2012 is from 25th July - 11th August with the Premiership due to kick off the following weekend.

I doubt many managers will be too enthused about allowing their players miss all of pre-season and start a new season on the back of completing an Olympic campaign. The decision may ultimately lie with the individual players but I suspect a few managers having a serious influence on their decisions.

yabadabado

Is the football still for under 23's with 3 overage players?

everdead.ie

newballsplease wrote: »

Bale is the only one that would make the team anyway.

Bale and Ramsey also I think the players involved need to be under 23?
So that means you would have the likes of Hart, Milner etc wouldn't be eligible so you might have a few welsh/scottish/northern Ireland players

G.K.

Yes.

Paully D

everdead.ie wrote: »

Bale and Ramsey also I think the players involved need to be under 23?
So that means you would have the likes of Hart, Milner etc wouldn't be eligible so you might have a few welsh/scottish/northern Ireland players

You can have 3 players over the age of 23 as well.

bobbysands81

Can anyone tell me why this the team is going to be called 'Team GB' if the north is included in it?

The north is not part of Great Britain, it is part of the UK though, so why isn't it 'Team UK'?

ArmaniJeanss

super_furry wrote: »

What is interesting is, were we to field a team, could we call up full Northern Ireland internationals?

We've already 'fielded a team' and failed in the qualifiers (the EuroU21s on at the moment are the qualifiers) so it won't be an issue.

As to the question (assuming we'd qualified) could we pick say David Healy as one of our players in the Finals?
First and foremost its a FIFA tournament run under their egibility rules so the straight answer in No. So we couldn't just 'call them up'.
However if all relevant groups such as the FAI, IFA, IOC and London Olympic Committee etc were in agreement and put it to FIFA then I'd suspect they wouldn't have a problem making an exception. As a grand gesture to peace in Ireland or some such bollerky.

Its barely worth the debate though as we haven't qualified and the FAI/IFA/IOC would be far too pigheaded to agree on anything anyway.

super_furry

Tell you something, I can't see why Wales have such a massive problem over this. They're happy enough for their clubs to play in English leagues.

citytillidie

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why this the team is going to be called 'Team GB' if the north is included in it?

The north is not part of Great Britain, it is part of the UK though, so why isn't it 'Team UK'?

Don't forget when the modern Olympics started way back in 1896 there was no Northern Ireland.

It was abbreviated to GBR as of 2008 Olympics "Team GB" was a successful marketing campaign so they want to keep it.

bobbysands81

citytillidie wrote: »

Don't forget when the modern Olympics started way back in 1896 there was no Northern Ireland.

It was abbreviated to GBR as of 2008 Olympics "Team GB" was a successful marketing campaign so they want to keep it.

A bit like the England Cricket team so I presume...

citytillidie

bobbysands81 wrote: »

A bit like the England Cricket team so I presume...

Nope England Cricket under the ECB represents England and Wales

Scotland and Ireland have their own teams, but if you play cricket and live in a country for 5 years or more and are good enough you can represent the country in a cricket game.

ArmaniJeanss

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why this the team is going to be called 'Team GB' if the north is included in it?

The north is not part of Great Britain, it is part of the UK though, so why isn't it 'Team UK'?

Great Britain was the name originally applied to the team (the name given by the International Olympic Committee) which represented both islands in the 1896 Olympics. The famous country code of GBR which we see on their running bibs etc was given back then as well. And basically the IOC have never seen fit to change this name, (though the possibly more politically acceptable Team GB has been used locally for many years now).

As for the specific name of the football team in the next Olympics, well obviously it has to have the same official name as the rest of the GBR team.

*********
None of the above should be taken to represent my views on the matter, merely the historic facts of the name. I'd hate to get into a polical debate with you.

edit : citytillidie types quicker.

bobbysands81

citytillidie wrote: »

Nope England Cricket under the ECB represents England and Wales
Scotland and Ireland have their own teams, but if you play cricket and live in a country for 5 years or more and are good enough you can represent the country in a cricket game.

Exactly my point mate - the England cricket team is NOT the England cricket team, it's the England and Wales (and South African now!) cricket team.

Similarly Team GB is not just England, Wales and Scotland but it's part of Ireland as well. It just does not make sense.

bobbysands81

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Great Britain was the name originally applied to the team (the name given by the International Olympic Committee) which represented both islands in the 1896 Olympics. The famous country code of GBR which we see on their running bibs etc was given back then as well. And basically the IOC have never seen fit to change this name, (though the possibly more politically acceptable Team GB has been used locally for many years now).

As for the specific name of the football team in the next Olympics, well obviously it has to have the same official name as the rest of the GBR team.

*********
None of the above should be taken to represent my views on the matter, merely the historic facts of the name. I'd hate to get into a polical debate with you.

edit : citytillidie types quicker.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought that the team was known as Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not GBR or Team GB?

EDIT - Taken from the British Olympic website, like the the England and Wales cricketers, they are erroneously named - http://www.olympics.org.uk/faq/

The British Olympic Association (BOA) is the National Olympic Committee (NOC) for Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The BOA is responsible for the participation in the Olympic Games of athletes from GB and NI, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and UK Overseas Territories which do not have their own National Olympic Committee.

losthorizon

How could NI take part in a GB football team? NI is part of the UK not GB.


Actually as its the OLympic council of the whole island of Ireland surely they need our permission

OPENROAD

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Exactly my point mate - the England cricket team is NOT the England cricket team, it's the England and Wales (and South African now!) cricket team.

Similarly Team GB is not just England, Wales and Scotland but it's part of Ireland as well. It just does not make sense.

But surely they meet the qualification?

ArmaniJeanss

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought that the team was known as Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not GBR or Team GB?

EDIT - Taken from the British Olympic website, like the the England and Wales cricketers, they are erroneously named - http://www.olympics.org.uk/faq/

The British Olympic Association (BOA) is the National Olympic Committee (NOC) for Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The BOA is responsible for the participation in the Olympic Games of athletes from GB and NI, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and UK Overseas Territories which do not have their own National Olympic Committee.

I'm kinda confused as to whether you are agreeing or diasgreeing, but their actual name does appear to be 'Great Britain' on the IOCs official website.

http://www.olympic.org/great-britain
http://www.olympic.org/national-olympic-committees

Who they ultimately represent (UK, GB&NI, IOM, overseas territories etc) doesn't have any bearing on their official name. 'Great Britian' is what will appear on official doco, medals tables etc.

I guess if people have a problem with this (and I suspect its only the politically minded who will, the athletes are probably too busy trying to win medals) then they should probably start lobbying for a change.

bobbysands81

OPENROAD wrote: »

But surely they meet the qualification?

Yup, they do, I'm just slagging.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm kinda confused as to whether you are agreeing or diasgreeing, but their actual name does appear to be 'Great Britain' on the IOCs official website.

http://www.olympic.org/great-britain
http://www.olympic.org/national-olympic-committees

Who they ultimately represent (UK, GB&NI, IOM, overseas territories etc) doesn't have any bearing on their official name. 'Great Britian' is what will appear on official doco, medals tables etc.

I guess if people have a problem with this (and I suspect its only the politically minded who will, the athletes are probably too busy trying to win medals) then they should probably start lobbying for a change.

I think it's ridiculous that their name appears as Great Britain when their team is not just Great Britain but is the north of Ireland as well. The term "Great Britain" is factually incorrect so they shouldn't be called that.

citytillidie

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Exactly my point mate - the England cricket team is NOT the England cricket team, it's the England and Wales (and South African now!) cricket team.

Similarly Team GB is not just England, Wales and Scotland but it's part of Ireland as well. It just does not make sense.

Yep just like Ireland cricket team has South African's too.

bobbysands81

citytillidie wrote: »

Yep just like Ireland cricket team has South African's too.

No idea why you're focusing on a throw away comment I made (whilst I was trying to be humorous) and ignoring the substantive point.

LondonIrish90

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Exactly my point mate - the England cricket team is NOT the England cricket team, it's the England and Wales (and South African now!) cricket team.

Similarly Team GB is not just England, Wales and Scotland but it's part of Ireland as well. It just does not make sense.

The official titles are the England and Wales Cricket Board and the England and Wales Cricket team. Its called England in the media and by fans because simply as it is shorter, and everybody still knows who is being talked about. Besides, Wales have only one first class county and provide only one (horrible) test venue.

Similar to the way that many English cricket fans see Wales as something of a separate and somewhat insignificant part of Cricket, I suspect many British people see Northern Ireland as a separate and rather insignificant part of the UK in terms of athletics. As unfair and undeserved as these views may be, they probably wont leave cricket or athletics any time soon and are major reasons as to why there is no uproar among either body to start representing themselves with different titles.

Pro. F

"The FA has consulted with its partner associations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in developing the player-selection criteria and timeline," read the statement.

Such a fúck up by either the FA or the BOA. The other FAs haven't been consulted and don't want to go ahead with it and yet the BOA and the English FA still release the statement saying that they have consulted and it's all agreed and dandy

Sports governing bodies never cease to amaze me with their fail.

The Rooster

super_furry wrote: »

What is interesting is, were we to field a team, could we call up full Northern Ireland internationals? Already our Olympics teams - the boxers in particular - often have Northern Irish members. I admit though, I'm not sure of what the eligibility rules for the Olympics are.

Athletes in Northern Ireland have the choice as to whether they compete for GB or Ireland in the Olympics.

Rory McIlroy was asked a couple of months ago who he'd represent if/when golf is an Olympic sport and he said he'd probably go with GB.

bobbysands81

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

The official titles are the England and Wales Cricket Board and the England and Wales Cricket team. Its called England in the media and by fans because simply as it is shorter, and everybody still knows who is being talked about. Besides, Wales have only one first class county and provide only one (horrible) test venue.

Similar to the way that many English cricket fans see Wales as something of a separate and somewhat insignificant part of Cricket, I suspect many British people see Northern Ireland as a separate and rather insignificant part of the UK in terms of athletics. As unfair and undeserved as these views may be, they probably wont leave cricket or athletics any time soon and are major reasons as to why there is no uproar among either body to start representing themselves with different titles.

I agree with you until that bit mate - it's not about representing themselves with "different titles" but representing themselves with the correct titles.

The Rooster

Back on topic

The Scottish, Welsh and NI FAs will not stop players playing for GB. But as inidividual FAs they are not playing any part in the process, and the current fuss is just to let everyone know that this Team GB, is absolutely nothing to do with them. Its the English FA who will make all the arrangements in terms of picking manager, coaches, players.

everdead.ie

Would not be surprised to just seethe England u21 team + Bale and Ramsey. Fa said anyone playing in Euros won't be selected for Olympiad I also think Harry could be the coach put in charge.

parker kent

The team will be more or less the England U 21 team with a few like Beckham added in. With Euro 2012 happening and the Olympics clashing with Premiership, I can't see there being any of the actual senior English team.

So Bale, Ramsey, Fletcher etc would actually be a great boost.

dsmythy

They'll just make sure to have at least one player from each of the other three associations in the squad.

The amount of pedantry on this thread is somewhat amusing. Why the fuss over what a British Olympic football team will comprise of from non-supporters of any of the associations involved?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

dsmythy wrote: »

They'll just make sure to have at least one player from each of the other three associations in the squad.

The amount of pedantry on this thread is somewhat amusing. Why the fuss over what a British Olympic football team will comprise of from non-supporters of any of the associations involved?

If the other FA's do not agree to taking part and any players registered under there FA's take part sanctions could be taken against said players

everdead.ie

dsmythy wrote: »

They'll just make sure to have at least one player from each of the other three associations in the squad.

The amount of pedantry on this thread is somewhat amusing. Why the fuss over what a British Olympic football team will comprise of from non-supporters of any of the associations involved?

The pedantry is because the welsh NI and Scottish FA's are afraid it could treathen there independence which would be very worrying for them. Might work out for Rangers and Celtic though if they end up in the football league because of it :pac:

G.K.

What if we do support one of them? :pac:

dsmythy

G.K. wrote: »

What if we do support one of them? :pac:

Well then I'm sure you may have some passion about the rights or wrongs of it. I don't get why a Republic of Ireland supporter would care too much especially with the Republic not going to be involved.

parker kent

dsmythy wrote: »

Well then I'm sure you may have some passion about the rights or wrongs of it. I don't get why a Republic of Ireland supporter would care too much especially with the Republic not going to be involved.

Do you think that nobody here should post about the World Cup when Ireland are not in it? I doubt people are caring "too much". It is just topical, interesting and about our nearest neighbours.

bobbysands81

dsmythy wrote: »

Well then I'm sure you may have some passion about the rights or wrongs of it. I don't get why a Republic of Ireland supporter would care too much especially with the Republic not going to be involved.

Are you in charge of this thread now deciding who can and cannot speak on topics?

dsmythy

parker kent wrote: »

Do you think that nobody here should post about the World Cup when Ireland are not in it? I doubt people are caring "too much". It is just topical, interesting and about our nearest neighbours.

I just picked up on the sniping that had already begun between posters that will no doubt snowball. I can see the interest i guess.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Are you in charge of this thread now deciding who can and cannot speak on topics?

Just expressing my opinion on the banality of it all. I'll leave you all to it.

Mr. Guappa

This could cause a hell of a ruckus over nothing. A week after the Olympics and no-one will care/remember how Team GB/GBR/England+Wales+Scotland+N.I. got on in the soccer. They never entered a soccer team before so why do so now? There is no need for soccer to even be an Olympic sport. An Olympic gold medal should be seen as the pinnacle of a sport. This is going to be a nuisance for club managers on the eve of a new season.

Who won the soccer at the last Olympics?

ynwa_17

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

This could cause a hell of a ruckus over nothing. A week after the Olympics and no-one will care/remember how Team GB/GBR/England+Wales+Scotland+N.I. got on in the soccer. They never entered a soccer team before so why do so now? There is no need for soccer to even be an Olympic sport. An Olympic gold medal should be seen as the pinnacle of a sport. This is going to be a nuisance for club managers on the eve of a new season.

Who won the soccer at the last Olympics?

Argentina. Remember watching the final v Nigeria. Argentina had an unreal team with Riquelme, Mascherano, Aguero, Di Maria etc