legal to fine a shop lifter?

spunk_monkey

Hi,

My friend runs a business, and regularly catches thieves stealing from him.

When confronted, thief usually denies until they are shown cctv footage, the they produce what they attempted to steal appologising,'' please let me go , dont call the police etc etc''

Security then arrive, and make the theif pay for what they attempted to steal, theif gets to keep item, and is then barred from the shop and shopping centre.

Thers is the option to call the police, but it happens alot and friend desn't have time to be going to court regularly.

I feel that the theif gets off far too easy in this case, we were discussing this, and since the thief seems to fear the police being called, would there be any legal issue with telling them there is a 100 euro fine for stealing, otherwise police are called?

I'm guessing it's not legal, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

BrianD

You need to have a legal framework to have fines e.g. laws or bye laws.

Any other fines tend to be a situation of an association where all the parties are a part of it and have agreed to them e.g. sporting bodies.

I can't see a situation where a retailer could fine a shop lifter and enforce the fine if not paid.

spunk_monkey

BrianD wrote: »

You need to have a legal framework to have fines e.g. laws or bye laws.

Any other fines tend to be a situation of an association where all the parties are a part of it and have agreed to them e.g. sporting bodies.

I can't see a situation where a retailer could fine a shop lifter and enforce the fine if not paid.

hi,

thanks for the reply. I am pretty sure if a shoplifter was faced with the fine or the police, they would take the fine, however, really what I'm asking is, if the shoplifter refused to pay fine, police were called and in court, if the shoplifter claimed that the shopkeeper tried to fine him, could the shopkeeper get in any trouble?

Mena

Sounds almost like blackmail or extorion to me.

Our man in Havana

No one has the authority to fine anyone except the courts. The Gardaí can only issue fixed penalty notices which are not strictly fines at all. They are just an option to dispose of an allegation without going to court.

This sounds like a classic case of blackmail to me.

drunkmonkey

There should be a fixed penalty in place for little crime much like a speeding fine.
The current system through the courts is a joke.

Shelflife

Sailing too close to blackmail for my liking, its a plague on retail at the moment, theres alot of shoplifting going on at the moment and the burden of proof on the retailer is huge.

Its just not worth the retailers while to involve the authorities where some one steals items under €20 even though it may be happening on a regular basis.

in our locality we had a well known shoplifter whos sentence was consitional that she stay out of elverys and supervalue (seems that the rest of us were fair game).

Maybe if they had a proper fine €500 and a cage of shame where convicted shoplifters and petty criminals were locked into in their home town every weekend, maybe that would have some effect.

we need a deterrent and a proper penalty for petty crimes.

TheInquisitor

There is a thing called a Civil Recovery. I'm looking at the same thing for my store. Sick of dealing with people stealing 5-10 pounds worth of stuff. Taking up hours of my time dealing with CCTV and police.

The key to this is charging the person stealing the items from you for the time spent apprehending them and dealing with gathering the evidence.

If they don't pay you give the debt over to a debt recovery agent.

Elmidena

Sounds too much like extortion and Yakuza territory to me, and I'd imagine that any trouble lessened would only explode further down the line

Our man in Havana

TheInquisitor wrote: »

There is a thing called a Civil Recovery. I'm looking at the same thing for my store. Sick of dealing with people stealing 5-10 pounds worth of stuff. Taking up hours of my time dealing with CCTV and police.

The key to this is charging the person stealing the items from you for the time spent apprehending them and dealing with gathering the evidence.

If they don't pay you give the debt over to a debt recovery agent.

Who is powerless to do anything. This sort of crap was tried in the UK and where the alleged offender holds firm and does nothing, they simply drop the matter as no court in the land will entertain such bullshlt claims.

TheInquisitor

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Who is powerless to do anything. This sort of crap was tried in the UK and where the alleged offender holds firm and does nothing, they simply drop the matter as no court in the land will entertain such bullshlt claims.

Absolutely right. Its never been tested in court. I've personally fined 2 people for shoplifting. 1 person i fined him the value of the goods. He paid and i kept the goods. The second i fined him the value of the goods and all the rest of the money in his wallet. (About a tenner). He also paid

Hey it works , pays for the wasted time and makes sure the scum don't come back.

TheInquisitor

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Absolutely right. Its never been tested in court. I've personally fined 2 people for shoplifting. 1 person i fined him the value of the goods. He paid and i kept the goods. The second i fined him the value of the goods and all the rest of the money in his wallet. (About a tenner). He also paid

Hey it works , pays for the wasted time and makes sure the scum don't come back.

Advising someone to do this is incredibly dangerous as it could, in all likelihood, be a criminal offence. Neither you nor the OP should do this in future.

TheInquisitor

On both occasions I've done it in the presence and with the support of police. I can't see how it could be construed as a criminal offense. I'm charging them for my time.

TheInquisitor

TheInquisitor wrote: »

On both occasions I've done it in the presence and with the support of police. I can't see how it could be construed as a criminal offense. I'm charging them for my time.

What if they refuse to pay?

Our man in Havana

Deleted User wrote: »

What if they refuse to pay?

A very sticky wicket would ensue me thinks.

TheInquisitor

Deleted User wrote: »

What if they refuse to pay?

They would have been arrested by the police on the spot. Charged and convicted

RangeR

TheInquisitor wrote: »

I'm charging them for my time.

Did you issue a receipt?

Our man in Havana

Then it is blackmail.

TheInquisitor

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Then it is blackmail.

Its another better option for them. Rather than possibly going to jail they pay a fine. Its their choice!

Zambia

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Then it is blackmail.

I could not agree more I am hoping this is a wind up.

TheInquisitor

TheInquisitor wrote: »

They would have been arrested by the police on the spot. Charged and convicted

Has to be a wind up. That's pretty much textbook blackmail.