UPC: Their FAILURE to add name to bill could end GF's hope of being on my Aussie visa

towers

This is killing me – I’m only posting hoping someone can tell me (maybe a boards.ie UPC custodian) how to sort this. :mad: Sorry for long post but here it goes:

Situation: My company is relocating me to Australia
Dilemma: For girlfriend to be added to my visa we must prove we live together (defacto partnership) for at least 6 months – began doing so April 1st
Solution: Create joint accounts with utilities, bank etc to prove cohabitation
Problem: UPC failed to act on instruction
My initial approach: Rang the customer service line to ask how I add my name to her account – told to post letter with both our signatures– did so towards end of April in time for bill due 7/5/2011
Result: Bill arrives with only her name on it – but I don’t realise till beginning of June this is the case.
Next action: Called them last week only to be told they never received the letter, but that now I can apparently add my name over the phone as long as she’s in the room to confirm. We do so and are told the reprinted bill will be resent by Tuesday/Wednesday this week.
Result: No bill arrives
Next action: I rang today only to be told they can’t add the name to the previous bill – they could only send a copy, but that they can only do so on the next bill. I explain there won’t be a next one, we’ll be in Australia. They say there’s no record of my first request; I say there wouldn’t be because the general customer service line told me I couldn’t do it on her account and that we’d have to post a letter.
Result: THEY WONT REPRINT THE BILL WITH BOTH OUR NAMES AFTER I DID EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD TO – I’ve a meek non-committal effort from the CS rep that she’ll ask the admin dept to maybe write some poxy letter.

The cost of the 30 odd minutes spent on the phone today alone spent talking this through on both sides is exponentially more than if they just reprinted the damn thing with out names as we had arranged.

The capacity to coordinate satellite technology, telecommunications infrastructure and broadband implementation they’ve got – but to simply edited the text on a bill and resend it is beyond them? I don’t believe it.

I really need this bill – ideas anyone?

I should add that we fly in 2 weeks, OH is going to be on a tourist visa till we add her to mine after 3 months in oz - the reason this is important is the Australian immigration folks are brutally strict, thorough and require a lot of convincing about your status as defacto partners - and for them as far as evidence goes nothing beats a joint utility bill!

cookie1977

Have you no other utility bills like elec, gas, waste with both names on it? What about rental/mortgage going out of each others bank accounts? Did you add her to your car insurance as a named driver?

towers

cookie1977 wrote: »

Have you no other utility bills like elec, gas, waste with both names on it? What about rental/mortgage going out of each others bank accounts? Did you add her to your car insurance as a named driver?

We only moved in together on April 1st in order to comply the best we could with the pared down to the bone 6 month cohabitation requirement for my visa - normally it's 12 months.

But what they expect is a bulk of evidence for that time. As it stands we have Airtricity who've bent over backwards to help. We created a joint bank account with unbelievable ease from the good folks at AIB but there hasn't been much action on it - which we're told doesn't sit too comfortably with the Aussie powers that be.

So what you want is as many bits of evidence to counter such concerns - a foundation stone of which would be the UPC bill.

In addition we don't have bin charges, a car or any other sources for joint statements. Regarding rental it was her name on the lease and adding my mine wasn't an option unfortunately - hence the UPC bill's importance

Kensington

Slightly sensationalist title tbh.

Anyway, I don't think UPC do joint accounts in the way you can have joint bank accounts, joint tax credit allowances etc. The bill must be in one name.
Also, they cannot simply change the name on the bill, to change ownership requires you to cease the current account then re-open under the new name. Doing so would then impose a new contract, new minimum term.

There's a rep from upc here on boards, Jason I think, can't link to him unfortunately as on mobile. Fire him off a PM and see what he might be able to do?

cookie1977

but you transferred half the rental into her bank account which she then paid? AIB could write a letter saying that on a monthly basis this occurred.

Cabaal

To be honest some companys just don't have options on their CRM systems to have a joint account,

krissovo

Unless its changed recently I never needed "joint" accounts when similar situation happened to me a couple of years ago. We just needed to have the same address for utilities and our tax address etc.

cookie1977

Kensington wrote: »

Slightly sensationalist title tbh.

Anyway, I don't think UPC do joint accounts in the way you can have joint bank accounts, joint tax credit allowances etc. The bill must be in one name.
Also, they cannot simply change the name on the bill, to change ownership requires you to cease the current account then re-open under the new name.

There's a rep from upc here on boards, Jason I think, can't link to him unfortunately as on mobile. Fire him off a PM and see what he might be able to do?

While I agree it maybe a little.

My:
Elec - bord gais
Gas - flogas
Household Waste - County council
Broadband -UPC

are all in my wife's and my name. And she and I are authorised users of each others mobile phone accounts. I dont know of any company that refuse joint billing even if it's coming from a single bank account.

towers

Kensington wrote: »

Slightly sensationalist title tbh.

Anyway, I don't think UPC do joint accounts in the way you can have joint bank accounts, joint tax credit allowances etc. The bill must be in one name.
Also, they cannot simply change the name on the bill, to change ownership requires you to cease the current account then re-open under the new name.

There's a rep from upc here on boards, Jason I think, can't link to him unfortunately as on mobile. Fire him off a PM and see what he might be able to do?

Thanks for the tip - hands up on the title, when you've tried employing reason, logic and fairness to no end the next step is hyperbole to try and get noticed.

As something of a reluctant expert on names on bills at this stage; i can categorically confirm you can have two names on the bill - you add yours to the original bill payers - no need to cease the account at all

towers

BTW the problem is not that UPC don't do it - it's that they didn't do it when told and now wont do it retrospectively for when it matters

Fey!

Will the Australian authorities accept sworn and notarised statements from you, your partner and various friends and relatives stating how long you've been together and how long you've lived together? They used to do this.

We've had to do this for a few couples who've gotten engaged saying when they bought the ring in order for them to show commitment and get a visa!

Diddler1977

towers wrote: »

This is killing me – I’m only posting hoping someone can tell me (maybe a boards.ie UPC custodian) how to sort this. :mad: Sorry for long post but here it goes:

Situation: My company is relocating me to Australia
Dilemma: For girlfriend to be added to my visa we must prove we live together (defacto partnership) for at least 6 months – began doing so April 1st
Solution: Create joint accounts with utilities, bank etc to prove cohabitation
Problem: UPC failed to act on instruction
My initial approach: Rang the customer service line to ask how I add my name to her account – told to post letter with both our signatures– did so towards end of April in time for bill due 7/5/2011
Result: Bill arrives with only her name on it – but I don’t realise till beginning of June this is the case.
Next action: Called them last week only to be told they never received the letter, but that now I can apparently add my name over the phone as long as she’s in the room to confirm. We do so and are told the reprinted bill will be resent by Tuesday/Wednesday this week.
Result: No bill arrives
Next action: I rang today only to be told they can’t add the name to the previous bill – they could only send a copy, but that they can only do so on the next bill. I explain there won’t be a next one, we’ll be in Australia. They say there’s no record of my first request; I say there wouldn’t be because the general customer service line told me I couldn’t do it on her account and that we’d have to post a letter.
Result: THEY WONT REPRINT THE BILL WITH BOTH OUR NAMES AFTER I DID EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD TO – I’ve a meek non-committal effort from the CS rep that she’ll ask the admin dept to maybe write some poxy letter.

The cost of the 30 odd minutes spent on the phone today alone spent talking this through on both sides is exponentially more than if they just reprinted the damn thing with out names as we had arranged.

The capacity to coordinate satellite technology, telecommunications infrastructure and broadband implementation they’ve got – but to simply edited the text on a bill and resend it is beyond them? I don’t believe it.

I really need this bill – ideas anyone?

I should add that we fly in 2 weeks, OH is going to be on a tourist visa till we add her to mine after 3 months in oz - the reason this is important is the Australian immigration folks are brutally strict, thorough and require a lot of convincing about your status as defacto partners - and for them as far as evidence goes nothing beats a joint utility bill!

But the UPC bill is in her name and the communal address that you share.

Obviously you get bills and statements in your name and address.

This to me would prove you are sharing an address.

You don't need both names on a bill with the one address to prove you are living together.

Multiple bills to the same address some in your girls name and some in your name proves that you are living together.

Diddler1977

Fey! wrote: »

Will the Australian authorities accept sworn and notarised statements from you, your partner and various friends and relatives stating how long you've been together and how long you've lived together? They used to do this.

Yes I was thinking of the same thing. I am sure a sworn and notarised statement would be more trustworthy then a few bills having an added name to them.

towers

Fey! wrote: »

Will the Australian authorities accept sworn and notarised statements from you, your partner and various friends and relatives stating how long you've been together and how long you've lived together? They used to do this.

We've had to do this for a few couples who've gotten engaged saying when they bought the ring in order for them to show commitment and get a visa!

That's part of it - let me show you what we have to do (it's quite a lot to sort out!):

DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OF DEFACTO RELATIONSHIP
If you wish to include a defacto partner in your 457 visa application, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship DIAC will require documentary evidence that you have resided together for the 6 month period immediately preceding the application. The following is an extract of the Immigration requirement:

For de-facto marital relationship, your evidence should address, but is not limited to the following:-

• Financial aspects, such as Joint bank accounts or Joint liabilities such as mortgage or credit card;
• Nature of the household aspects, such as joint residential receipts, joint utilities accounts (electricity, gas, telephone), correspondence addressed to either or both parties at the same address.
• Social aspects, such as indications that the relationship has been declared to other government bodies and commercial/public institutions and authorities and acceptance of these declarations by these bodies, statements of parents, family members, relatives, friends and other interested parties, joint membership of organisations or groups, documentary evidence of joint participation in sporting, social or other activities and joint travel.

Evidence that you and your partner live together; or do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis

jor el

towers wrote: »

We only moved in together on April 1st in order to comply the best we could with the pared down to the bone 6 month cohabitation requirement for my visa - normally it's 12 months.

So, until you found out you were moving to Australia, you didn't in fact live together as de-facto partners. Seems to me that you're trying to blame UPC for your inability to prove you live together with your partner, when you don't actually live with your partner anyway, and have only moved in together in order to satisfy immigration requirements.

If the UPC bill is going to be the only evidence of you and your partner living together, then I would doubt that it alone would be enough for DIAC. If you have no other joint bills, have no joint bank account, only her name is on the lease and you only moved in 2 months ago, then you are not de-facto partners.

towers

jor el wrote: »

So, until you found out you were moving to Australia, you didn't in fact live together as de-facto partners. Seems to me that you're trying to blame UPC for your inability to prove you live together with your partner, when you don't actually live with your partner anyway, and have only moved in together in order to satisfy immigration requirements.

If the UPC bill is going to be the only evidence of you and your partner living together, then I would doubt that it alone would be enough for DIAC. If you have no other joint bills, have no joint bank account, only her name is on the lease and you only moved in 2 months ago, then you are not de-facto partners.

When I go to war I like to be armed with more than a fruit knife - stop casting aspersions on a subject you're cringingly unfamiliar with - it's really not contributing anything.

Though already planning to move in together we hastened the process upon learning of the cohabitation period - the application will only go in at the end of the 6 months (at the beginning of October, onshore, in Australia). At this point in time we will have cohabited for 6 months and will qualify under DIAC rules. This UPC bill from the beginning of the period is very important to backing up a quite right and proper application (in conjunction with our joint bank account).

But all this is immaterial, the fact is we adhered to the procedures and advice of a company to affect a change in our billing in good faith (and time) only to be let down. I am looking to rectify a simple error on their part which just happens to be a major deal for me.

Tarakiwa

towers wrote: »

That's part of it - let me show you what we have to do (it's quite a lot to sort out!):

DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OF DEFACTO RELATIONSHIP
If you wish to include a defacto partner in your 457 visa application, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship DIAC will require documentary evidence that you have resided together for the 6 month period immediately preceding the application. The following is an extract of the Immigration requirement:

For de-facto marital relationship, your evidence should address, but is not limited to the following:-

• Financial aspects, such as Joint bank accounts or Joint liabilities such as mortgage or credit card;
• Nature of the household aspects, such as joint residential receipts, joint utilities accounts (electricity, gas, telephone), correspondence addressed to either or both parties at the same address.
• Social aspects, such as indications that the relationship has been declared to other government bodies and commercial/public institutions and authorities and acceptance of these declarations by these bodies, statements of parents, family members, relatives, friends and other interested parties, joint membership of organisations or groups, documentary evidence of joint participation in sporting, social or other activities and joint travel.

Evidence that you and your partner live together; or do not live separately and apart on a permanent basis

Surely this suggests that you do not need both names on the one utility bill.

If you have letters from work / bank / other utilities to the address and if your GF has similar then you would be covered ........ thats the way I would read it anyway!

dudara

You already said that you have Airtricity - so UPC would just be icing on the cake. Concentrate on getting correspondance to either name but at the same address.

Unfortunately, when they look at the dates, they're only going to see recent dates, and there's not much you can do about that.

Have you added your partner to your tenancy agreement?

Also get her government records, insurance, health insurance etc all changed to the new address. It will all help.

towers

Tarakiwa wrote: »

Surely this suggests that you do not need both names on the one utility bill.

If you have letters from work / bank / other utilities to the address and if your GF has similar then you would be covered ........ thats the way I would read it anyway!

You're quite right - alas all my utility bills stopped once I moved out of my place into hers.

At the end of the day while problematic it isn't fatal; we will find a way. When you're migrating to the other side of the planet your list of **** to deal with is mighty long - when stuff you considered signed, sealed and delivered turns into a cluster**** it's a writhing disappointment.

Dudess

Kensington wrote: »

Slightly sensationalist title tbh.

+1. People really need to stop thinking service providers are directly responsible for their personal concerns.

This seems like a data protection issue and a system one (as suggested by jor el) - it is shabby that you were jerked around and they didn't know their stuff/weren't adequately trained, but they're not ultimately responsible for your visa situation.

keithclancy

UPC Didn't add a name to a bill ... why should a Visa for Australia be their concern.

Its like someone saying its a supermarkets fault they missed their ferry because the queue was too long.

towers

keithclancy wrote: »

UPC Didn't add a name to a bill ... why should a Visa for Australia be their concern.

Its like someone saying its a supermarkets fault they missed their ferry because the queue was too long.

Your right it's not their concern. But I wasn't asking for a favour, I followed their procedures to the letter to sort this out and if they had done the same there wouldn't be an issue. But they did not. That's my point - not that I should be given special treatment.

Ste.phen

It took them a while to actually do it, but our UPC bill name is in the format
Ms X Y and Mr Stephen Z

I agree with other posters, you shouldn't need bills in you and your GF's name as long as some are in one name and some in the other, all at the same address

watna

It's only one bill and in fairness - you should have checked as soon as it arrived at the beginning of May if it was so important.

I'm in NZ on a partnership visa and tbh, one bill won't make a huge amount of difference. It's not going to be the deciding factor. If there's not been much activity on your joint account then you should start using it more. Also, do you and your gf transfer money between you? When I applied for my visa I gave them copies of both our personal bank accounts and highlighted the transactions where we had paid each other money (e.g. flight I'd paid for and he'd given me half the money, times where one of us had paid for a night out and the other had paid half of it back). If you have a joint account start using it and when you get an account in Aus, just get one in both your names.

Are you names on the lease of where you live? That's HUGELY important. When you move to Aus make sure you are both on the lease. Do you both have post sent to your joint address? That shows you've lived together too. Do you have photos of you guys together on holidays/family events. Do you have letters/christmas cards addressed to both of you (I sent Immigration Christmas cards from my granny and things that had both our names in it - I also sent holiday bookings for the two of us and things like that

Seriously, one bill is not going to make that much of a difference and as has been said you are cutting it fine with movng in together just to get the visa. You need to calm down and just do what you can to get as much evidence as possible. Even though you did only move in together to get the visa you are a genuine couple so presumably, if you've been together for a while you have other evidence as well as some bills and bank account.

amdublin

towers wrote: »

My initial approach: Rang the customer service line to ask how I add my name to her account – told to post letter with both our signatures– did so towards end of April in time for bill due 7/5/2011
Result: Bill arrives with only her name on it – but I don’t realise till beginning of June this is the case

3 week delay here on your part. But it's all UPC's fault yeah?

Lookit. You have one address.
You have some joint correspondence to that address.
You have some in your name to that address.
You have some in her name to that address.

See the picture you are painting? I reckon you will be okay.

hmmm

This thread title should be changed. UPC provide TV services, not Australian immigration services.

BrianD

This is not UPCs problem to sort out what you want to use a bill for other than bill you for an amount.

The clincher will be evidence of a joint bank account. You'll need it.

It's unusual to have a joint utility accounts these days it's usually in one persons name. UPC can probably ask additional account holders to the account but the bill comes in one persons name.

If you have she has one bill in her name at the address and you another, that will be probably be enough.

I'd say you'd need to have some sort of affidavit from a solicitor as well.

Make sure you've plenty of "us" photos on your Facebook account!!

Dinkie

I agree with the other posters.

Oz immigration rely on a lot more then 'one bill'. Lots of couples have the bills split in two. I went through this a few years ago and didn't provide any bills. I provided photos going back 3-4 years and some affidavits by some friends / lawyer, etc. They didn't ask for any more then this. We have broken up since then (he is still over there) and that wasn't a problem either - he was able to get his own visa.

Fordey73

Ive been living in Oz ten years and went through the Defacto process with my Australian girlfriend 6 years ago (we have since married). They needed a lot more information than what you are mentioning.

You need stat decs (affadavits) from friends and family confirming your relationship, written statements from both of you describing your relationship, photos, e mails, letters from your relationship. I dont want to be the bearer of bad news but what you are intending to give them just wont cut it Im afraid.

Your GF can keep getting 3 month holiday visas by skipping over to NZ and then after a 12 month period you could apply again to Aus immigration to be added to your visa (I presume its a 457 you are getting?) The issue with this is that she cant work for that period.

be very careful with Australian immigration, they are very strict and on the ball.

best of luck with it all