fixed charge notice - driving past a red light in terenure??

flashcash5

Hi There,

I got a fixed charge letter saying that i ran a red light in Terenure Road North last week. I didn't get stopped by the law recently and nobody else had my car. I do drive by there a fair bit though.
So can a guard just observe you breaking a light and just write down your number plate and send you a fixed charge? There is no picture of my number plate on the notice so or anything so it can't be one of the cameras. If anything, i might have been amber gambling slightly at worst but i can't remember this incident at all. I'll probably have to wait until i can call them on Monday to find out for sure where this came from.
Does this happen much?

Shield

flashcash5 wrote: »

So can a guard just observe you breaking a light and just write down your number plate and send you a fixed charge?

Short answer, but yes, they can.

flashcash5

so that must have been what happened then. do i have any hope in appealing this and if yes, is anyone ever successful?
I always slow down if it's safe to do so like. If i'm caught in the act speeding, grand, but this is not as simple as that at all.

Shield

If it's just your word against a Garda in such a straightforward matter as you have described, a judge will always believe a Garda. The reason being that an everyday rank-and-file Garda would have no reason to just make up something like that, and a defendant would have everything to gain by lying to avoid the fine and points.

flashcash5

ok thanks for your input.
I'm sure he didn't make up the fact that there was an issue at the junction on that day. It would have been amber when i went through, not red. So if he says it was red, then i have to be lying then according to the judge?
I have no idea where this guard was but i have a feeling he was at the other crossroad where he could have presumed that it was allready gone red.
Has anyone heard of this happening and someone winning an appeal like this? I'm not just trying to get away with points alone, i'm trying to stand up for myself here when i know i'm right.

markpb

flashcash5 wrote: »

It would have been amber when i went through, not red.

You must stop at an *amber* light unless it is unsafe to do so.

A driver of a vehicle approaching traffic lights in which a non-flashing amber light is illuminated, shall not drive the vehicle past the traffic lights, or past traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line] when such sign is provided in association with the traffic lights, save when the vehicle is so close to the traffic lights that it cannot safely be stopped before passing the traffic lights or traffic sign number RRM 017.

(link)

Muckie

Years ago i went thru the lights just as they turned amber.

Got pulled, Garda says to me "Going thru a Red light is a no, no" after he checked my car over.

I straight up said " Honestly Garda it was just gone amber"

Fellow Garda comes over says "Red light". They weren't nasty or anything.

I said "Red light, it was". Weird thing was never got a ticket.

Moral of the story, hard to argue and win with a Garda. Best to stay polite.

Shield

flashcash5 wrote: »

Has anyone heard of this happening and someone winning an appeal like this? I'm not just trying to get away with points alone, i'm trying to stand up for myself here when i know i'm right.

If somebody answers Yes to this question, are you honestly going to give consideration to disputing this in court based on what an absolute stranger wrote on the internet?

My credentials as a police officer can be verified be asking the site owner or either of boards' Community Managers (Dav or Darragh), and I can guarantee you that if you challenge this without anything except the conviction to stand up for yourself, you can expect to receive the full amount of penalty points on conviction (5 points instead of 2), and be required to pay the full fine (€120 instead of €80).

Choose wisely.

Anan1

Shield wrote: »

If somebody answers Yes to this question, are you honestly going to give consideration to disputing this in court based on what an absolute stranger wrote on the internet?

My credentials as a police officer can be verified be asking the site owner or either of boards' Community Managers (Dav or Darragh), and I can guarantee you that if you challenge this without anything except the conviction to stand up for yourself, you can expect to receive the full amount of penalty points on conviction (5 points instead of 2), and be required to pay the full fine (€120 instead of €80).

Choose wisely.

That's definitely a possibility, but can you really say that it's a given? If it were me i'd be trying to have a word beforehand with the Garda who issued the ticket.

Shield

You could do that if you wish, but the clock would still be ticking on the time he has to pay the fine and take the points.

If there's already paperwork done for this one, it would be very difficult for a Garda to find grounds to withdraw (strike out) because questions could be asked by his superiors for doing so. For example, it could look like he discovered it was a friend or something similar, or the Garda would have to admit he made a mistake. I don't know many who will just admit they made a mistake without some very compelling evidence!

Because we can't give legal advice on boards, I'm telling the OP what I would do in this instance, and I'm hoping that he will consider everything I've explained to him before he makes what could be a costly mistake.

Anan1

Shield wrote: »

You could do that if you wish, but the clock would still be ticking on the time he has to pay the fine and take the points.

If there's already paperwork done for this one, it would be very difficult for a Garda to find grounds to withdraw (strike out) because questions could be asked by his superiors for doing so. For example, it could look like he discovered it was a friend or something similar, or the Garda would have to admit he made a mistake. I don't know many who will just admit they made a mistake without some very compelling evidence!

Because we can't give legal advice on boards, I'm telling the OP what I would do in this instance, and I'm hoping that he will consider everything I've explained to him before he makes what could be a costly mistake.

I'll grant you it's a bit of a long shot, but I think there is some middle ground between simply paying the fine and fighting it in court. It's also possible that, having heard the Garda's version of the incident, the OP will realize that they were wrong and will be happy to pay the fine.

mickdw

Sometimes the guardai tend to forget about the whole entering a junction versus leaving a junction rules. For example, where there was a delay turning right due to oncoming traffic or whatever and garda catches a glimpse of the tail end of the move with the lights red and then issues a ticket when in fact the cars coming through on red in the opposite direction would really be to blame for the late exit. I think its quite unfair that a gardas word in enough to convict in these type of cases.

Matt Simis

Surely some evidence is required? What if the Reg number was taken down incorrectly (for whatever reason) by the Garda? What if they are abusing their station (again for whatever reason) and just issuing fines to X person?

It cant be as simple as writing down a reg, recalled from memory and submitting it as evidence. Way too much margin for error and misuse.

Senna

mickdw wrote: »

I think its quite unfair that a gardas word in enough to convict in these type of cases.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Surely some evidence is required?

How else can it work? You cant expect photographic or witness evidence for every offence, a garda's word has to be taken as fact.

bladebrew

Matt Simis wrote: »

Surely some evidence is required? What if the Reg number was taken down incorrectly (for whatever reason) by the Garda? What if they are abusing their station (again for whatever reason) and just issuing fines to X person?

It cant be as simple as writing down a reg, recalled from memory and submitting it as evidence. Way too much margin for error and misuse.

i was thinking the exact same thing, there is a roundabout in cork that i drive through 4 times a day, i would usually see at least one car go through the red lights it could be 3 or 4,
a guy gave me the fingers before because i beeped at him for driving through the red light (my light was green)
any gardai there would need a memory like rain man:)

Senna

bladebrew wrote: »

any gardai there would need a memory like rain man:)

or a pen and note book. They write details down and refer to the note book in court. They dont need to remember every single car/detail.

bladebrew

Senna wrote: »

or a pen and note book. They write details down and refer to the note book in court. They dont need to remember every single car/detail.

good point actually, i just get a little ticked off when my 11 year old saxo can stop at the lights but some 11 reg cars cant:eek:
the gardai dont even need to turn up in court and people can still get convicted:mad: