Solicitors fee for PIAB

Terry Stamp

Hi guys.

A question on my Piab fees from my solicitor.

I was involved in a RTA. I was a passenger in a single vehicle crash. I suffered a number of injuries.

I was awarded circa. 81k. by PIAB which I was happy with.

Solicitor told me he would be charging 14k in fees. He told me if I took my claim to court I would get about 75K but I could be waiting another two years. So I was happy enough to settle up and lose about 8k.

Anyway I met somebody who also used a solicitor for Piab, who told me that charges of 13.3k (vat included) seem very high! I had no idea what the fee should be. In fact some on here have quoted a fee of around 2.5k in a typical case. My case seems to me to be very straight forward. I was a passenger and all the solicitor had to do was straight forward i.e.

His bill was stated as follows:
Taking initial instruction
Correspondence with the Gardai
Corr. with the hospital
Obtaining medical report
lodging claim with Piab
Providing information to Piab in relations to injuries
Providing information to Piab in relations to special damages(Only the cost of x-rays for a piab medical and hospital fees, no loss of earnings as i was paid for the 8 weeks out of work by my boss)
Acceptance and obtaining authorization to pay.


Surely this is a most straight forward case.

I have a feeling I was ripped off? I think I should go to the taxing master.

Also the solicitor never told me how much he would charge which he should. (I only know this recently)

Hippo

On the face of it you wuz robbed. Hourly rate?

Ask to see the file.

Terry Stamp

Hippo wrote: »

On the face of it you wuz robbed. Hourly rate?

Ask to see the file.

They have to provide that? I got a statement of account.

Am i just better going to the taxing master. I really think this solicitor was a total cowboy.

Also do you think any solicitor would help me with this? i presume none would.

drivinivan

OP - when you gave intial instruction to your Solicitor he/she should have furnished you with a letter pursuant to S68 of the 1994 Solicitors Act.
This should have set out the fees he/she intended to charge - on the face of it you have been seriously overcharged and I would suggest reporting the matter to the Law Society if you are not satisfied with the response you have recieved from your Solicitor.

Going through the list of items your Solicitor attended to I would have expected a bill for this work somewhere in the region of €2/2,500 plus vat.

Terry Stamp

drivinivan wrote: »

OP - when you gave intial instruction to your Solicitor he/she should have furnished you with a letter pursuant to S68 of the 1994 Solicitors Act.
This should have set out the fees he/she intended to charge - on the face of it you have been seriously overcharged and I would suggest reporting the matter to the Law Society if you are not satisfied with the response you have recieved from your Solicitor.

Going through the list of items your Solicitor attended to I would have expected a bill for this work somewhere in the region of €2/2,500 plus vat.

Yep. I never got that. But whats to stop this Cowboy saying he did sent it to me? Does he have to register it with the Law society?

drivinivan

At this stage I would simply tell your Solicitor you think the Bill is excessive and you want it reduced dramatically .. if they refuses tell him/her your going to report him/her to the Law Society for over charging and failure to provide the S68 letter in the first instant.

blueythebear

Terry Stamp wrote: »

Yep. I never got that. But whats to stop this Cowboy saying he did sent it to me? Does he have to register it with the Law society?

Then it's your word against his. S68 letters are not registered with the Law Society. Did you sign anything confirming the settlement? If so, that may have included confirmation of your agreement to those fees so that you have no comeback.

THe amount sounds excessive and does not reflect the work done but you would also be paying a premium for the early settlement anyway.

Talk to your solicitor about the bill first of all. No need to threaten him with the Law Society complaint as of yet. If there's no joy there, then follow through with a complaint.

Terry Stamp

blueythebear wrote: »

Then it's your word against his. S68 letters are not registered with the Law Society. Did you sign anything confirming the settlement? If so, that may have included confirmation of your agreement to those fees so that you have no comeback.

THe amount sounds excessive and does not reflect the work done but you would also be paying a premium for the early settlement anyway.

Talk to your solicitor about the bill first of all. No need to threaten him with the Law Society complaint as of yet. If there's no joy there, then follow through with a complaint.

Yeah but surely if his is ripping me off it doesnt matter what I signed?

What can I do if I am not happy with my solicitor’s charges?
A solicitor’s professional fee must be reasonable for the work they have
done.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/pdfs/LegalCharges.pdf

mlumley

I was in an RTA last year and am prersuing a claim. My solicitor sent me a letter to sign which stated thier fee. I think it was €1850. Yooz bein robd mate.:eek:

I will look for the letter later to confirm.

tombren

Terry Stamp wrote: »

They have to provide that? I got a statement of account.

Am i just better going to the taxing master. I really think this solicitor was a total cowboy.

Also do you think any solicitor would help me with this? i presume none would.

If you're going to go down the Taxing Master route, it's a Legal Costs Accountant you'll be wanting, not another Solicitor

They're basically costs experts who appear before the Taxing Master on behalf of Solicitors/lay litigants to argue for and or against costs. They would also be able to give a reasonable idea of the kind of costs that you should be charged for a given case and whether you have been overcharged.

The lack of the S68 letter would definitely work to your advantage on Taxation and the taxing master can take this into account when deliberating on costs

vicwatson

Yep. I never got that.

You never got the section 68 letter? did you pursue the solicitor for it?

Solicitor told me he would be charging 14k in fees.

And you accepted this at the time?

I was in an RTA last year and am prersuing a claim. My solicitor sent me a letter to sign which stated thier fee. I think it was €1850. Yooz bein robd mate.

Obviously every single case is different

Terry Stamp

vicwatson wrote: »

You never got the section 68 letter? did you pursue the solicitor for it?


No I didnt pursue him. I didnt know he had to do this.

And you accepted this at the time?



Obviously every single case is different

No I didnt pursue him. I didnt know he had to do this. Silly I know.


I accepted it at the time because I knew no better. What made me query it was that another passenger in the car went all the way to the high court and "settled on the steps" and his costs were payed by the insurance company. His total legal bill paid for by the insurance company was less than mine!!!!!!! (same solicitor) This happened last week.

obiviously insurance companies aint going to pay over the odds.

blueythebear

Terry Stamp wrote: »

Yeah but surely if his is ripping me off it doesnt matter what I signed?

What can I do if I am not happy with my solicitor’s charges?
A solicitor’s professional fee must be reasonable for the work they have
done.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/pdfs/LegalCharges.pdf

If you signed a piece of paper agreeing to pay that amount, it doesn't really matter what you got charged. You went into it with your eyes wide open and I'm presuming that the solicitor was upfront with you on the charges at the time of signing.

That said, I'd still complain directly to him and then follow that up with a complaint to the Law Society if you have no joy. You can also go to the Taxing Master on it who would be likely to reduce that.

Those fees for a PIAB application are ridiculous. This is the kind of thing that used to happen whereby solicitors took a % of any award received. It's not permitted anymore to calculate fees based on a percentage in contentiuous business but many still do by starting at a fee and reverse engineering the Bill of Costs to reflect this.

Delancey

Are the Taxing Masters decisions legally binding on both parties ?

vicwatson

Yes legally binding on both parties. It can be appealed to court but this rarely happens.

Hippo

Query the fees with the soicitor, ask to see the file and so on. It´ll at least alert him/her to the fact that you´re not happy. These fees are completely unjustifiable. A legal cost accountant can sometimes be a risky course, but there´s no way they´ll be coming out with a figure like that in this case.

vicwatson

These fees are completely unjustifiable.

Chris Hansen

Isnt the idea of PIAB to cut out solicitors?

Hippo

vicwatson wrote: »

Perhaps you didn't read the op.

Terry Stamp

blueythebear wrote: »

If you signed a piece of paper agreeing to pay that amount, it doesn't really matter what you got charged. You went into it with your eyes wide open and I'm presuming that the solicitor was upfront with you on the charges at the time of signing.

That said, I'd still complain directly to him and then follow that up with a complaint to the Law Society if you have no joy. You can also go to the Taxing Master on it who would be likely to reduce that.

Those fees for a PIAB application are ridiculous. This is the kind of thing that used to happen whereby solicitors took a % of any award received. It's not permitted anymore to calculate fees based on a percentage in contentiuous business but many still do by starting at a fee and reverse engineering the Bill of Costs to reflect this.

By law, solicitors are obliged to furnish information about their costs
in writing. The Society publishes a leaflet on solicitors’ charges which is
available from the Society on request.
If you are unhappy with your solicitor’s bill, you have two options:
1. make a complaint to the Complaints and Client Relations Section, or
2. have your bill taxed (see page 10)
If you go to the Complaints and Client Relations Section, the usual
complaints procedure is followed. The Complaints and Client Relations
Section will determine whether the solicitor’s fee is excessive. The bill must
have issued less than five years ago. It does not matter whether you have
paid your solicitor’s bill. If the fee is excessive, the solicitor may have to
refund/waive all or part of his fee.
The Complaints and Client Relations Section can’t look at the
complaint if you have already requested your solicitor to tax the costs.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/complaints/ComplaintsAboutSolicitors.pdf

blueythebear

Terry Stamp wrote: »

By law, solicitors are obliged to furnish information about their costs
in writing. The Society publishes a leaflet on solicitors’ charges which is
available from the Society on request.
If you are unhappy with your solicitor’s bill, you have two options:
1. make a complaint to the Complaints and Client Relations Section, or
2. have your bill taxed (see page 10)
If you go to the Complaints and Client Relations Section, the usual
complaints procedure is followed. The Complaints and Client Relations
Section will determine whether the solicitor’s fee is excessive. The bill must
have issued less than five years ago. It does not matter whether you have
paid your solicitor’s bill. If the fee is excessive, the solicitor may have to
refund/waive all or part of his fee.
The Complaints and Client Relations Section can’t look at the
complaint if you have already requested your solicitor to tax the costs.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Documents/complaints/ComplaintsAboutSolicitors.pdf

If you receive a S68 letter at the beginnning of proceedings and the amount charged is in line with this, you do not have recourse even if you feel the amount is excessive. For example a solicitor can charge a premium for dealing with a particular case particularly quickly. The Law Society will side iwth the solicitor there if a complaint is made and the solicitor has been completely upfront and transparent in relation to fees.

In the absence of a S68 letter, the Law Society may reduce the fees involved if a complaint is made but it very much depends on the circumstances. What would very much go against you is if you acknowledged full and final settlement of the case with the 80k and authorised in writing your solicitor to take 11k in fees (which you appear to have done?). The Law Society would again side with the solicitor in such a circumstance, though would admonish the solicitor for lack of S68 letter and possibly order a part refund.

There has to be some impropriety on the part of the solicitor. High fees in and of itself is not enough. The inidvidual circumstances would have to be looked at in each case.

In your particular case, the fees seem very high and I've said that you should talk to your solicitor about it first of all and if no result, proceed to the Law Society or Taxation.

Terry Stamp

blueythebear wrote: »

If you receive a S68 letter at the beginnning of proceedings and the amount charged is in line with this, you do not have recourse even if you feel the amount is excessive. For example a solicitor can charge a premium for dealing with a particular case particularly quickly. The Law Society will side iwth the solicitor there if a complaint is made and the solicitor has been completely upfront and transparent in relation to fees.

In the absence of a S68 letter, the Law Society may reduce the fees involved if a complaint is made but it very much depends on the circumstances. What would very much go against you is if you acknowledged full and final settlement of the case with the 80k and authorised in writing your solicitor to take 11k in fees (which you appear to have done?). The Law Society would again side with the solicitor in such a circumstance, though would admonish the solicitor for lack of S68 letter and possibly order a part refund.

There has to be some impropriety on the part of the solicitor. High fees in and of itself is not enough. The inidvidual circumstances would have to be looked at in each case.

In your particular case, the fees seem very high and I've said that you should talk to your solicitor about it first of all and if no result, proceed to the Law Society or Taxation.

I see what your saying.

Does the solicitor have to get you to sign and return the Section 68 letter or does he just have to sent it out?

blueythebear

Terry Stamp wrote: »

I see what your saying.

Does the solicitor have to get you to sign and return the Section 68 letter or does he just have to sent it out?

ideally they should be asking you to sign it and return a copy but this is often not actually done in practise. If a solicitor says he sent it out the Law Society will tend to take him/her at his word although it can be verified through subsequent correspondence/attendances with the client on the file.

vicwatson

Perhaps you didn't read the op.

You don't know what work the solicitor did to justify the fee, no more than I do, so you cannot say it's not justified when you don't know what was involved precisely.