Buses in Cork Bus Museum Destroyed

parsi

I didn't realise that there was a 400 vehicle bus museum with a few kilometres of Cork.

de paper wrote:

Gardaí probe arson attack on vintage bus museum

By Sean O’Riordan
Wednesday, June 15, 2011
GARDAÍ are investigating an arson attack on a bus museum which is believed to have caused more than €100,000 worth of damage to vintage vehicles.

Three fires were set deliberately at the museum on the outskirts of Glanmire, Co Cork.

A number of fire brigade units fought the blaze and stopped it spreading, but they were unable to save the museum office and 11 British Leyland Tigers, formerly used by Ulster Bus.

Dr Michael Grimes, who runs the museum — the largest of its type in the country — said he couldn’t comprehend why anybody would want to destroy the buses, which were among 400 on display.

"It’s a disaster. It’s heartbreaking. I can’t imagine why anybody would want to do this. The buses are irreplaceable," Dr Grimes said.

"The value of them would be well over €100,000 and the museum doesn’t have insurance for them."

He opened the museum seven years ago and some of the buses on display date back to 1948.

Gardaí believe the fires were started between 11.30pm and 11.40pm last Sunday at the compound at Blossomgrove, Glanmire.

They have sealed off the area for forensic analysis and were yesterday studying CCTV tapes from the site.

"We don’t yet know if the people who did this came on foot or had transport," a garda spokesman said.

They are appealing for anybody who was in the area at the time to contact them, especially if they saw anybody acting suspiciously.

"The place is about a mile from Brooklodge village on the Knockraha road," the garda spokesman added.

Anybody with information is asked to contact Glanmire garda station at (021) 4821002 or Cobh garda station at (021) 4908530.

Picture: Dr Michael Grimes with some of the burnt-out buses at Kells Transport Museum near Glanmire, Co Cork. He estimates the damage at more than €100,000. Picture: Des Barry

This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, June 15, 2011

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/crime...um-157892.html

Terrontress

That's an absolute disgrace.

Michael Grimes puts his heart and soul in to those buses. A lot of the enthusiasts in Northern Ireland don't like him because he preserves the buses 250 miles away but I am sure none of them would stoop to this level.

foggy_lad

Afaik these were used for films etc more than just stored in a traditional static museum setting. heard Micheal Grimes on the radio yesterday saying the busses destroyed could mostly not be replaced:mad:

Cookie_Monster

I hope they catch those scumbags, at least they seem to be fairly sure of time and have CCTV, some hope to get them at least.

Of course that'll never replaced what was destroyed

Losty Dublin

Terrontress wrote: »

That's an absolute disgrace.

Michael Grimes puts his heart and soul in to those buses. A lot of the enthusiasts in Northern Ireland don't like him because he preserves the buses 250 miles away but I am sure none of them would stoop to this level.

The people I know in the bus preservation world have a dislike for him for a lot of other reasons

Regardless, it's a sad this to hear of and an awful thing to have to deal with.

corktina

Yes its an awful shame. It isnt what Id call a Museum but each to his own.

dermo88

I recall this guy Dr Michael Grimes from Irishrailwaynews some years back. He is allegedly banned from Iarnrod Eireann property. He also claimed that Continuous Welded Rail was dangerous amongst other things. In a somewhat similar situation to Dromod and the Cavan and Leitrim situation, one mans scrapyard is anothers museum. Nevertheless, considering the distress this is causing him, it would be distasteful of me or others to engage in sarcasm or schaudenfreuede.

Losty Dublin and corktina only hint at Dr Michael Grimes and the Kells Transport Museum. I just threw some flesh on the bones.

Judgement Day

http://www.kellstransportmuseum.com/

Terrontress

dermo88 wrote: »

I recall this guy Dr Michael Grimes from Irishrailwaynews some years back. He is allegedly banned from Iarnrod Eireann property. He also claimed that Continuous Welded Rail was dangerous amongst other things. In a somewhat similar situation to Dromod and the Cavan and Leitrim situation, one mans scrapyard is anothers museum. Nevertheless, considering the distress this is causing him, it would be distasteful of me or others to engage in sarcasm or schaudenfreuede.

Losty Dublin and corktina only hint at Dr Michael Grimes and the Kells Transport Museum. I just threw some flesh on the bones.

I think that he may have some form of injunction against him as regards Cork Airport. His airport website www.corkairport.info is great. He is not afraid to call things as he sees them.

He has also had issues with Aircoach in the past.

But it is no reason to burn him out. There can be no excuse. And one man's scrapyard need only to provide him with the joy of ownership. Let everyone else clear off!!

LXFlyer

He is what one might term colourful if one were polite.

He has been barred by the Supreme Court in the past from being a director/liquidator and recently a convicted defendant in a case involving brothels in Cork was told by the judge to avoid any contact with said Dr Grimes after he was released as he was a "bad influence".

He has, I think it would be fair to say, wasted our courts time with numerous (excessively so) fatuous cases, so while you might find him amusing, you are actually paying for your amusement with your taxes.

However, again none of that justifies what happened at the yard.

Owen

Colorful's a good description. I used to work for him in my very first job. He had me working there Monday - Saturday, 10 hours a week, and when I went up for wages one week, I got paid for the number of hours I was actually with a customer, not the number of hours I was on the premises.

coylemj

I see from the Irish Examiner news report that he's a doctor - of what?

corktina

hope it isnt a Doctor of Paint .....:D

L1011

coylemj wrote: »

I see from the Irish Examiner news report that he's a doctor - of what?

Law I believe

foggy_lad wrote: »

Afaik these were used for films etc more than just stored in a traditional static museum setting. heard Micheal Grimes on the radio yesterday saying the busses destroyed could mostly not be replaced:mad:

He has virtually every withdrawn UB Leyland Tiger already, hence there being no more to replace with - however, there are still plenty more there.

The offices are a bigger loss.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

I see from the Irish Examiner news report that he's a doctor - of what?

That has in the past been something he has been very vague about...

Terrontress

coylemj wrote: »

I see from the Irish Examiner news report that he's a doctor - of what?

He was saying on Liveline that he was a professor of engineering at Ohio State University. Maybe that has something to do with it. Although he is referred to as Dr. Grimes and I have used that title for him, I suppose it is not correct to use such a title outside of the sphere in which it is relevant.

I, for example, am a Reverend of the Universal Life Church along with Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and Sting but that means bugger all to 99.99% of people in the world except for the other lunatics who have signed up.

macroman

I've been involved down there for a number of years, as well as being involved with other preservation groups. I have sourced a few vehicles, and resurrected many vehicles thought to be condemned. The attack hasn't only affected Michael, but myself and others involved in the museum.

Whatever his personal & business affairs may be, it doesn't pay dividends to attack a collection which many have worked for. The logistical nightmare of bringing one of those Ulsterbus' down from Belfast is something many don't realise. The staggering cost of buying these buses, running the museum (diesel, batteries, tools etc.), securing the museum (fences, gates, cctv) and the cost met by individuals who go down to volunteer all adds up!

Cookie_Monster

@ macroman

any idea how many buses were lost?

LXFlyer

11 per said Mr Grimes on Liveline yesterday.

Pure thuggery on the part of whoever did it.

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

http://www.kellstransportmuseum.com/

I've seen this mentioned before. For some reason I always thought that it was in Kells, Co. Meath

coylemj

I'm getting the impression that he's a guy that finds it easy to not get on the right side of people.

LXFlyer

I think that in addition to being "colourful" it would be fair to say that there is an extremely long list of people who have been (and I am trying to be polite) "frustrated" by Grimes. Not least the members of our judiciary who have had their valuable time wasted by various fatuous cases brought by the said individual.

Terrontress

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that in addition to being "colourful" it would be fair to say that there is an extremely long list of people who have been (and I am trying to be polite) "frustrated" by Grimes. Not least the members of our judiciary who have had their valuable time wasted by various fatuous cases brought by the said individual.

To be fair, his court cases don't seem to be relevant to his bus museum which we are discussing here so there is no point in labouring the point.

He appears to me like a true eccentric and his hounding of various state and semi-state bodies through the court is part and parcel of this. It just adds to his eccentricity as far as I am concerned and I think it's always good to find someone different who puts his head above the parapet.

Most people on here would love to attempt to sue Iarnrod Eireann for some reason or other if we only had the time or resocures. If only for the laugh.

Terrontress

Back to the matter at hand, Grimes said on Liveline that the devices used against him were bombs, made with detonator devices. That is fairly serious.

It appears, from what he has said, that the buses tended to be from Translink and there are quite a few bus preservation groups up there so I don't think anything is irreplaceable so there aren't heritage issues.

Obviously if you have put time, effort and money in to working on these vehicles it must be soul-destroying to be the victim of such wanton destruction.

LXFlyer

Terrontress wrote: »

To be fair, his court cases don't seem to be relevant to his bus museum which we are discussing here so there is no point in labouring the point.

He appears to me like a true eccentric and his hounding of various state and semi-state bodies through the court is part and parcel of this. It just adds to his eccentricity as far as I am concerned and I think it's always good to find someone different who puts his head above the parapet.

Most people on here would love to attempt to sue Iarnrod Eireann for some reason or other if we only had the time or resocures. If only for the laugh.

I am making the point because you seem to think his eccentric behaviour is a laugh, when it is anything but. He has wasted courts time and Garda time on numerous occasions and you and I have paid for him to do this through our taxes, which is something I strongly object to.

He is far from the funny guy you paint him out to be - his debarring from being a director, liquidator and examiner by the Supreme Court for destroying company books and records proves that.

Eccentric yes but a monetary cost to you and I as taxpayers.

The Scientician

If this were Malta those buses would still be in service.

corktina

i thought all the old buses in Malta would be gone by now...happy memories, hundreds of buses, no two the same.

The Scientician

corktina wrote: »

i thought all the old buses in Malta would be gone by now...happy memories, hundreds of buses, no two the same.

Well my brother was there last year or the year before and they still had them. In 1998 I was in one from 1938 I think. It was a real walk down memory lane for my folks.

Losty Dublin

lxflyer wrote: »

I am making the point because you seem to think his eccentric behaviour is a laugh, when it is anything but. He has wasted courts time and Garda time on numerous occasions and you and I have paid for him to do this through our taxes, which is something I strongly object to.

He is far from the funny guy you paint him out to be - his debarring from being a director, liquidator and examiner by the Supreme Court for destroying company books and records proves that.

Eccentric yes but a monetary cost to you and I as taxpayers.

Just a sidenote to support your point on Dr. Grimes.

A friend of mine showed me his business card once; on it he describes himself as an anarchist.

Terrontress

lxflyer wrote: »

I am making the point because you seem to think his eccentric behaviour is a laugh, when it is anything but. He has wasted courts time and Garda time on numerous occasions and you and I have paid for him to do this through our taxes, which is something I strongly object to.

He is far from the funny guy you paint him out to be - his debarring from being a director, liquidator and examiner by the Supreme Court for destroying company books and records proves that.

Eccentric yes but a monetary cost to you and I as taxpayers.

If that's the worst that you can come up with then he can't be bad. Let's not forget we all have the right to use the courts.

I'd much rather the misuse of the courts and Gardai within the confines of the law than by repeat offenders who cause endless trouble and seem happy to use the revolving door of the courthouse.

But those things aside, he has his passion for his buses and is an eccentric character. There seem to be as many people speaking for him as against him and he does not deserve to be bombed.

And while his involvement in the sex industry might raise an eyebrow or two in Ireland, it is nothing that is seen as offensive in most other EU nations.

coylemj

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd much rather the misuse of the courts and Gardai within the confines of the law than by repeat offenders who cause endless trouble and seem happy to use the revolving door of the courthouse.

That is not a valid comparison, going into court on what are effectively ego trips has nothing to do with criminal activity.

Clogging up the courts with vexatious cases (i.e. taking a case just for the sake of it) blocks the system and delays justice for people with real issues that need sorting out.

LXFlyer

Terrontress wrote: »

If that's the worst that you can come up with then he can't be bad. Let's not forget we all have the right to use the courts.

I'd much rather the misuse of the courts and Gardai within the confines of the law than by repeat offenders who cause endless trouble and seem happy to use the revolving door of the courthouse.

But those things aside, he has his passion for his buses and is an eccentric character. There seem to be as many people speaking for him as against him and he does not deserve to be bombed.

And while his involvement in the sex industry might raise an eyebrow or two in Ireland, it is nothing that is seen as offensive in most other EU nations.

You would consider deliberately destroying company books and records ok then and a sign of good character?

Come off it.

Stop trying to paint him as an innocent eccentric. He is anything but.

I agree what happened was completely wrong, and inexcusable and hopefully the perpetrators will be caught and have the book thrown at them, but at the same time the man is no angel and the context of his background needs to be understood.

Terrontress

I am not going to discuss Grimes any further as I have never met the man and am only aware of him through his various websites. I'll not take the moral highground about wasting taxpayers money but I'd imagine it would be a nuisance if he started vexacious claims against me in the courts.

My stance on the issue is that it is a disgrace a museum should be targetted in this way, regardless of anyone's beliefs as to what constitutes a museum.

I do feel though that those buses destroyed are not irreplacable as there are quite a few of them in the hands of other bus preservation groups.

What I will say though is that they are amongst the last buses produced by Leyland before it got rebranded to Volvo Bus so I think that there is historical significance to them.

corktina

seems to have had 15 almost identical buses there. Would it not make sense to have had one good one of eash type plus break another couple for spares to get an overall good condition fleet of maybe 20 or 30 ....none of my business, just seems odd.

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

i thought all the old buses in Malta would be gone by now...happy memories, hundreds of buses, no two the same.

Cuba's like that too.

dowlingm

I see Dr Grimes still uses bizarre website design principles. Why have 1-2 fonts when you can have 15 font/weight/colour combinations and frames don't render properly in Firefox?