How do I know when he's changed?

kt.alice

Okay, so I was sort of seeing this guy for around two years with no commitment whatsoever. Then, at the start of 2010 we decided to start a real relationship together. It was absolutely wonderful - we were both head over heels for each other, totally in love. It just worked, we liked similar things but were always introducing each other to new stuff, we got on so well, and it was so easy to be together. There was no awkwardness or shyness. We were totally ourselves...

... or so I thought. Let me explain. I've known him for almost six years now (we were friends beforehand) and I've known him through his three other big relationships. He cheated on his second girlfriend with his first, and then on his third with his second and with me. So I knew he was a cheater. But (and I know this will sound cliché) he was different with me. All his friends have commented on it. They say that with any of his previous girlfriends he'd not really talk about them or be more interested in hanging out with the lads. But they say that when he was with me, I was all he could talk about, and he was just different.

Of course, I'm not an idiot, so I didn't let my guard down. I know he's the kind of guy that needs an eye kept on him, but I had fallen in love and was determined to make it work.

In March of this year (a month after our first anniversary) I found pornographic pictures of girlfriend #2 on his computer, just after being deleted (not properly deleted, you see.) He swore they were from years ago, and he'd recently found them and deleted them. Being smart though, I went to her and she said that she'd sent them to him the night before, on his request. When I relayed this to him, he broke down and apologised and begged for forgiveness. I decided I needed time alone (and he deserved it :mad:) so we went on a break for a few weeks. I then cracked and took him back after a load of letters etc from him saying he hadn't appreciated me but now he did blah blah blah. Since then I was REALLY on the lookout for anything sketchy.

At the end of May just there, I found out he'd been talking to her again, in a really flirty, suggestive fashion. She's been out of the country for two months so I know they haven't met up, and there weren't any more pictures or anything, but it was headed that way. I was furious and broke up with him, because I had asked him the day before if he still talked to her and he said he never did.

He's really distraught now, and says that he has no idea why he has destroyed us. He doesn't even like the girl, she's a really nasty person, but she is hot (if very promiscuous and really quite skanky). I know he doesn't like her as a person. He says that he wants to better himself, because he wants me to have the best I can have, and he wants to meet the criteria.

He recently went to a psychologist and is going to start therapy to sort himself out.

The issue is (I know, long post, sorry!) how do I know when he's better? Or should I even bother? I really want to see him again in a year or so and be like "Yep. You're grand now. Let's have the life we planned." But how do I really know? Or can I ever be sure that he won't just flip everything up again?

Really appreciate you reading all that!

booboo88

So you know he's a serial cheater? And you're still contemplating going out with the guy?
Personally your setting yourself up for a hard fall.

Lucyx

kt.alice wrote: »

I know he's the kind of guy that needs an eye kept on him

That says it all for me. Honestly, thats a full time job in itself. I know all relationships need work but theres work and theres WORK y'know.

seenitall

OP, the only way you will know he's "better" is when you are able to trust him not to cheat. Which I don't think will ever happen, tbh. This guy sounds like a very busy man indeed.

Out of curiosity, while g/f no. 2 is nasty, promiscuous and really quite skanky, how would you describe yourself, in view of the fact you enabled him to cheat on no. 3 as much as no. 2 did? (Well, except for: "I'm no. 4", obviously.)

My advice to you is to stop kissing other women's boyfriends (you can see it leads to trouble, one way or another) and to carefully reconsider falling totally in love with any "guy that needs an eye kept on him" in the future.

You never know, a slight change of policy could save you a world of hurt?

greengiant09

agree with the above poster.

once again op, you are like many female posters who come on here with the exact same issues. you meet a guy, fall for him, you know deep down that he's not trustworthy, has cheated and will continue to do so.....but despite all reasoning and logic, you hold out on the idea that his guy will change. you also try to alleviate responsilbilty from him for his past actions by trying to blame another person (the other girl being promiscous).

despite him appearing to want to change his ways, i really find it hard to belive that a psychologist can help him do this. it's not like there's anything mentally wrong with him. in all reality, he probably just wants to score other women and doesn't really want to commit to you.

i think you're being extremely naive if you think, wait a year, he'll be 'fixed'...and then we'll all live happily ever after....

Miss Fluff

kt.alice wrote: »

Okay, so I was sort of seeing this guy for around two years with no commitment whatsoever.

Obviously he couldn't commit when he had a girlfriend already :rolleyes:

He's incapable of being faithful so I sincerely doubt a few sessions with a psychologist are suddenly going to make him all better. And whether this girl he has been cheating with you on is "promiscuous and really quite skanky"....that's incidental. All it says about him is that he doesn't care where he puts it so you might like to think about getting an STD test done rather than blaming anyone but him.

metrovelvet

There is a really interesting chapter in Susie Orbach's book "The Impossibility of Sex" where she is treating a serial womaniser. It give great insight into the dynamic, the vacuous neediness, the chronic seeking of validation etc from this particular man. The chapter is called "The Vampire Casanova."

Yes, they can change, but it might take a really really good and insightful therapist to help them.

Kevin Duffy

This is the epitome of the thinking behind the proverb "If you lose your man to another woman, the best revenge is to let her keep him".

Stop deluding yourself; you can't trust him, the relationship is not healthy and going nowhere.

booboo88

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

This is the epitome of the thinking behind the proverb "If you lose your man to another woman, the best revenge is to let her keep him".

Stop deluding yourself; you can't trust him, the relationship is not healthy and going nowhere.

I love it

kt.alice

Okay, can I just clear up a couple of things here? I never slept with him when he was with his ex. He has never had sex with anyone else while with me or any of his other girlfriends.

The issue here, if you'd read it, is that he talks to other girls inappropriately. He's not even kissed her.

Also, I didn't say I'm blaming her, I was giving reasons why he doesn't like her as a person.

Thanks.

Kevin Duffy

kt.alice wrote: »

.
He cheated on his second girlfriend with his first, and then on his third with his second and with me. So I knew he was a cheater.

kt.alice wrote: »

I never slept with him when he was with his ex. He has never had sex with anyone else while with me or any of his other girlfriends.

Presumably you're using some definition of cheating other than "sleeping" with someone else, but your first statement was quite categorical that he had cheated in the past, which is what people's reactions and advice is based on.

kt.alice

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Presumably you're using some definition of cheating other than "sleeping" with someone else

I am, yes. In person, the most it would be would be kissing. But he'd talk to them sneakily and inappropriately. Making himself feel like a big man, would be the end goal really. This is why I have faith in therapy, as it is not cheating born of lust or unhappiness, but rather of an insecurity.

seenitall

OK, I edited my above post to reflect the updated information. Not much of a change IMO though.

Funny how often in these threads the information given in the OP gets updated/"clarified" when the OP doesn't like the responses they are getting.

Cheating is cheating, OP, and you called it so yourself, so you're just clutching at straws by differentiating between kissing and sex, tbh.

kt.alice

seenitall wrote: »

Funny how often in these threads the information given in the OP gets updated/"clarified" when the OP doesn't like the responses they are getting.

Um, or because they realise that everyone is responding to something that was accidentally implied? I didn't realise that it seemed like he was sleeping around, that's all. :rolleyes:

seenitall

OR because they are not ready to let go of the delusion that their love story with a cheater will end in a happily-ever-after instead of doomed as it is, so they do anything to ensure to keep the denial alive and to get a different set of replies than they've been getting?

But hey, let's not fall out over it, OP. It's just my 2 cents, and as you obviously don't like it, I'll bow out.

Kevin Duffy

kt.alice wrote: »

Um, or because they realise that everyone is responding to something that was accidentally implied? I didn't realise that it seemed like he was sleeping around, that's all. :rolleyes:

Accidentally implied would be a slip of a word or an inadvertant juxtaposition of a phrase or two. This "He cheated on his second girlfriend with his first, and then on his third with his second and with me. So I knew he was a cheater" is four clauses without a word out of place and is quite definitive. If you thought his behaviour was ok, why use the word cheat through your decription?

Your reaction to that being pointed out is somewhat defensive, suggesting that not only have you facilitated his "cheating" up to now, but that you're letting him off the hook again. He didn't just make one mistake or anything, you're describing 3 instances there and that's just what you know of/are telling us. You seem to have deluded yourself up to now and are already laying down the conditions to do so again. I think you had a conclusion in mind that you wanted to hear backed-up and now that you're not getting it, but getting honest advice instead, you're not happy that people are unwilling to co-facilitate your facilitation.

Wompa1

Engaging in an inappropriate relationship with other women is cheating in my book so everything said by others still stands. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Personally I took a chance on a cheater and got burned. No way I'd knowingly do it again!

Firetrap

kt.alice wrote: »

Okay, can I just clear up a couple of things here? I never slept with him when he was with his ex. He has never had sex with anyone else while with me or any of his other girlfriends.

The issue here, if you'd read it, is that he talks to other girls inappropriately. He's not even kissed her.

Also, I didn't say I'm blaming her, I was giving reasons why he doesn't like her as a person.

Thanks.

It doesn't matter whether he slept with any of his new girlfriends while still with his exes. Each time he's breaking up with a girlfriend, he's got a new model lined up and ready to go. The intent to cheat is there and the timing of when he bumps uglies with his new woman is academic.

Seeing as he's got previous when it comes to being emotionally unfaithful to his previous girlfriends, it's not surprising to see that this trend is continuing. It's unlikely that he's going to change.

Neyite

I went out with a guy who was the same. He was seeing someone when we met, but swore that the relationship was fully over and it was a matter of just moving out. Still, I made it clear that nothing would happen between us, as he was still under the same roof as her. So, a few weeks later he told me that she moved out, and he was finishing up his lease and we started to date.

When we broke up, 18 months later, I discovered through a 'friend' of his that the exact same spiel was given to girlfriend after me and it was all utter lies. There was months of overlap between us, and too many similarities to how we got together, so I realised that it probably was his MO in relationships, and he had lied to me and the girl before me from the start.

booboo88

kt.alice wrote: »

He cheated on his second girlfriend with his first, and then on his third with his second and with me. So I knew he was a cheater.

kt.alice wrote: »

Okay, can I just clear up a couple of things here? I never slept with him when he was with his ex. He has never had sex with anyone else while with me or any of his other girlfriends.

The issue here, if you'd read it, is that he talks to other girls inappropriately. He's not even kissed her.

Also, I didn't say I'm blaming her, I was giving reasons why he doesn't like her as a person.

Thanks.

slight contradiction here dontcha think?

fallen01angel

Hi Op,
My advise to you is this,unfortunately your boyfriend has a proven record of cheating,and although he hasn't cheated on you yet,getting an ex to send pics of herself to him is extremely worrying to say the very least.You will never 100% know if he's changed,it's a matter of trust and I think that when it's gone,it's gone and near impossible to get back.
Do you really want to live with the constant worry of is he/isn't he?