Professional Cycling Sub-Forum.

bamboozling

After a chat with Gavin I've decided to submit this idea to the masses.

How would the users of the cycling forum feel about a Professional Cycling sub forum?

I like professional cycling and try and watch as many races as possible. However when I try to find topics related to professional cycling it can be quite difficult as they get swallowed up by the mass of club cycling and general bike user threads.

A professional sub forum would be a great idea in my opinion, threads would get a longer life span and it would make the forum run better.

Right now the 'Where will Cav be next season thread' looks hopelessly out of place in between the 'Drogheda Wheerlers' and 'Dublin Night Cycle' threads.

The Cycling adverts and cycling logs have benefited the forum and I think a professional cycling sub-forum would do likewise.

If people want to look at professional cycling they will go there, and if they want to view your other cycling related topics they will go to the main forum.

I don't see it changing the dynamics of the forum in any way.

Discuss.

Rovi

I like this idea!

How about perhaps rolling amateur racing threads into it too, or might that be something for another sub-forum???

Lumen

Everyone wants a subforum to shield them from crap they're not interested in.

If anything, we should have a What Bike subforum. Really, I don't care how people spend their BTW voucher, and I particularly couldn't give a shoite about the differences between Trek, Giant and Lapierre.

But that's just me.

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

Everyone wants a subforum to shield them from crap they're not interested in.

If anything, we should have a What Bike subforum. Really, I don't care how people spend their BTW voucher, and I particularly couldn't give a shoite about the differences between Trek, Giant and Lapierre.

But that's just me.

Tend to agree with this. Everyone needs to start somewhere but every second thread nowadays is a very basic (and easily googled) question about starter bikes, btw scheme, bibshorts and boxers and how to fix a puncture......

ktz84

So what should this forum be about? I thought it was about those that wanted to know the answers to seek "answers" from those supposedly know better? If the beginner can't ask the questions that concern them then personally I would rather close all public cycling forums. If you want exclusivity set up and a google group and vet the membership!

Captain Havoc

We have in the past discussed this and I for one am against it. In a lot of cases sub forums can unnoticed due to lack of interest, so whilst it looks like a good idea I feel due to lack of updates people won't click in there. I can understand though how frustrating things can get during the Tour de France when the average life expectancy of a thread on the front page is three hours without a response.

A second point is due to the seasonal nature of the sport coming into the summer we get a lot of newcomers in. For those of us that have been around here for a couple of years, we do see the same threads coming around, I particularly don't ever want to see a helmet debate ever again due to the inharmonious repetitive nature of them and their potential for infractions. For the colder six months of the year, between San Remo and the Tour Down Under, there's very little happening.

I think also we must question why soccer doesn't have a professional or amateur sub forum, it being the largest sports forum on boards, GAA doesn't have a hurling or gaelic football forum, or inter-county forum. The sports forums the do have sub forums are Airsoft: their ads sub-forum is very active, as is our own, their events, reviews, airsoft websites and retailers sub forums are very slow, questions and technical are active enough as in the oldest post on the front page are from June. Shooting also has a couple of sub-forums which are active enough.

My final point, is that we've a nice community here, which may split if we've sub-forums and I don't think we should be knocking those who want basic information, we were all there at some point or another and I think some of Irish cyclings best brains are here for all to pick.

on_the_nickel

What the Captain said. I prefer a general chat, with a mix of topics, rather than having to click to another sub-forum.

ktz84

Can posting on the cycling section be stopped instead the user is presented only with the sub forums and therefore they can only post by clicking into one of those sub forum. If boards.ie cycling section can be configured like that then you eliminate the problem of top posting and making the sub forums largely unused.

Beasty

I was drafting something pretty much along the lines of the Captain's post above. To emphasise one of his points, check out other forums where they have created additional sub-forums to cover specific areas, such as motoring and soccer - you will see there is one dominant sub-forum, with the others hardly getting a look-in. Add to this the fact that "professional racing" is largely seasonal, and I think a sub-forum would not get anything like the activity this aspect of the sport currently gets (some posters will simply stick to the one forum or sub-forum, however configured)

ednwireland

to be honest, there isnt that much interest outside the tour, just look how many post were made on the tour de siusse or dauphine (i watched both)


now c'mon

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think some of Irish cyclings best brains are here for all to pick.

Lemag

I'm not sure how it would work but how about 'bike recommendation' superthreads. Something like a 'sub €500' thread, a '€500-€1000' thread and so on. And maybe a 'bike2work' thread. With these a lot of the clutter could be cleared up.

EDIT - the insertion of a 'stolen bikes' superthread was debated and shot down a fair bit before it was set up. I don't know if it has been particularly helpful to those who've had their bikes nicked but it has helped to clear up the forum somewhat which I consider to be a success. However, if I get one of my bikes stolen I may change my tune ;-)

ktz84

The argument goes that sub forums are under used becuase one always dominates. I would say that appropriately divisioned forums would only be under used where they were permitted to ie lack of appropriate moderation. That type of moderation is no different than merging threads.

ROK ON

Philippe Gilbert won again today. What an amazing winning streak.
He won on a bike that many People have recommended in the what bike threads that appear daily at this stage.
That is all.

Lumen

ktz84 wrote: »

So what should this forum be about? I thought it was about those that wanted to know the answers to seek "answers" from those supposedly know better? If the beginner can't ask the questions that concern them then personally I would rather close all public cycling forums. If you want exclusivity set up and a google group and vet the membership!

The forum is about whatever you want it to be about. That's the point :-)

Captain Havoc

ktz84 wrote: »

The argument goes that sub forums are under used becuase one always dominates. I would say that appropriately divisioned forums would only be under used where they were permitted to ie lack of appropriate moderation. That type of moderation is no different than merging threads.

Wha? So by your theory nobody has posted in the Go Ahead Eagles sub forum in a month because of poor moderation as opposed to the fact few people in Ireland gives two hoots about Dutch Football and even fewer give it about Go Ahead Eagles.

bamboozling

If not a sub forum is there anything to be said for a general professional cycling news sticky, kind of super thread. Instead of having small threads get lost in the midst of the other threads one general thread for general news, discussion and debate?

Captain Havoc

More stickies are out, we've been asked to have 3 stickies (this isn't 100% strict).

ktz84

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Wha? So by your theory nobody has posted in the Go Ahead Eagles sub forum in a month because of poor moderation as opposed to the fact few people in Ireland gives two hoots about Dutch Football and even fewer give it about Go Ahead Eagles.

No - what I said was that the sub forums had to be appropriate so no point in having a sub forum for which there are no posts that could be moved to it and I don't mean that you shouldn't have ones that are seasonal either. So what if it is only used part of the year that's just reflects cycling

bamboozling

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Wha? So by your theory nobody has posted in the Go Ahead Eagles sub forum in a month because of poor moderation as opposed to the fact few people in Ireland gives two hoots about Dutch Football and even fewer give it about Go Ahead Eagles.

The Go Ahead Eagles thing was a fad for a month or so and then died out very rapidly. What we're discussing here is a vastly different animal.

Captain Havoc wrote: »

More stickies are out, we've been asked to have 3 stickies (this isn't 100% strict).

Ok not necessarily a sticky, just a general, catch all, super thread. Would that be kosher?

Captain Havoc

ktz84 wrote: »

No - what I said was that the sub forums had to be appropriate so no point in having a sub forum for which there are no posts that could be moved to it and I don't mean that you shouldn't have ones that are seasonal either. So what if it is only used part of the year that's just reflects cycling

Apologies, I'm going to come back to this when I don't have one eye on the golf.

bamboozling wrote: »

The Go Ahead Eagles thing was a fad for a month or so and then died out very rapidly. What we're discussing here is a vastly different animal.

I used an extreme example. I still don't think the sub-forum would be a success but I've always an open mind so do continue to argue the point, I'm pretty sure my fellow mods are of the same mind.

bamboozling wrote: »

Ok not necessarily a sticky, just a general, catch all, super thread. Would that be kosher?

Personally not against it. If it's a success, great and if it dies a death so be it but I'm not the sole voice. There's very few limitations as to what you can start a thread on. What would you have in mind as a title?

bamboozling

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Personally not against it. If it's a success, great and if it dies a death so be it but I'm not the sole voice. There's very few limitations as to what you can start a thread on. What would you have in mind as a title?

I would have something like Professional Cycling News, Discussion and Debate 2011.

The way I would see it is that it will go either three ways.

Die a death and what about it we tried something new and it failed.

It functions just fine and everyone is content.

Or it is too small and debate becomes stifled as debates move too quickly with three or four debates running simultaneously. Then it would be obviously clear a sub forum would be in order.

We could use this as a trial period and see how it functions for next year.

Beasty

I actually think things are more likely to get missed/lost in a mega-thread than where you have separate threads with (hopefully) self-explanatory titles. The Cavendish one is a classic example - it'e clear what it's about, and anyone interested in him can easily click on it. If it was in a mega-thread many may not bother going into it. It's also much more difficult to track individual topics where you could have 3 or 4 running simultaneously. Even with the major races we end up having separate threads for individual stages.

These threads only really work where there is not going to be a lot of discussion on particular topics (such as images of beauty and the broomwagon, where we would actually start a separate thread if any particular topic got some momentum up)

bamboozling

Beasty wrote: »

I actually think things are more likely to get missed/lost in a mega-thread than where you have separate threads with (hopefully) self-explanatory titles. The Cavendish one is a classic example - it'e clear what it's about, and anyone interested in him can easily click on it. If it was in a mega-thread many may not bother going into it. It's also much more difficult to track individual topics where you could have 3 or 4 running simultaneously. Even with the major races we end up having separate threads for individual stages.

These threads only really work where there is not going to be a lot of discussion on particular topics (such as images of beauty and the broomwagon, where we would actually start a separate thread if any particular topic got some momentum up)

Sorry I should have been more specific.

There would be separate threads for races.

An example of what I mean is that today in the super thread Cavendish would be being discussed. And a separate thread for the Tour of Switzerland would exist.

It's not for races it would be more for news and general discussion, like team moves, can Schlek win the Tour de France, etc.

I envisage that if it is a success people with an interest in professional cycling will click into it every day just to see what is happening.

el tel

Is there a problem to be solved by javing a a professional subforum. Threads about pro racing are so relatively gew and far. Between that they narery register. A subfoeum would be a backwater. I for one would never go there.

Defo too many ctw threads I would say. That should be one for a big clear out imo.

On the whole I think that almost every topic on cycling has been done to death and every question answered, just like it has in most of the magazines you can buy on the shelves. A vast majority of threads would not exist if the OPs bothered to search first.

Really now all i care to read are threads of a more personal nature like events people are planning or riding, local racing, training logs, or about the bikes they own. and the broomwagon.

niceonetom

bamboozling wrote: »

Ok not necessarily a sticky, just a general, catch all, super thread.

Well you can start a thread but we'll decide if it's super or not.

AG2R

Sub forum for races would be great, It's hard to find them in the mass of threads as it is so having a place to find them would be great

Captain Havoc

AG2R wrote: »

Sub forum for races would be great, It's hard to find them in the mass of threads as it is so having a place to find them would be great

I disagree, a race/ stage thread is always on the front page during the race/ stage. The new search facility is also excellent.

ednwireland

bamboozling wrote: »

team moves - create a thread
, can Schlek win the Tour de France create a thread (actually no there already is one
.

if the page is full of these threads continually updated i guess it can be considered then

OT

Captain Havoc wrote: »

. The new search facility is also excellent.

really - i think its terrible

Bunnyhopper

This thread covered quite similar issues to the ones coming up here, I think

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055817979

I said in that earlier thread that I like the single-forum approach. It has meant I've learnt lots of things that I never would have if they'd been buried away in a subforum.

Plus, once you start dividing things up where do you stop? Does the Pro subforum divide into Road, Track, and MTB, with divisions within those for different disciplines?

kona

I agree that something needs to be done about all the questions that should be posed to bike shops ( a la C2W) instead of boards.ie.

Perhaps there should be a Basics sticky or something, somewhere that lists the obvious. But definatley a Big huge c2w one.

RobFowl

No, Just no

AstraMonti

I do agree with a big generic thread about pro cycling with different threads for each stage race but I dislike the idea of another sub-forum.

Lemag wrote: »

I'm not sure how it would work but how about 'bike recommendation' superthreads. Something like a 'sub €500' thread, a '€500-€1000' thread and so on. And maybe a 'bike2work' thread. With these a lot of the clutter could be cleared up.

While I agree with this, I think it will be impossible to make it work because everyone (myself included) thinks their case is different, and the 1000€ bike that you suggested in 74 other situations in 74 other threads are not the same and he has different needs, even if it always ends up in these horrific trek 1.2 and giant defy.

Macy0161

I'm more a lurker than a poster on this forum but a few points I'd make...
1) I do follow pro cycling, but tbh this wouldn't be one of my first ports of call. Not necessarily sure a sub forum would change that, but a "mega thread" would definitely drop it down the list.
2) I'm just getting started again after many years (and many extra pounds!) and have found the Training Log sub-forum very useful
3) Any of the "technical" forums get the same thread topics repeated (I am active on some of the Tech forums and some of the Motors forums) - just a fact of life - you can have as many Stickies and FAQ's as you like, it won't stop it! Search only works if you really know what your looking for.

I wouldn't be in favour of a separate forum as it's a good community here and should remain that way. And on the mega-threads, I'd agree with the comment about how people miss things - I would have gone along to the Lance spin in the Phoenix Park if it wasn't in the 'Lance-watch' thread.

But that's just me.

Tonyandthewhale

I'm agaisnt any-more sub-forums. If there really was enough interest to justify a sub-forum then you would see more threads on pro-cycling and they would garner more interest, but that just isn't the case.
A sub-forum isn't a good way to promote traffic to pro-cycling threads because as is noobs coming in for ctw advice might click on the schleck thread or the like out of curiousity, that's not going to happen if these threads are shunted away to a seperate forum, you're just cutting down the random foot-traffic that gives a forum it's vitality.

corkchef

sounds a lot to me like someone watching tv and is too lazy to change the channel. if you want to talk or read about something, flip some pages!:pac:

we are supposedly cyclists who in the main are meant to be fit!:)