What would you do in my position given the current economic situation?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Heres the scenario. I am a 22 year old with a choice to make. I've been offered a job in Germany and having lived there for 1 year before I would be very keen to return having enjoyed it immesely. A bonus for this is the salary is very attractive and substantially higher than anything I will get offered in Ireland. Thats option number 1. Option number 2 is that I have been offered a fully funded PhD in Ireland.

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed. My worry is that everything in this country will go belly up while I am doing it. If this happens what would the impact be on me. Essentially what I am asking is would the consequences of default have a massive impact on me living in Galway for the next 4 years. Might seem like a strange place to put this request but I just wanna know would you guys even consider the future Irish economy given this scenario.

creeper1

Well this thread will probably end up being moved but I'll give you my opinion.

You are thinking about doing a PhD? Are you aware that there is a massive oversupply in Phd as evidenced by this Nature magazine article?

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2011-04-21-phds-nature-education.htm

I don't want to demotivate the next Einstein ( I doubt your abilities given that your username is "mythirdtesticle") but that is the reality of the situation.

I'd be in Germany unless I had a genuine passion for my area of study.

Good luck.

Bandana boy

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Heres the scenario. I am a 22 year old with a choice to make. I've been offered a job in Germany and having lived there for 1 year before I would be very keen to return having enjoyed it immesely. A bonus for this is the salary is very attractive and substantially higher than anything I will get offered in Ireland. Thats option number 1. Option number 2 is that I have been offered a fully funded PhD in Ireland.

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed. My worry is that everything in this country will go belly up while I am doing it. If this happens what would the impact be on me. Essentially what I am asking is would the consequences of default have a massive impact on me living in Galway for the next 4 years. Might seem like a strange place to put this request but I just wanna know would you guys even consider the future Irish economy given this scenario.

Despite all the value you extracted from the Irish Economy ,now that it is time to put something back in ,you will not pay tax on principle !!
Leech

RichardAnd

In your position, I'd take the job in Germany. Putting aside the fact that it's a job in a stable, sane country with a better work ethic, the fact is that no amount of academic paper work ever makes up for proper working experience.

Also as you're young, this is a fine chance to make a new home for yourself in another country. You'd have a decent job, get a nice place to live (Germans by the way, don't have the same addiction to buying homes) and meet a nice German girl and you're set.

I'm envious man

Tipp Man

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

.

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed.

How much have you cost the Irish taxpayer in your 22 years on this planet?? How much will you Phd cost the Irish taxpayer?? How much have you taken from Ireland??

And then you don't want to contribute back to Irish tax and society???

so you want to take everything and give nothing - great attitude (typical of the country really)

I have no problem with people emigrating - my own family have done it - however your attitude stinks in my opinion

Zubeneschamali

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal

Mind the door on your way out.

jester77

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Heres the scenario. I am a 22 year old with a choice to make. I've been offered a job in Germany and having lived there for 1 year before I would be very keen to return having enjoyed it immesely. A bonus for this is the salary is very attractive and substantially higher than anything I will get offered in Ireland. Thats option number 1. Option number 2 is that I have been offered a fully funded PhD in Ireland.

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed. My worry is that everything in this country will go belly up while I am doing it. If this happens what would the impact be on me. Essentially what I am asking is would the consequences of default have a massive impact on me living in Galway for the next 4 years. Might seem like a strange place to put this request but I just wanna know would you guys even consider the future Irish economy given this scenario.

The salary would need to be at least 7-10k higher in Germany to offset the tax difference. Tax is very low in Ireland compared to Germany and living in any of the big cities is just as expensive as living in Galway. Check here for calculating.

spank_inferno

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed.

In your short 22 years on Earth you have received some of the most generous allowences, and free education available to any child on this little planet.

Its a bit rich stating the above, considering you have received nothing so far but the tax of others.

I would say go to Germany, as said before you will gain a lot from life & career experience.

Also you should go because your attitude stinks and I'd prefer a Phd tax free and funded by the workers of Ireland (your welcome by the way) would go to someone with a better attitude to the country that gave you so much.

Welease

Personally, I would focus on your end goal.. What do you want to be doing in 10+ years from now?..

If the PhD is essential to that (research based for example), then I would go down that route now. If however, you primary goal is to have a well paid job that you like, then the PhD is somewhat irrelevant and the job in Germany on the surface would seem to be of greater value.

Cookie_Monster

Take the job in Germany, a couple of years of work experience in your chosen field is probably worth more in the long run than the PHD now anyway.

All your German taxes can them go to support the likes of Ireland and Greece so you'll benefit the country more by that too :pac:

As the others have said, you've benefited a lot from irish taxes, so I don't know where you think you're going by refusing to contribute. You don't have to if you don't want to but your attitude is a bit hypocritical.
In any case, I suggest you get out and get some life & work experience

COYW

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal.

Can I ask what those principals are? As someone who has benefited from the postgraduate education system in Ireland, I have no problem in paying tax and have done so for my 6 years in full time employment here. Of course, nothing gets my back up more than the thought of my tax going into a banking black hole or paying for the summer holiday abroad of some welfare cheat.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Well I don't mean to come across as a leech. The PhD isnt government funded. Its funded by IBM and they pay the fees so Im not sure does this cost the tax payer?

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with. Ive never taken out a loan and hopefully wont ever have to.

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

jester77

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Well I don't mean to come across as a leech. The PhD isnt government funded. Its funded by IBM and they pay the fees so Im not sure does this cost the tax payer?

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with. Ive never taken out a loan and hopefully wont ever have to.

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

Just so you know, if you move to Germany you will be paying a reunification tax (5.5% of your salary) for the rebuilding of East Germany even though you had nothing to do with it and most likely won't benefit from it.

COYW

jester77 wrote: »

Just so you know, if you move to Germany you will be paying a reunification tax (5.5% of your salary) for the rebuilding of East Germany even though you had nothing to do with it and most likely won't benefit from it.

He will also be paying a religion tax, if the OP declares himself of some religion and Germany's water charges are amongst the highest in Europe also.

HellFireClub

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Well I don't mean to come across as a leech. The PhD isnt government funded. Its funded by IBM and they pay the fees so Im not sure does this cost the tax payer?

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with. Ive never taken out a loan and hopefully wont ever have to.

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

This sounds about right. OP if I had your options I'd head to Germany. You wouldn't know what is going to unfold over here within the next 12-24 months. Look at Athen's last night and today, they have rolling blackouts now all over Greece as the workers who are employed within the semi state that generates electricity, are on a 48 hour rolling strike. This kind of stuff must have a very real impact on the day to day lives of people living there, and if we are being honest with ourselves here, are we really that far behind Greece???

Ireland is a highly depressing place to be living in at the moment and for that reason alone, I'd be out of here if I had an option like you have...

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Its different though. At least Id be aware of that tax before I signed up and it wouldn't be thrown at me by a corrupt government.

Welease

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

Where do you think the money for your education, child benefit, roads, lightings, TV stations, hospitals, police, water, sports facilities etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all came from?

That's what your taxes pay for.. You have gained a considerable amount from them already if you are in a position to be considering a PhD..

Naya Prickly Vendor

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

Oh, I don't care about loyalty or duty or if you pay tax here. I would guess it was the attitude in OP that got to a lot of people.

I would still say you should take the job as I'm not sure how into the phd you are...
but as jester said, what sounds like a high salary in germany might not translate in net terms. Tax and insurance whathaveyou.

bobbytables

Aside from some of the stupid rationales you've expressed OP, as others have said: it depends on where you see your career going.

I'm tapping this out on my phone so I'll be brief. PhDs are double edge swords!. Many would think they are some natural progression from lesser degrees, but they are not. Choosing to do a PhD should mean that you are completely cool with the notion of disregarding the vast majority of career options open to you at this stage in order to boost your credibility in some narrow field of academia or research. I know this because I experienced it first hand. Loads of my mates have doctorates, primarily in the Sciences & Engineering. They all hate the ego driven politics that consumes so much energy in our Universities, but they can't escape it because they've devoted so much just to get there.

A dear friend is seriously thinking of packing it all in, after 20 years of academia & research groups based Internationally & doing something completely different.

This isn't simply a "Dont do a PhD" post. I wouldn't have posted it if ur question was, should I do a PhD in this location or that location in this research area. At least then I would have known that you weren't putting such a huge career decision on the head of a pin.

HellFireClub

Welease wrote: »

Where do you think the money for your education, child benefit, roads, lightings, TV stations, hospitals, police, water, sports facilities etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all came from?

That's what your taxes pay for.. You have gained a considerable amount from them already if you are in a position to be considering a PhD..

He only got what he, and other's were entitled to by virtue of public policy...

Cookie_Monster

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here?

Roads
hospitals
public transport
infrastructure which means you can leave your house
police and a justice system which means you unlikely to be murdered for your stuff at the drop of a hat.
education

and so on, you actually get a whole lot for your tax money, granted a whole pile is wasted on various things too but let's not be facetious about it.

Welease

HellFireClub wrote: »

He only got what he, and other's were entitled to by virtue of public policy...

I never said otherwise, but his post is focused on taxes paying for bank bailouts.. While a percentage is.. the vast majority of taxes paid in this country during his lifetime have had nothing to do with banks/developers, and have been used to provide critical services many of which he has already availed of.

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with.

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

bobbytables wrote: »

Aside from some of the stupid rationales you've expressed OP, as others have said: it depends on where you see your career going.

I'm tapping this out on my phone so I'll be brief. PhDs are double edge swords!. Many would think they are some natural progression from lesser degrees, but they are not. Choosing to do a PhD should mean that you are completely cool with the notion of disregarding the vast majority of career options open to you at this stage in order to boost your credibility in some narrow field of academia or research. I know this because I experienced it first hand. Loads of my mates have doctorates, primarily in the Sciences & Engineering. They all hate the ego driven politics that consumes so much energy in our Universities, but they can't escape it because they've devoted so much just to get there.

A dear friend is seriously thinking of packing it all in, after 20 years of academia & research groups based Internationally & doing something completely different.

This isn't simply a "Dont do a PhD" post. I wouldn't have posted it if ur question was, should I do a PhD in this location or that location in this research area. At least then I would have known that you weren't putting such a huge career decision on the head of a pin.

Interesting post. The thing is I am interest in research but exactly what you said is off putting. Are there any benefits to having a ohd in industry. Industry is computing.

enda1

You do realise that VAT is tax, right?

Welease

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Interesting post. The thing is I am interest in research but exactly what you said is off putting. Are there any benefits to having a ohd in industry. Industry is computing.

Yes, and No.. It all depends on what type of research and where.. If your primary focus was academic research then yes a PhD would likely be advantageous. There are other areas and employers who would also place a value on a PhD, but as you would expect there are as many employers (possibly a lot more) who would place a higher value on industry experience rather than academic experience

If your primary focus was industrial then it would depend on your employer, and experience levels, and you may find that a PhD actually prices you out of the market given your lack of experience.

I have worked in IT since the 80's, and beyond a degree (and relevant industry certifications), further education has made little direct effect to the people I have worked with/hired/managed etc. In fact, the most "qualified" members of our team would be the most junior..

Edit - I meant to add, you would need to be a lot more specific when considering the value of the PhD etc.. What would you be studying? etc.. If it was a specific area of high value research in an area you were interested in (nano technology for example), then that would be far more valuable than cranking out .Net code in Germany in relation to working in a nano technology area..

fred252

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Well I don't mean to come across as a leech. The PhD isnt government funded. Its funded by IBM and they pay the fees so Im not sure does this cost the tax payer?

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with. Ive never taken out a loan and hopefully wont ever have to.

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

was your undergraduate and secondary education not sponsored by the state? if so you do sound like a bit of a leech.

nonetheless i would take the german job. get some experience under your belt. you can always come back to ireland and earn decent bucks when you have that experience.

COYW

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Well I don't mean to come across as a leech. The PhD isnt government funded. Its funded by IBM and they pay the fees so Im not sure does this cost the tax payer?

I'd take the Germany option myself, nobody knows what is going to happen in Ireland over the next few years, in all honesty and if you started a Phd and your funding is cut or disappears, you will be left in limbo. I have an Phd available to me after completing my research Master's but won't be pursuing it for similar reasons.

Cannibal Ox

Take the job and run. You can always come back, or stay there, and do a PhD, you won't be able to come back and do the job. Even if the economy was perfect, I'd still say go. You're 22! Enjoy the world while you haven't got any responsibilities holding you here.

deisebhoy17

Work experience surpasses any Phd which is normally a ply by the colleges to get their students to stay on a year longer.. more money ect. Dont think for another minute about it get out there, get working and see a bit of the world

z0oT

bobbytables wrote: »

PhDs are double edge swords!. Many would think they are some natural progression from lesser degrees, but they are not. Choosing to do a PhD should mean that you are completely cool with the notion of disregarding the vast majority of career options open to you at this stage in order to boost your credibility in some narrow field of academia or research.

I would agree with this. I'm currently finishing off a Masters in Engineering at the moment and I can honestly say that the Masters has got me zero in terms of extra employment prospects, truth be told it's probably been a disadvantage, for the reason that in many cases fresh graduates are more attractive. However in my case, luckily I've a good job secured for September.

@OP, you mentioned that your PhD is funded by IBM. Company funded PhDs tend to be better in this regard as more than likely there'll be a job waiting for you when you're finished, for the simple reason that any company is unlikely to invest tens of thousands in you and let you walk out the door when done.

Where you can tend to run into trouble with a PhD is if its funded by a research institute for example, it can be difficult to find employment outside of academia unless it's atune to an employers interests which is quite unlikely unless they're the ones funding it.

Anyway, all that being said I too would echo the sentiments of those recommending you take the job, for as has been quite rightly pointed out, experience is key in many cases. However it is ultimately your own decision.

Daegerty

Get the job in Germany for a few years and see what you do after that. We all in the EU now, no need to be guilt tripped into staying here.

Right now the EU is screwing us in every way they can so why not use EU membership to your advantage? There are tons of people in poor non-EU countries out there who are stuck in their country unless they can persuade (or bribe) someone to give them a visa.

hinault

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

On the tax thing. My problem is not that I dont want to contribute as such its more that it seems a bit pointless and I'd get better money else where. Granted I got free education. It annoys me however that I should be paying for the mistakes of banks which I had nothing to do with. Ive never taken out a loan and hopefully wont ever have to.

Serious question to you guys? Is there any benefit to paying tax here? You can talk about loyalty and duty to get country back on its feet would be in the countries best interest. The truth is the Government and bankers were the ones who messed up. Just feels wrong paying for the mistakes of clowns like Bertie who think they can walk on water.Is it a fair assumption to view paying tax here as burning money?

One would assume that someone doing a PH.D is intelligent.

The fact of the matter is sonny that the decision to bail out the banks has been taken and it has been decided that the citizens of this nation will bail out the banks.
Whether that decision is "a bit pointless" is academic now.

Your kind are the net beneficiaries of tax transfers from the taxpayer in your 22 years on this planet son.
looking at the content of your posts here, the State should be billing you for a refund.

Incidentally, if you do decide to emigrate to Germany you'd better familiarise yerself with tax rates over there.

bobbytables

z0oT wrote: »

Where you can tend to run into trouble with a PhD is if its funded by a research institute for example, it can be difficult to find employment outside of academia unless it's atune to an employers interests which is quite unlikely unless they're the ones funding it.

Agree 100%.

OP my own background is in IT/Engineering so I can perhaps offer some further insight in this case. When I started a PhD I was working on commercialization R&D projects that had ties with large multinationals. Very quickly I (and many others) faced the dilemma of academic publication Vs protection of intellectual property. Also throw in to the mix senior academics with little or no industry experience, credited with the task of managing what was essentially a commercial endeavor. Nuff said! . Anyway I wasn't the worst affected, with students having put in months & years of work and having their papers pulled at the last minute because of conflicts that existed between various academic Vs commercial interests. It was an absolute disaster for many doctoral candidates and a far cry from the fantasy that existed in their minds before starting; unfortunately.

Also add to the fact that during the process, I found a much more appropriate supervisor to work with in my chosen field, but couldn't transcend research groups purely for political reasons. We used to have research days where candidates from all over the Uni would come and present posters, etc. It was a chance to mingle and promote collaboration. I have never in my life since, seen as many people in one room so uncomfortable around each other. I spent more time trying to find out who my supervisor didn't like or who didn't like my supervisor or his colleagues than on actual collaboration.

As soon as I had gained a solid appreciation for the reality and the contrast that existed between it and my misconceived notions, I wrapped up and departed. It was the best move I ever made and I have had years to reflect on that decision. Although government has been encouraging ties between academia and industry for years, the current approach is overly simplistic and doesn't seriously consider that conflicting goals exist, especially when you consider the reasons why PhD students are there in the first place.

The concept of a PhD is to qualify you as an independent researcher, capable of making continuous contributions to knowledge throughout your career and all that goes with it, including attracting necessary research funding to carry out your work. So from all the Post Docs I know (apart from the one guy who managed to leave research altogether), this is their goal. Yet so much of their energy is wasted on politics.

In all sincerity, my heart goes out to them at times, because I wish I just click my fingers and have them all working in the fantasy world that they believed they were entering, instead.

deasyd

Funny how you won't pay tax out of principle, yet that's the exact pool of money that your funded Ph.D will come from. Where did you think the money came from?

You talk about Ireland possibly defaulting in the next 4 years and how it will affect you. It will affect you in the same way it will affect the public service. You will wake up one day to find that you have not been paid. Anyone who gets offered a fully funded Ph.D in this climate is very lucky. However, there are a number of things to consider:

1. Background check on your supervisors and track record from a previous student’s point of view (most important)
2. You're own ability
3. Length of time the Ph.D will take
4. Job prospects
5. Patients
6. Do you have a good family, partner and friends that will be by your side for the duration of the Ph.D?

Obviously, the ranking of the above is a matter of personal motivations. At the end of the day you are only 22 and I believe, after completing a Ph.D myself, that you are too young. Doctoral research is a long, critical, lonely and tough process and, with the current climate in Ireland, there is very little reward for it. There is no point in doing a Ph.D unless you believe that you want to be a research academic for the rest of your life. Ph.D studies have not really translated to industry unless you are in Science or IT, then it’s a different ball game altogether. To get work I have had to take my Ph.D off my CV. An awful feeling considering it took four years of blood, sweat and tears and now I can’t even mention it.

I wish I didn’t waste the best years of my 20’s doing research. You can always return to do a Ph.D later in life with a wealth of industry experience behind you. At the end of the day, at the end of your Ph.D you are supposed to be an expert in the field. I think you will have a more difficult time doing this and finding the dedication needed to achieve this in your 20’s. This can especially be the case when all of you friends are earning money and heading off travelling and you’re stuck in college, in total nearly 10 years. A Ph.D consumes your life. Unless you are getting amazing funding you can expect to only have about €250 a week. There’s not a lot left when you pay rent and transport or if you have to go to the doctor. You get no other assistance, no medical card, rent allowance etc.

I’m only 26 and if I was to live it all again I would opt for the working option. You will gain life experience in the real world, a good wage that you can manage a lifestyle on, you’ll experience Germany and no doubt pick up the language, you will enjoy your youth and a relationships and in the future you can always go back and do a Ph.D and secure finding with all of life’s experiences behind you.

Ph.Ds always have a tendency to run over. They say three years if you have completed a Research Masters first or five years if you upgrade or transfer. Despite what anyone says it will take a minimum of four years provided you have a supervisor that you work well with. A lot hangs on the supervisor/student relationship and I can tell you from experience it can be a dam hard one to manage. Often the Ph.D runs over the funding period. If you have funding for a Ph.D for three years, It could take four because you never know what obstacles you might meet, therefore, you have a year with no money and often it is at the end of the Ph.D which is the most intense time so you could not possible take on work. There is also no room for lecturing with the embargo on the public sector so if they promise you that they’re lying. You will find that if you have a funded Ph.D a lot of supervisors could be willing to take you on. Don’t be fooled by it or niave. Do a background check on EVERYONE that could be potentially involved in your Ph.D.

My advice is to embrace your 20’s, work, make friends, travel and love. Don’t do what I did.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make and keep us posted.

alejandro1977

A lot of tough talk about the OP getting a free education. Yeah, so what?

Fees were abolished for stupid political reasons, those who benefit from eduction should pay, just like the Junior Doctors who plan to emigrate and take their hugely expensive education with them.

Can I assume that all those who criticised the OP in this respect are in favour of fees? Graduate taxes are almost as silly and unenforceable as the righteous indignation of random punters.

OP: if I were to do a PhD I'd make sure it was in an area I was passionate about, and also that the institution had a good international reputation (many Irish Institutions are so-so in this respect) and in particular that the supervisor was up to scratch

Soups123

From reading just the first paragraph of ur openning post, I think you know yourself. You had a paragraph of positives in going and a line for option 2. I'd go option one. We'll be a long while getting out of this mess by which time you'll be flying. enjoy spread some good news about ireland over there

Zubeneschamali

alejandro1977 wrote: »

A lot of tough talk about the OP getting a free education. Yeah, so what?

So don't say you will never pay taxes in Ireland on principle.

alejandro1977

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So don't say you will never pay taxes in Ireland on principle.

And? He doesn't want to pay, let him work abroad. The fact Ruari Quinn decided to give him a free ride through college is neither here nor there.

waffleman

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

Now I'm a bit torn about what do to. Ireland makes my blood boil and I would not even consider paying tax here out of principal but thankfully doing the PhD I would be untaxed. My worry is that everything in this country will go belly up while I am doing it.

With an attitude like that you could easily end up as Taoiseach if you stay.

Ask around - see how fellow graduates are getting on finding jobs in Ireland - once you have your answer let me know how you get on Germany. I can't believe some of the comments on this thread - leech etc... there is no respect for policy makers in this country and rightly so.

Redr

Go to work in Germany! How many people in their twenties are working anymore? Most, to me, appear to be doing post-grad studies or have become recently unemployed or are thinking of emigrating. Some are taking stop-gap jobs like bar-tending.

Work is important. You can study anytime. I did a masters several years after my primary degree and it has really stood to me when looking for promotion (I studied while holding down a job).

I, too, emigrated and it really stood to me in the scarce jobs market of the 90's when I returned to Ireland. And let me tell you - I'm paying plenty of tax and giving it back and what have you but that's my choice at this stage!

Crazy Horse 6

So you are young and have a job lined up in a vastly superior country to or own? Get the hell out now whilst the government introduce a emigration tax.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

It's weird. I'm hearing only mainly negative experiences from people about academia. i guess it's not all it's cracked up to be.just for clarification it's not that I am against tax. I just feel hard done by by the way the previous government squandered everything. I've a choice not to pay for it that's why I think I would benefit more paying tax in another country albeit at a higher rate. Might be the thing to do so. I alreadyhave the language.I studied in college as part of my degree and spend 12 months in Munich which is also where the job is. Still have contacts there too etc. Etc.

Somebody was talking numbers. On the phd I'd take home 300 per week tax free. Due to tax difference someone also mentioned that salary would want to be 7 to 10k higher. It's 44k. Most of my class mates with similar cvs are getting offered 30k max. I think take home pay works out broadly similar. However the salary while very beneficial isn't that much of an issue. Either way I'll have more money than I ever had before.

Zubeneschamali

Naya Prickly Vendor wrote: »

II've a choice not to pay for it that's why I think I would benefit more paying tax in another country albeit at a higher rate.

You'll have to go a lot further than Germany to avoid paying extra tax to bail us out. I'd suggest Mars.

Electric Sheep

Take the job.

Work experience is worth 10X more than a Phd. Your parents' taxes more than paid for your education. Getting out of Ireland is priceless.

Bullseye1

Personally at your age I would go to Germany. As regard to the banks and government getting us into a mess we the people of Ireland must also take responsibility. We are obsessed with owning property, the more the better. Hell we even bought up the Costa Blanca. So while the banks did lend recklessly and the government did nothing to cool the Market (by introducing a heavty investment house property tax) it was the ordinary man on the street who decided he must own more than one house as property prices were only going in one direction.

dan_d

Nothing against academia. But I remember my dad saying to me once that when he's interviewing (he often interviews people for engineering positions, along with 2/3 others on a panel) they would be a little bit more inclined to go for someone with a degree and a couple of years work behind them, than someone with a degree and a PhD....in other words, almost 10 years in college and no real experience of work.

Now, that's the industry he's in - it doesn't require research-based positions. If you want to go into academia/research, then the Phd is probably the better option.

Otherwise I'd take the Germany option. You can always go back to college to do a Masters/Phd later (and you can - I know someone who's gone back to do a Phd at the age of 35 with 3 kids).

As for the tax thing, well there's only one response to that ... "the only certain things in this life are death and taxes ".Sorry to burst your bubble!!! You're paying tax no matter where you go, for things that you never had a hand in, so you should probably stop counting that as a factor in your decision-making.

eco2live

I can see where the OP is coming from in regards to value for money in Ireland. I am reading about bank workers getting between 130 and 400k redundancy paid out of tax payers money. I read every day about the scandals in FAS and the HSE etc. Waste in government. Overpaid public servants with inflated sense of entitlement. High cost of living fueled by incompetence and credit. Water charges for water that is undrinkable and half of it pouring into the ground. Government after government who will not take the hard decisions needed to create a fair society. If we balanced our books we would not need to borrow any money for the day to day running.

Worst off all a sheepish public who accept and fund this crap. Go to Germany if you can.

enda1

Where in Germany? A lot of Germany is a bit ****. Berlin - yes. Hamburg, Munich - probably. Others nah.

Depending on industry and specialisation, PhDs can be more or less useful. A PhD in Germany is highly valuable and well respected. They are not comparable to each other, PhD and work experience. How about considering a PhD linked to a company in Germany which covers both angles?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Yeah. The job is in Munich which is pretty nice. I actually have applied for phd positions in Germany working with companies just waiting to hear back. Anyway I'll make up my mind when the time comes!