Gerry Adams, the IRA and revolutionary movements in Ireland

ECF

The theory of Gerry Adams being a British agent is at this stage more realistic than theoretical. Upon looking into such issues I learned there is substantial evidence to suggest that De Valera was similarly a British agent. Writer Tim Pat Coogan supports this argument

Many writers, historians and bloggers would argue that a lot of the revolutionary movements in Ireland against British rule were fomented and controlled by the British.

There are also theories that the split between the Provisional and the Official IRA was due to the weight thrown behind the Provisionals whose views were deeemed more favourable to the wealthy land and business owners who saw Cathal Goulding's (Official IRA leader) agenda as communist in nature.

Anyone have any further beliefs or proof of of these realities?

CokeyBear

The only thing I can see which completely refutes these claims is The Troubles made Northern Ireland economically nonviable and ruined any hope of foreign investment on a large scale, pretty much denying any idea of them being scared of a Communistic OIRA as it would have done more harm than good favouring the PIRA.

Wolfe Tone

Read up on "J118" A supposed British agent high up in the IRA. Some say its McGuinness.

Anyway I think both are rubbish, and to say that it is "realistic" that Gerry is a British agent, is crap, imo.


I wouldn't say that caused the split, that was bound to happen tbh Problems with the Dublin based leadership etc.

ECF

When the split happened in 1969 I don't think anyone could have foreseen the extent to which The Troubles would escalate, rendering the six counties non viable in economic terms.

Moreso it was fear of a communist movement throughout the whole country, as the IRA largely belonged to the 26 counties in the late 60's, that gave cause to the fomentation of a split. If ever they were to have succeeded without a split happening, a communist Cuba could have evolved at Europe's back door.

Ed Moloney provided a lot of credible evidence regarding the agendas of Adams. Provisional grassroots largely disagreed with the 1994 ceasefire.

ECF

http://www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/briefhistoryireland.html

Came across this last night. Might help provide some other interesting insights. Surely there are more people with opinions on this matter?

studiorat

Michael Tsarion and the IRA? I'll save that one for later

I've found the text for a leaflet that floating around Derry a while back on the matter. I'll try and verify it later on today.

paky

i dont think one individual would make much difference to the direction in which the republican movement was headed. you have to look at the larger picture and understand that the times produce the man and not the man produces the times. a british agent so high up in the republican movement would be a valuable asset to the brits but still the ira was controlled by a 7 man army council.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Have heard the Official/Provisional split was encouraged alright out of fear we'd be Europe's Cuba.

Not inclined to believe it though. The explanation that the officials were wary of getting involved in sectarian clashes seems a lot more plausible to me.

Also I do not believe the socialist rhetoric associated with republicanism. You often hear people quote Connolly saying a capitalist independent Ireland would be no better than British rule, however I don't buy it. I think most people supported and joined Sinn Fein/PIRA did so for independence, not socialism. So I don't think it would have kicked off. The IFA would probably have joined forces with the loyalists if the state tried to nationalise their land!

There were some of course who held socialism as high as independence, seemed really important to Brendan Hughes from stuff he's written. And I think the modern day version would be Eirigi supporters, but Sinn Fein? no, don't see them as socialist at all.

On the agents thing. For some reason my instinct says McGuinness may have been.

Torakx

I honestly havent done much research on this topic.
I learned most of the garbage on this subject in school and through the movie.
I do think considering all the other terrorist organisations and especially the recent troubles in afghanistan that it would be foolish for me to think that the irish group, named terrorists were not being watched very very closely at the least and most likely in my mind were controlled and lead by british or american agents/interest groups.

Take a look at alot of plitical groups in Ireland recently that have started up with a righteous cause and then strangely turned a bit rogue getting agrressive and doing pretty stupid things,which in turn has lead to them being split or disbanded...Anyone think this happens naturally?
I dont.And so i feel the same about any terrorist labeled groups.
If the IRA decided to have a peaceful protest somehow i am pretty sure it would still be turned into a terrorist group no matter what the original leaders wanted.
Why else would "irish men" go bomb irish peoples towns and public hotels and buildings in england when they could have fought a war against the real threats to the countries unity.
I have worked with older lads in factories up north who spent time in prison for bombing hotels and they are genuine in their feelings and patriotism for ireland.I do however doubt the leadership of such groups as being genuine at least not after its had time to be infiltrated.
But its just a hunch on my case and a bit of personal experience talking to the people involved on the front lines.

keitho h

well experience in Ireland of every IRA EVER had been infiltrated and or controlled be it PIRA up to 1998 then the RIRA the groups of today are about Money not patriotism look at Dublin up to there eyes with the crime gangs as for Gerry Adams there is a ? about him

ECF

It's also important to bear in mind that the Irish Civil War was also a battle between those who wanted a socialist republic and those that didn't. Many of Anti-Treaty fighters went to fight in the Spanish Civil War to find the Socialist Republic that had not been achieved in Ireland after Independence.

Monty Burnz

ECF wrote: »

It's also important to bear in mind that the Irish Civil War was also a battle between those who wanted a socialist republic and those that didn't. Many of Anti-Treaty fighters went to fight in the Spanish Civil War to find the Socialist Republic that had not been achieved in Ireland after Independence.

And of course many went to fight against it - the fear of 'godless communists' was huge in those days.

ECF

Hence the possibility of the Civil War having been fomented by the British in an attempt to quell the socialist republicans.