Armoured Lorries Easter 1916

R.Dub.Fusilier

there is probably a simple answer to this but what happened to the improvised armoured lorries after the fighting was over.

jonniebgood1

There is some background to the vehicles construction

Being thus concerned about protecting the troops from rebel fire, a Col. Portal of the Curragh camp mobile column had built at least three improvised armoured vehicles, one of which is shown in the photograph (above). The chassis were Daimler flat back lorries from the Guinness brewery, and the bodies were from locomotive smoke-boxes (rather than boilers) bolted together, with the smoke-box door on the rearmost section acting as the door to the troop compartment. The lorry’s cab was protected by the footplate roof from a train. All this work was carried out in the Inchicore railway workshops of the Great Southern and Western Railway.
These improvised armoured vehicles first went into action late on Thursday 27 April (making this one of the earliest uses of armoured cars or personnel carriers) in an action at Grattan Bridge over the Liffey. This crossing had to be wrested from the Irish Volunteers, whose defence was preventing the British army from cordoning the city from both north and south of the Liffey.
The smoke-box lorries seem to have been used to storm occupied houses that controlled key points in Dublin. They were reversed up to a building and the smoke-box door was opened, whereupon the troops would rush straight out into the house. Once control of the house was seized from the Irish Volunteers, cover was provided for other soldiers storming nearby positions, effecting a slow throttling of the Irish Volunteers’ occupation of Dublin.http://www.historyireland.com/volumes/volume13/issue2/news/?id=113802

There is also some info on how it was used on the BBC site

That night they brought an armoured car that they had built in Inchicore railway works around the corner of the then Great Britain Street – it’s now Parnell Street – into O’Connell Street and it proceeded to clank on down towards us. So I said to Reilly, ‘You take the right aperture and I’ll take the left,’ and we concentrated fire and stopped it. We must have killed the driver or injured somebody because it stopped there and eventually that night, when all the lights were out, they came along and pulled it back where it had come from.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/easterrising/witnesses/wh02.shtml

With regard to after the rising wiki says that it was broken up and returned to the railway yard but I cannot find a better link. I am trying to avoid wiki links as some people do not like this (Perhaps correctly). I will try and find a better source for that information. I presume that you were hoping that they still existed somewhere but that seems unlikely unless someone has better information.

R.Dub.Fusilier

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

With regard to after the rising wiki says that it was broken up and returned to the railway yard but I cannot find a better link. I am trying to avoid wiki links as some people do not like this (Perhaps correctly). I will try and find a better source for that information. I presume that you were hoping that they still existed somewhere but that seems unlikely unless someone has better information.

thanks for info. i never read anywhere what had happened to them and any time i saw a picture of them i always wondered what hand happened after the Rising . i didnt expect they survived , but it would have been brilliant if they did .

they would be something to look at.

PatsytheNazi

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

there is probably a simple answer to this but what happened to the improvised armoured lorries after the fighting was over.

Not sure about the first picture, but as far as I remeber, the second one was a big brewing tank donated by that great ' Irish ' company Guinness to the Brits to be converted into a sort of armoured car.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/257343/163249.jpg

johnny_doyle

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

there is probably a simple answer to this but what happened to the improvised armoured lorries after the fighting was over.

seen the round photo before but the boxed one is the first time I've seen this.

Is there an irony in it being photographed near a Gunpowder office

Have you come across any references/photos to the gun from HMY Helga II that was supposed to have been mounted on a lorry during the Rising?

R.Dub.Fusilier

johnny_doyle wrote: »

seen the round photo before but the boxed one is the first time I've seen this.

Is there an irony in it being photographed near a Gunpowder office

Have you come across any references/photos to the gun from HMY Helga II that was supposed to have been mounted on a lorry during the Rising?

the square/boxed lorry was from Guinness , at least thats what the website said.

i dont remember reading about the gun from the Helga. its something to keep an eye out for.

R.Dub.Fusilier

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Not sure about the first picture, but as far as I remeber, the second one was a big brewing tank donated by that great ' Irish ' company Guinness to the Brits to be converted into a sort of armoured car.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/257343/163249.jpg

as i said to JD above the square/boxed one is from Guinness . i dont think their sales ever went down because of it.

johnny_doyle

Max Caulfield writing in "The Easter Rebellion" makes mention of 2 being built, however, there's no guaranteeing that he's correct. He mentions 9 pounder artillery being used by the Army when the 4 guns they brought to the party were all 18pounders.

He lists a 1pounder from the Helga being taken off and mounted on a lorry. I'm not sure the Helga had a 1pounder gun though (2 12pounders seems to be the concensus).

johnny_doyle

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

as i said to JD above the square/boxed one is from Guinness . i dont think their sales ever went down because of it.

there was an attempted boycott of Guinness drink following the creation of the UVF if I remember correctly. Guinness and Rudyard Kipling donating large sums to the Unionist cause. Don't think the boycott lasted too long.

This auction description seems to match the square armoured car in the photo

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/sinn-fein-insurrection-in-dublin-postcard-armoured

R.Dub.Fusilier

johnny_doyle wrote: »

there was an attempted boycott of Guinness drink following the creation of the UVF if I remember correctly. Guinness and Rudyard Kipling donating large sums to the Unionist cause. Don't think the boycott lasted too long.

This auction description seems to match the square armoured car in the photo

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/sinn-fein-insurrection-in-dublin-postcard-armoured

i knew Kipling gave money to the UVF but i didnt realise Guinness did. Lord Rothschild of the famous or infamous banking family also gave a large ammount of money to the UVF.

jonniebgood1

As an interesting aside (IMO) regarding the UVF- Stephen Gwynn, a protestant nationalist wrote in 1924 that it was their initial attempts to import arms to prevent home rule by force that created the situation whereby the rising was possible. It was in response to the UVF's call to arms that nationalist groups began to import their own weapons. Without this the amount of weapons used in 1916 may not have been availiable. The UVF reaction (armed resistance) also brought more nationalists around to the idea that armed resistance may be the only way to get what they wanted.

dobkfz

I think there was at least five lorrys used at the time of the rising and all were returned to guinness. if you are on facebook ther is more info on this link.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=132042520168100&v=photos&ref=ts#!/photo.php?fbid=106636566058526&set=o.132042520168100&type=1&theater

and...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=132042520168100&v=photos&ref=ts#!/photo.php?fbid=109867742402075&set=o.132042520168100&type=1&theater

dobkfz

there is some more info on the guinness trucks and more pitures, some of which i have not seen before on this web site

http://improvisedmilitaryvehicles.blogspot.com/