Viber - How do they make money

trad

I've got viber on my i-phone.

I have rang my daughter in Australia on her i-phone for free. How can they do that when it costs me money to ring my other daughter down the road?

There has to be a catch

cookie1977

They're just using data like skype. They facilitate the call over the internet. SO it's not techincally costing them anything. According to their founder they haven't decided how they'll make money:
http://www.quora.com/How-is-Viber-going-to-make-money

Blazer

Well they haven't ruled out a subscription fee
Technically if they were to charge let's say €20 a year etc they could still claim that they still meet the below criteria.

1. We will NOT charge for the app
2. We will NOT charge for Viber to Viber calls
3. We will NOT charge for Viber to Viber texts
4. We will NOT advertise on the Viber app

cookie1977

True and that maybe the case but then people will switch to tango or other software. They may go down the skype route of charging for calls to fixed line numbers

Mellor

trad wrote: »

I've got viber on my i-phone.

I have rang my daughter in Australia on her i-phone for free. How can they do that when it costs me money to ring my other daughter down the road?

There has to be a catch

It wasn't for free. It was over the internet, so you were charged just like any other data download/upload. You paid for it, viber just managed it. It was a fraction of the normal per minute rates obviously

banquo

It doesn't cost any more to send data to Australia than it does, say, Cork.

Though they must be losing money.

trad

It crossed my mind that apple could own viber to get more people using i-phones but I'm just a cynic.

kippy

trad wrote: »

It crossed my mind that apple could own viber to get more people using i-phones but I'm just a cynic.

There'd be major issues with the network carriers that sell iphones.....
I doubt any would sell the iphone if that were the case although that mind set may change in future.

BTW, viber is just doing what skype does, not sure why it is such a revelation to some.

Mellor

banquo wrote: »

It doesn't cost any more to send data to Australia than it does, say, Cork.

did anyone sugget it does?

kippy wrote: »

BTW, viber is just doing what skype does, not sure why it is such a revelation to some.

Exactly, but people just get baffled when its on their phone and not the PC

trad

kippy wrote: »

BTW, viber is just doing what skype does, not sure why it is such a revelation to some.

I'm 52 and i've learned that nothing in this life is free, there's allways a catch.

naasrd

trad wrote: »

I'm 52 and i've learned that nothing in this life is free, there's allways a catch.

Not all the time, and I'm not too far behind you age wise. I've used apps that ave given me free calls to the USA without ever costing me a cent. I've deleted them and tried other free apps and am at present calling and texting a friend on his US mobile free from mine using a new one. I use Viber all the time, moved to it from Skype, which I'd been using for years. Total cost to me for all these over the last year...? Zilch, nada, nothing.

Sometimes it's good to see that the glass is half full.

AdMMM

I'd imagine that Viber are currently offering their app for free until they either reach a certain number of users, or until a certain standard of quality in their app is reached. It will be at this stage that they offer their app for subscription, or implement some other method of collecting revenue. Big advantage to this is that they'll have a full featured app with millions of users already built up which puts them in a much better position than a startup who have to start from nothing.

Mellor

naasrd wrote: »

Not all the time, and I'm not too far behind you age wise. I've used apps that ave given me free calls to the USA without ever costing me a cent. I've deleted them and tried other free apps and am at present calling and texting a friend on his US mobile free from mine using a new one. I use Viber all the time, moved to it from Skype, which I'd been using for years. Total cost to me for all these over the last year...? Zilch, nada, nothing.

Unless you somehow get free internet all the time, you paid for the calls that way. Which was the point made earlier.
It's incredibly cheap, but its not free - to explaining to the OP how it works

Eoin

Mellor wrote: »

Unless you somehow get free internet all the time, you paid for the calls that way. Which was the point made earlier.
It's incredibly cheap, but its not free - to explaining to the OP how it works

I think that's being a bit pedantic though. The OP is wondering what Viber get out of it, and that's totally unrelated to what you pay your mobile operator to have internet access.

Unless you exceed your data allocation, then you won't actually have paid any more money to make the call using Viber than if you hadn't made the call.

kippy

trad wrote: »

I'm 52 and i've learned that nothing in this life is free, there's allways a catch.

I get lots of stuff "free".
The main "catch" nowadays in most "IT" things is the advertising.
Some applications use in your face advertising for revenue, others just some more subtle adds.
Stuff that is essentially free, that I currently use:
Skype.
Microsoft Security Essentials
Malwarebytes,
VLC Media player.
GIMP
PICASSA
Cardio trainer
(Lots more "free apps"
The Google Suite of online software, including phone apps, google docs, google books, gmail, calendar etc etc
Facebook.com
Teamer.net
WGT.com (and numerous other online games)
Youtube.com (for music, howto's and improving my own knowledge of varios areas)
HOWSTUFFWORKS.COM
WIKIPEDIA
and on and on and on

Lots of free resources once you have "paid for" your internet connections. The key part of all of them really is that they are either add supported (in the case of most websites) or have some portion of a paid component that people can pay for if they wish.

Theres lots of free stuff out there (a very good stickie thread in the computers and technology forum contains a lot of free software you might need). Stuff you dont pay directly for.

You just got to make sure what you are either downloading and installing, or signing up to is legit - that's where this "free advice" site boards.ie comes in.

coylemj

Mellor wrote: »

It wasn't for free. It was over the internet, so you were charged just like any other data download/upload. You paid for it, viber just managed it. It was a fraction of the normal per minute rates obviously

If he isn't exceeding his monthly data limit then the call was free in the sense that it didn't cost him more than if he didn't make the call.

Saying that it wasn't free is like saying that it costs me money to invite friends to come into my house just because I'm paying a mortgage and house insurance - pedantic in the extreme!

Viber will make money when someone takes them over, same as happened with Youtube and Skype, they're just waiting for someone with a big chequebook.

Mellor

Eoin wrote: »

I think that's being a bit pedantic though. The OP is wondering what Viber get out of it, and that's totally unrelated to what you pay your mobile operator to have internet access.

Unless you exceed your data allocation, then you won't actually have paid any more money to make the call using Viber than if you hadn't made the call.

i was simply explaining to the OP how it works and who pays for the data.
Another user didn't get this so I explained it again.

I never said you paid any more.

coylemj wrote: »

Saying that it wasn't free is like saying that it costs me money to invite friends to come into my house just because I'm paying a mortgage and house insurance - pedantic in the extreme!

There is a difference in explaining it to somebody who asked/didn't understand and being pedantic.

Viber will make money when someone takes them over, same as happened with Youtube and Skype, they're just waiting for someone with a big chequebook.

The fact that they've stated they won't ever charge is a tricky spot. but i'm sure google or who ever buys it won't have a huge problem goinf back on it.

My prediction, viber remains free, service is restricted (calls per day, elngth of call etc)
ViberPro gets released

naasrd

Mellor wrote: »

Unless you somehow get free internet all the time, you paid for the calls that way. Which was the point made earlier.
It's incredibly cheap, but its not free - to explaining to the OP how it works

Nah, you're not getting this. Your focus is so narrow and the only strength in your argument is a jaded, worn and hollow semantic one. By your bizarre yardstick then visiting boards on on iPhone or iPad costs money. Arrant nonsense. What's paid for's paid for, like it or not. To suggest that the use of so something you bought has an extra cost is churlish and beyond logic.

kippy

Ah lads, let it go.

trad

As th OP here lads thanks for the clarity about this. Never though about the data end of things as I do all my browsing at home so I've loads of data stuff available.

I suppose the outcome is that once I pay my bill and I haven't hit my download limit there is no additional charge for the international calls. Wait 'till I try and explain this to my 78 year old mother.

kraggy

Do you and the person you're ringing have to be in wi-fi zones for viber to work?

Or can you be on the street yapping away?

cookie1977

viber works over 3G unlike facetime

Mellor

naasrd wrote:

Nah, you're not getting this. Your focus is so narrow and the only strength in your argument is a jaded, worn and hollow semantic one. By your bizarre yardstick then visiting boards on on iPhone or iPad costs money. Arrant nonsense. What's paid for's paid for, like it or not. To suggest that the use of so something you bought has an extra cost is churlish and beyond logic

You fail to understand the rather simple issue. THe OP wanted to know how it worked. i explain, the OP has since posted in reply.
I never said there was an extra cost, I never suggested there was. You're are jsut being awkward,

cookie1977 wrote: »

viber works over 3G unlike facetime

Speaking of Facetime, I was reading a blog that suggested facetime over 3G would be included with iPhone/iPod 5. A friend beside me commented "makes no difference, skype is just as good and works over 3G"

I don't have a skype account, and never bother with video calls so i haven't a clue. But if Skype works over 3G, doesn't that make Facetime totally useless?

kraggy

So, to get free calls to another iphone, you just download the app, go into and dial the other person's number while in Viber? Is that it?

And they can just answer as normal, or do they have to have the app open when I ring them?

Want to make sure I don't increase my girlfriend's bill by 1000% when I use it to ring Ireland tomorrow..

Also, is it hard to unlock an iphone 4?

cookie1977

Mellor wrote: »

Speaking of Facetime, I was reading a blog that suggested facetime over 3G would be included with iPhone/iPod 5. A friend beside me commented "makes no difference, skype is just as good and works over 3G"

I don't have a skype account, and never bother with video calls so i haven't a clue. But if Skype works over 3G, doesn't that make Facetime totally useless?

Yes the current rumour is that iOS5 will allow facetime over 3G. Skype works over 3G with or without video. I'm sure apple will be able to spin it someway that they were the first to "perfect" video calls over the iPhone no doubt.

kraggy wrote: »

So, to get free calls to another iphone, you just download the app, go into and dial the other person's number while in Viber? Is that it?

And they can just answer as normal, or do they have to have the app open when I ring them?

Want to make sure I don't increase my girlfriend's bill by 1000% when I use it to ring Ireland tomorrow..

Also, is it hard to unlock an iphone 4?

As long as you both have viber you can call each other over data services (which for many is free due to inclusive data allowances in their plans)

No it's not hard to unlock an iPhone. You can jailbreak or ask your network to unlock it for you. What network are you on and are you bill or pre pay?

kraggy

cookie1977 wrote: »

Yes the current rumour is that iOS5 will allow facetime over 3G. Skype works over 3G with or without video. I'm sure apple will be able to spin it someway that they were the first to "perfect" video calls over the iPhone no doubt.



As long as you both have viber you can call each other over data services (which for many is free due to inclusive data allowances in their plans)

No it's not hard to unlock an iPhone. You can jailbreak or ask your network to unlock it for you. What network are you on and are you bill or pre pay?

Thanks Cookie.

But you have to actually go into the viber app to make the call, yeah? Does the person answering have to go into the app to answer it? I presume not?

It will be a Korean iphone. I'm in Seoul. I'm wondering about when I come back to Ireland will I be able to use it there.

cookie1977

You go to the app and make the call. If they have the app then their screen will light up saying in coming viber call and then can accept or decline it.

Viber currently only works with iPhone. If it's an iPhone and it's unlocked so you can use it with an irish sim then yes it'll work

kippy

cookie1977 wrote: »

You go to the app and make the call. If they have the app then their screen will light up saying in coming viber call and then can accept or decline it.

Viber currently only works with iPhone. If it's an iPhone and it's unlocked so you can use it with an irish sim then yes it'll work

Viber also works on android although that may just be a beta at the moment.

cookie1977

Yes it's just a beta but good news for the future

http://www.viber.com/download

Mellor

cookie1977 wrote: »

Yes the current rumour is that iOS5 will allow facetime over 3G. Skype works over 3G with or without video. I'm sure apple will be able to spin it someway that they were the first to "perfect" video calls over the iPhone no doubt.

Ah of course.
I still think Skype will always win out. due to the amount of PCs with it installed. But there's a lot of people out there who will just use go with apple default programs.

Thread reminds me, I should really set up skype

Et Cetera

Mellor wrote: »

Ah of course.
I still think Skype will always win out. due to the amount of PCs with it installed. But there's a lot of people out there who will just use go with apple default programs.

Thread reminds me, I should really set up skype

Yes, but if you use Facetime over 3G whilst disabling the Face aspect of it, it's data based video calling, incorporate this with iMessage and it's Apple trying to remove phone carriers. Everything to data instead of the 'x amount of calls/texts' sham.

kippy

Et Cetera wrote: »

Yes, but if you use Facetime over 3G whilst disabling the Face aspect of it, it's data based video calling, incorporate this with iMessage and it's Apple trying to remove phone carriers. Everything to data instead of the 'x amount of calls/texts' sham.

Its not just apple......this kinda stuff has been around years but mobile carriers are not very willing to see it proliferate (I believe SIP/VoIP are even disabled on some mobile data connections.
Phone networks will be very slow to allow this kind of technology to gain the upper hand.

cookie1977

I dont know. I think we're seeing the networks slowly realise that data is the future. They are moving to fully monetising data by cutting allowances and selling customers larger data add-ons.

Dr Nic

Can someone clear this up?
Someone told me recently that viber was totally free.
I thought it wasnt, thinking its just skype with a different hat on. So you're paying for the megabytes of data you send which viber converts using VOIP.
But, i was over ruled by someone saying - no vibers is completely free

EoghanConway

kippy wrote: »

I believe SIP/VoIP are even disabled on some mobile data connections.

UDP, on most networks.

cookie1977

Dr Nic wrote: »

Can someone clear this up?
Someone told me recently that viber was totally free.
I thought it wasnt, thinking its just skype with a different hat on. So you're paying for the megabytes of data you send which viber converts using VOIP.
But, i was over ruled by someone saying - no vibers is completely free

It uses data so if you pay for data you pay for viber. Most people have a data allowance. If you're with three it may even be unlimited. And in that sense it costs those people nothing extra.

Viber

Hi all,
This is a member of the Viber Development Team.

I'd like to refer to your questions and concerns in this thread:

Viber is a free service - both the application itself and its features inside.
Further, I’d like to reiterate the five commitments we made when we launched the company:
1. The Viber software will always be free.
2. Viber for iPhone and Android (and soon for other devices) will never display any ads.
3. Viber to Viber calls will always be free.
4. Viber to Viber text messages will always be free.
5. We will never sell, rent or in any other way abuse your personal information.

I would like to clarify: we DO NOT sell users' information to third-parties, and we DO NOT benefit from cellular calls you make using the "normal call" feature inside Viber (that diverts the call to be a regular, cellular one).

So why is Viber free?
For now, Viber's focus is on adding platforms, adding features (such as text messages) and improving overall system performance. At the same time, we are working on additional future premium services that will generate revenues. The basic Viber service - Viber to Viber phone calls and text messages - will ALWAYS be free.

If you have any more doubts, feel free to ask
Regards,
Viber.

Gregor Samsa

cookie1977 wrote: »

According to their founder they haven't decided how they'll make money

Oh man! I'm around long enough to remember the first time this happened. Take a seat by the fire, kids, and listen to ol' grandad Phutyle's internet war story.

Once upon a time, there was the dot com bubble. The business model was a bit like the underpants gnomes in Southpark. People assumed that money could be made on the internet, so doing business on the internet would make you money. So, it didn't matter what you spend, or how little you charged - you were on the internet and money would appear somehow. Some venture capitalists seemed to think this all made sense, and actually threw money at these companies, and decided to leave such insignificant details as "making a profit" off to some unspecified point in the future.

Then reality hit. Everything dot-bombed around 2000, and investors began to realise that maybe it would be a good idea to know where your profits might come from before throwing millions at yet another "portal".

A few years passed, people forgot the dot-bomb era, and then Web 2.0 came along (exactly the same as Web 1.0), and with it, social networking, VOIP, microblogging, etc. People love social networking, free calls, and all that, right? So we can provide a free service and get loads of people to use it! And if people use something, then it must be valuable, right?

Wrong.

Basically, the business models of a lot of these companies seems to be "get users, sell ourselves to someone who sees a way of making money from these users". And it works for some. The founders of MySpace made $580 million from it's sale to News Corp in 2005. Not bad at all. Of course, News Corp sold it for $35 million last week, after pumping who knows how many millions into it over the past 6 years. So, maybe there's another dot-bomb on the horizon? Those who forget the past are condemend to repeat it.

Now, get off my lawn.

Mellor

Mellor wrote: »

i
My prediction, viber remains free, service is restricted (calls per day, elngth of call etc)
ViberPro gets released

Viber wrote: »

So why is Viber free?
For now, Viber's focus is on adding platforms, adding features (such as text messages) and improving overall system performance. At the same time, we are working on additional future premium services that will generate revenues.

:D:D

phutyle wrote: »

Basically, the business models of a lot of these companies seems to be "get users, sell ourselves to someone who sees a way of making money from these users". And it works for some. The founders of MySpace made $580 million from it's sale to News Corp in 2005. Not bad at all. Of course, News Corp sold it for $35 million last week, after pumping who knows how many millions into it over the past 6 years. So, maybe there's another dot-bomb on the horizon? Those who forget the past are condemend to repeat it.

But that's complete different.
MySpace failed because facebook was better.
Facebook has huge avertising revenue from all that nonsense that appears to the left.

Viber has said that won't advertise. They could of course go back on their word, but that would alienate users and therefore cause the value (to a new owner) to crash.
I preduicted a Pro version, the post above confirmed that they are working on it. This appears to be the newest model for onlines business.
Get a great idea
make it free and get everyone using it
Get a better version and make it a paid Pro version. (look at IMDB)

Notice they never said that the free version would always be unlimited.

Viber

But your prediction wasn't accurate
We won't restrict it to a limit of calls per day, as you suggested.

Our basic services will be open and free for all, unlimited.
IN ADDITION, we will have payed premium services.

Gregor Samsa

Mellor wrote: »

But that's complete different.
MySpace failed because facebook was better.
Facebook has huge avertising revenue from all that nonsense that appears to the left.

Viber has said that won't advertise. They could of course go back on their word, but that would alienate users and therefore cause the value (to a new owner) to crash.
I preduicted a Pro version, the post above confirmed that they are working on it. This appears to be the newest model for onlines business.
Get a great idea
make it free and get everyone using it
Get a better version and make it a paid Pro version. (look at IMDB)

Notice they never said that the free version would always be unlimited.

My point in mentioning MySpace was that the business model of "build it up and sell it", while popular, isn't sustainable. You're right that MySpace failed because it wasn't as good as Facebook. And it happened pretty much in the blink of an eye. Which just goes to show how fickle (or savvy) users are. They'll move on to the next big thing, and toss you aside like a used tissue. And once they're gone, you're a has-been, and you'll never get them back. Seeing how Facebook fare over the next decade is going to be very interesting. Google have tried about 4 times now to release a "Facebook killer", and have fallen flat on their faces each time. And you would think if anyone can unseat Facebook, it's Google. But Facebook's popularity is a lot to do with fashion - it's the place to be, because everyone else is there. Next generation coming up might not be so happy to be "friends" with their parents and annoying aunts. Facebook's killer will probably come completely out of left field, and I'm sure a lot of wealthy people are pumping a lot of money into a lot of startups, hoping that they'll somehow strike lucky.

As for the "pay for pro" business model (which I don't really think is new, by the way), at least that's a good honest way of trying to make money: Charging for a service. But the problem is that you all it takes is for a competitor to do for free (while they figure out a way to make a profit) what your pro version does for 9.99 a month, and whooosh!, off they go. Pay for pro can work well, if you have a product that users are loyal to, but that loyalty is really hard to come by in the online world of "free".

I doubt very much that IMDB makes a clear profit from the Pro version subs, but that's hardly important. IMDB are owned by Amazon, so the original owners made their money already, and Amazon gets to use it as an advertising space for DVDs (as it uses Digital Photography Review for advertising cameras). It's just a cog in a bigger machine.

Advertising really is where it's at when trying to make money off free stuff on the web. The only problem is, only so many people can do it successfully at any given time. So be successful in making money from ads, you need to be sticky - which means your users are on your site/app/platform all the time, and not someone else's. Facebook get this, and have been freakishly good at keeping eyeballs on their pages. Google (through embedded Google Ads) have even figured out a way of making money when people go off their site. But the opportunities for these kinds of revenues from advertising are limited, and the success stories few and far between.

Anyhoo, best of luck to Viber, and hopefully they figure out a way of making money in this game.

trad

Viber, OP here.

Any release date for the blackberry app? Wife and other daughter just bought blackberrys and wee all want to have access to viber (I know, they should have bought i-phones)

cookie1977

trad wrote: »

Viber, OP here.

Any release date for the blackberry app? Wife and other daughter just bought blackberrys and wee all want to have access to viber (I know, they should have bought i-phones)

No they shouldn't, BlackBerry's are great :P But I second the query

Mellor

Viber wrote: »

But your prediction wasn't accurate
We won't restrict it to a limit of calls per day, as you suggested.

So I was half right :D:D

phutyle wrote: »

Google have tried about 4 times now to release a "Facebook killer", and have fallen flat on their faces each time. And you would think if anyone can unseat Facebook, it's Google.

Latest attempt was out this week "Google+"

I doubt very much that IMDB makes a clear profit from the Pro version subs, but that's hardly important. IMDB are owned by Amazon, so the original owners made their money already, and Amazon gets to use it as an advertising space for DVDs (as it uses Digital Photography Review for advertising cameras). It's just a cog in a bigger machine.

I was jsut using IMDB as an example of a site that built up a huge user base first then brought pro features. Without the user base they profeatures wouldn't have gotten exposure.
I doubt its much of an earner, very small percentage of people use it I imagine. Mostly industry professionals at a guess.

And agreed, best of luck to Viber

trad

cookie1977 wrote: »

No they shouldn't, BlackBerry's are great :P But I second the query

They bought the wrong phone for free call to Australia. Blackberry's are great, i've never seen the wife so interested in a phone.

MJ23

Havent done a Viber call yet, a friend of mine said it was terrible, said it was like talking to someone in outer space, time delay, could barely hear other person etc.

kippy

MJ23 wrote: »

Havent done a Viber call yet, a friend of mine said it was terrible, said it was like talking to someone in outer space, time delay, could barely hear other person etc.

Thats rarely the fault of the app itself but more to do with the data connection on your phone and that of the phone you are calling at the time of the call - same as any call over the internet.

naasrd

phutyle wrote: »

...So, maybe there's another dot-bomb on the horizon? Those who forget the past are condemend to repeat it.

There has to be one on the way, the recent valuation of Facebook is all you have to look at. Either the people who make these valuations were kids when the last one happened and don't know about it or think it can never happen again.

Viber

MJ23 wrote: »

Havent done a Viber call yet, a friend of mine said it was terrible, said it was like talking to someone in outer space, time delay, could barely hear other person etc.

As kippy mentioned, the problem you are describing is usually caused by the fact that 3G networks are a little disrupted in quality. Try it a Viber call between 2 WiFi connections and see what the quality is like.

trad

And the release date for the blackberry app?

Viber

trad wrote: »

And the release date for the blackberry app?

Viber for Blackberry is planned, but we don't know yet when it will be ready. The reason for the delay is that Blackberry is much more technologically complex than iPhone or Android (it doesn't support VoIP basically).

We started putting more focus on it in the past few weeks, and if we have any news, we will announce it.