ATH Knockout QF2: Slickric vs ThebostonCrab

Bounty Hunter

coming up on the half way point now with our 2nd quaterfinal:

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details, the 1st match's thread or if any are needed or check out last years competition.

Q. If you could bring and book any one wrestler (except Sting) who has never wrestled in the company (WWE/WWF) to the WWE who would you choose? why them? and how would you use them?

good luck.

thebostoncrab

SlickRic

The WWE is looking to expand into other markets globally. This year the company has their eyes on the Mexican market, with Sin Cara leading the charge. Judging by the gate sales for house shows, the expansion is working solidly. So realistically the next area to try build the WWE name is one like Mexico were wrestling is popular and respected; Japan. This leads to who I would pick to debut in the WWE. With Mexico, they picked the countries biggest star, so naturally the same should be done for the Japanese market, and my friends it does not get bigger than Kenta Kobashi.

So why pick Kobashi? Yes he is currently on the shelf, but he will be back, and my idea for using Kobashi will showcase him in a form that will protect him and ensure that the WWE get the very best from their new signing.

After the Royal Rumble, HHH makes his way down to the ring in a suit and a huge smile. He tells the crowd about the success of his signings of Sin Cara and other Mexican superstars to the WWE, and he will deliver more of the worlds best sports entertainers to the WWE in 2012. He explains that he has spent the last few months working on a business deal with the best sports entertainment brand in Japan, NOAH. Both companies I've agreed to trade talent in order to showcase the best in the world to as many people as possible. And I'd you want to kick start a business deal, you kick it off with a bang. Hunter goes on to talk about the first talent to make his way to the WWE. While some people here may not know his name, it won't take them long to realise that he is one of the greatest in the history of this business. A video package then plays highlighting Kobashis career with WWE talent such as Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Christian, Jericho etc speaking about the man. It ends with his name on the screen and the arena goes dark. His theme plays and he comes out in his hood to a huge response and posses in the ring.

The following week WWE stages a huge press conference simular to the Sin Cara one, with Kobashi talking questions. A plant in the crowd asks him who he would like to face and Kobashi talks about respect. He says around the world, people respect him, but here in the WWE only one man holds that same level of respect, and he feels that if the two face each other at Wrestlemania then they could deliver a match like no other, as they fight to see who deserves the most respect and be seen as the man everyone young superstar should look up too. That man is The Undertaker.

The following week HHH comes out to the ring and adresses Kobashis challenge. He says that this time last year, he thought that he was the only person in the WWE who could beat the streak. Fast forward 12 months and now he questions that. Last year he damn near killed Undertaker but still came short. He now thinks that the only man who could beat 'Taker is someone who is a big a legend as he is, and Kobashi is the only man on this earth who is in that same leauge. Therefore he is asking him to take up Kobashis challenge, so the fans can see a moment they never thought possible; someone breaking the streak.

At Backlash Kobashi is in a sky booth enjoying the event, when the dong is heard and the light s go out. Smoke fills the arena as Undertaker makes his way to the ring. He points at the Skybox and Kobashi is standing up. Suddenly there is a bang and Undertakers logo bursts above the skybox. Kobashi vs Undertaker is on!

The two spend the weeks building up with a huge contract signing and both men standing face to face in the ring without touching each other. Come 'Mania the hype machine is in full swing and the two deliver the most hard hitting match of 'Takers career. Taker takes the win somehow and both men need help out of the ring.


So why this set up? Well the gap gives Kobashi time go work out any ring rust, same for Taker. Both men also wrestle a similar style that wouldnt require them to do alot in order to deliver a classic contest rather than facing a younger star. Plus the business agreement with NOAH allows for more talent from the company to come to the WWE that can work a full schedule such as The Kings of Wrestling, KENTA, Marafuji and Bison Smyth. Sure could have picked a younger guy but if you have free reign why turn down the biggest fish you can find? There are always more following the big catch, and they will ensure growth in the WWE.

I hope you like my idea and it excites you as much as it does me!

SlickRic

the choice of Kenta Kobashi is a great one, as is the idea of the Streak match, no question. The Streak can make a 'Taker opponent, and what better way to get Kenta over with a new market than with that match. it's the match most wrestlers would want if given the choice.

but i'll argue why my idea is a better one in due course, but, for now, I've to showcase my idea, so here it goes.

the obvious candidates are the likes of AJ and Samoa Joe, but i've decided to take the question quite literally. both have wrestled in the company, so i didn't want to be caught out on that technicality. and anyway, upon reflection, while they would be 'up there', i don't think they could catch the imagination like the likes of Kenta, or indeed my choice.

there is a gimmick above pretty much all other gimmick's in the world of wrestling. it is a gimmick filled with mystique, and his own unique charisma makes him a legend all around the world. he ticks the box of the Japanese market, while also ticking the box of having worked in the US to round himself in his early years. he would create a buzz. there would be great anticipation. even just his entrance, mask, and personality, without all the history, would have audiences in the US in the palm of his hand. add in his significance, and you have money for every demographic WWE could hope for.

i give you The Great Muta.

now, although almost 50, the man can still go, as seen by numerous classics with the likes of Yoshihiro Takayama and Satoshi Kojima over the last couple of years; plus he is a man of presence, and as a man who was President of All-Japan, he can demand respect in that role too. in saying all that, this is how I would do it...

....

Summerslam comes, Cena retains the title against whoever he retains it against), possibly Truth, and as he does his whole celebrating with that goofy smile bit, the lights go out, mist rages up on the stage below the TitanTron, it lasts for about 5 seconds, then the lights go up again. Cena looks confused, but does a cheesy shrug, his music comes back, and it's probably just put down as a glitch somewhere.

the next night on Raw, have Cole & Lawler reference it as some sort of fúck up; even have the GM fire someone over it. this way the smarks know it's an angle, but perhaps some of the younger ones won't.

forget about it for a couple of months, then after Survivor Series, have it happen again, only this time at the start of the PPV, and again, at end of it.....lights go out, mist, lights on.....and just have people get on with it. have commentators speculate that it's another fúck up, or have them throw in the fact the Undertaker could be preparing a comeback as he's always up to this kind of thing.

the next night on Raw, Triple H arrives, and all we see of him are a couple of backstage segments where he's talking to crew, shouting at them in fact, trying to find out what the story is, and when he can't find a problem, you can just have him grinning, knowingly almost, assuming it's the Undertaker.

don't reference it again for the next month or 2.

then the Raw before the Rumble, do the lights/mist bit again, bu then have a video package air immediately after. throw in some cryptic images, numbers etc, but also flash up a few Japanese symbols in the package very subtly. again, the smarks would be going crazy for it wondering what's going on, and the casual fan will be excited, as well as probably assuming it's the Undertaker. then flash up the date of the Raw after the Rumble.

at the Rumble, it gets to No.30, and the lights/mist thing happens again...the crowd believe the person, whoever it is, will come out now, a day early, but alas, no, the final wrestler's music hits after about 5 seconds, and the Rumble ends, with Sheamus winning :pac:

anyway, next night on Raw, Triple H comes out, and he's píssed. he talks about it being well known now that he is taking on a lot of the business affairs these days, and these interruptions are a joke. Undertaker, or no Undertaker. so he demands that the Deadman come out, so they can settle this and sign the "biggest rematch of all time". he gets more and more agitated, loosening the tie, taking off the shirt the more he waits.

then the lights/mist hit. and the video package airs; the same one at the Raw before the Rumble, only at the end, a fancy retrospective package is also tagged on the end featuring some of his greatest moves like the Shining Wizard off steel and shít like that, as well as showing some of his other in-ring mannerisms, as well as showcasing all the titles he's won. the lights are still out as the video ends with Japanese writing, which morphs into English, and it reads 'The Great Muta'.

and Muta is standing behind Triple H, mask and all, when the lights come back. there is a mixture of excitement and confusion. the casual fans won't know what's happening as they expected Undertaker, but others are going mad.

Triple H turns around, and starts explaining, and putting over Muta as the Japanese great that he is, but that he wasn't expecting him to sign until after Wrestlemania, and that is when everything was going to start. Muta, who has very good English, takes the mic, and instead of starting to talk, sprays HHH with the Asian mist, hits the Shining Wizard (equipped with a 'mutha fúcka' yell for good measure ), and leaves the ring, with the crowd in shock.

and the build to WM begins.

Muta, over the coming weeks, as HHH continues to build WM as the business head, starts to reveal that he is here, not just to wrestle, not just to bring his legend and legacy to America, but to take over WWE. he knows about HHH. he knows he's the 'son-in-law', and Vince has taught him everything he knows, but Vince doesn't know Muta, HHh doesn't know Muta, and Muta is capable of anything.

and this is the basic premise to the feud, with Muta confident, verging on arrogant, in terms of how he will take over WWE, in 'all ways', and HHH hammering home the fact that he is the Game, that damn good, King of Kings, etc etc etc, and nobody, no matter what kind of legend they are, walks into his world and disrespects him. he is in charge.

even use Mr McMahon at some stage to back HHH up.

video packages continue to air of Muta doing all the shít we all know he does. even the violent stuff. make his stuff non-PG. show him screaming. show him making opponents bleed. sell how crazy he is. have him have a match with a mid-carder, like John Morrison. have him unmercifully beat him; and make him bleed.

have a contract signing obviously. HHH can try to do his sledgehammer under the table bit, but Muta escape...again 'no touching', not as a rule, but work the segments each week so that they never lock horns.

Muta would be semi-full time, so his appearances in the ring have to be limited. make it special.

anyway i've rambled enough, because like TBC with his selection, I'm quite excited by mine

HHH v The Great Muta at WM 28.

thebostoncrab

SlickRic

I'll say it for everyone what I already said in the main thread, The Great Muta was my back up if you picked Kenta Kobashi. Muta is another one of the very few guys who can bring so much to the WWE product, however I did say that he was my back up choice, not my main. I still stand by my choice of Kenta Kobashi and I think my plan works on a greater level than yours, even if your idea is a strong one.

The problem with Muta is his age. While the same can be said for my choice of Kobashi, my booking of him ensures that while he won't be wrestling a full schedule or even more more than two or three years, his entrance to the WWE will benefit the company in the long run.

My booking of Kobashi involves the WWE setting up a talent trade agreement with Pro Wrestling NOAH in order to help grow their current plans to expand their global market. After Kobashi has his match with 'Taker, the door is open for more talent to come in from NOAH that are younger and in the prime of their talent, including North American names such as The Kings of Wrestling and Bison Smith. This helps to grow a roster that is currently having problems making new stars and creates so many fresh storylines and match ups.

But let's look at why Kobashi is more suited than Muta for the WWE. While Muta carries a one of a kind gimmick that will make him stand out, the fact remains that Vince loves big guys. While smaller guys have made it, it's with alot of time and luck. Kobashi is naturally huge and would instantly look the part on the WWE roster. Plus his style of wrestling would work better against more WWE guys than Mutas. And while Muta has a brilliant gimmick and look, he still looks his age. This will make it harder for alot of young fans to try warm to him and take him serious. Kobashi on the other hand doesn't look his age (Simular to Batista who looked younger than he is) and thus automatically looks like more of a threat.

Muta is a great choice don't get me wrong, but he simply doesn't fit into the WWE as well as Kobashi.

SlickRic

thebostoncrab wrote: »

The problem with Muta is his age. While the same can be said for my choice of Kobashi, my booking of him ensures that while he won't be wrestling a full schedule or even more more than two or three years, his entrance to the WWE will benefit the company in the long run.

while i didn't specify in my original post that Muta's introduction to the WWE would benefit the company long-term, and even though i wouldn't make it absolutely obvious in terms of TV times awarded to it, it does open that door to the Japanese market. he has the stature, and the skills, to pull off a part-time schedule.

i don't see Muta's age as the detriment you've stated. he's still the draw, and still as the skills, to be of use to the company for a couple of years - certainly long enough to open that market somewhat.

My booking of Kobashi involves the WWE setting up a talent trade agreement with Pro Wrestling NOAH in order to help grow their current plans to expand their global market. After Kobashi has his match with 'Taker, the door is open for more talent to come in from NOAH that are younger and in the prime of their talent, including North American names such as The Kings of Wrestling and Bison Smith. This helps to grow a roster that is currently having problems making new stars and creates so many fresh storylines and match ups.

while a very good idea, one which i can't really argue with, Muta can do similar behind the scenes. much like it's been reputed that Sin Cara has paved the way for more luchadors. i don't think this is something only Kobashi can do, so while the detail you've put into the plan is excellent, i don't think it's puts your idea over mine in terms of what it can offer WWE.

But let's look at why Kobashi is more suited than Muta for the WWE. While Muta carries a one of a kind gimmick that will make him stand out, the fact remains that Vince loves big guys. While smaller guys have made it, it's with alot of time and luck. Kobashi is naturally huge and would instantly look the part on the WWE roster. Plus his style of wrestling would work better against more WWE guys than Mutas. And while Muta has a brilliant gimmick and look, he still looks his age. This will make it harder for alot of young fans to try warm to him and take him serious. Kobashi on the other hand doesn't look his age (Simular to Batista who looked younger than he is) and thus automatically looks like more of a threat.

while Kobashi may have the edge in physique, i feel that Muta can capture the imagination of the WWE *puke* 'Universe' in a better way, as his gimmick is so unique, and so universal in how it can get over. i don't think Kobashi's physique stands out that much that Vince would fall in love with him. the gimmick, and the way the introduction would play out, is far more vital IMO. this is the key, and is where i feel Muta would hold a distinct edge. the gimmick, would, IMO, keep the interest of the audience for a good period of time.

plus, he's not really small either, so Vince isn't going to ignore him either. it's not like Sin Cara v Mason Ryan

the cryptic messages, the video packages, the hidden meanings, the clues that smarks love to pick up on - all of that is shít Vince would love to play with.

the match with Taker, while it would be hard-hitting, i'd have to question whether Taker could take it at this stage. but that's just a minor quibble.

Muta is a great choice don't get me wrong, but he simply doesn't fit into the WWE as well as Kobashi.

i obviously disagree

having said that, and to continue the mutual appreciation society, i believe Kobashi to be one of maybe 4 or 5 that would work for this question.

but Muta just stands out that little more for me, and i believe a programme fully unpacking the 'son-in-law's' fight to keep control of the company he inherited from Vince, something which has been talked about for years as going to happen, and has been teased for years, would get everyone talking.

thebostoncrab

SlickRic

I'm on the IPhone again so forgive me if this gets messy! I can't quote so I'll adress your post by points:

1) Mutas age will unfortunately matter to the kids who have never seen him before. Yes he will come out with the mask and make up, but it could backfire on him. The audience might think the sight of an elderly man in make up to be embarrassing or hard to take serious. Yes Sting is of age but father time has been kinder to his looks than Muta so he can get away with the make up. It's an unfortunate risk and one I don't agree with but it is still present when booking Muta in the WWE. Kobashi doesn't have this worry though as it's hard to not take him serious as a big powerful looking lad because that's exactly what he looks like.

2) Don't get me wrong, I don't think Kobashi is the only person who could open the door for more Japan based wrestlers to come to the WWE, but out of the two rosters NOAH has more guys suited for the WWE, especially westerners, and these would be the guys Vince would be mostly after. If Muta was back with NJPW then he would have the edge
here.

3) I think you're underestimating how big Kobashi is. I've had the pleasure of meeting the guy and by God he is bigger than most of the WWEs roster. I don't want to make it sound like Kobashis size is the big difference, but it is an important factor for the WWE.

4) Which leads me onto my final defence and why the people should vote for Kobashi. My match up is one that canny fail. Both men will have so much time to prepare their bodies and can be trusted to deliver without egos being involved that everyone would win with thus match up. Kobashi is a perfect fit for the WWE style and would deliver so many dream match ups. Not only that but my booking allows for the company to grow it's roster even more. There is no denying Muta as a talent and a legend, but Kobashi is simply the better fit for the WWE and the better wrestler. All those five star contest speak for themselves, and I know a match with The Undertaker at Wrestlemania would bring both him and 'Taker another one. So vote for Kobashi! Thank you

SlickRic

thebostoncrab wrote: »

1) Mutas age will unfortunately matter to the kids who have never seen him before. Yes he will come out with the mask and make up, but it could backfire on him. The audience might think the sight of an elderly man in make up to be embarrassing or hard to take serious. Yes Sting is of age but father time has been kinder to his looks than Muta so he can get away with the make up. It's an unfortunate risk and one I don't agree with but it is still present when booking Muta in the WWE. Kobashi doesn't have this worry though as it's hard to not take him serious as a big powerful looking lad because that's exactly what he looks like.

i think booking Muta, against the likes of HHH to start with especially, will help establish him as a legend in the eyes of the WWE audience. now, don't get me wrong, the kids may still struggle, but they're going to struggle with ANYONE new and a little on the old side. i'd move that that would count as much for Kobashi. the match, the feud, and the gimmick, as i've laid out, i believe, can get Muta over.

2) Don't get me wrong, I don't think Kobashi is the only person who could open the door for more Japan based wrestlers to come to the WWE, but out of the two rosters NOAH has more guys suited for the WWE, especially westerners, and these would be the guys Vince would be mostly after. If Muta was back with NJPW then he would have the edge
here.

fair enough, i would concede that point. but Muta does open up that market no question to an extent. that's not the main plug for my idea, i just wanted to make it clear that Muta can pave the way too.

3) I think you're underestimating how big Kobashi is. I've had the pleasure of meeting the guy and by God he is bigger than most of the WWEs roster. I don't want to make it sound like Kobashis size is the big difference, but it is an important factor for the WWE.

it's an important factor, but not by any means the only factor. Orton's not enormous. i know that's a weird comparison as Orton grew up through WWE, but he still got over due to his gimmicks and chraisma. Edge. Swagger was given a chance recently.

there is no reason why Muta, even approaching 50, with possibly the most unique gimmick in wrestling, with the same, if not more talent than all these guys, could not do the same and cross over. it's a risk; but i believe allied with my plan for how to utilise him lessens any risk considerably.

Which leads me onto my final defence and why the people should vote for Kobashi. My match up is one that canny fail. Both men will have so much time to prepare their bodies and can be trusted to deliver without egos being involved that everyone would win with thus match up. Kobashi is a perfect fit for the WWE style and would deliver so many dream match ups. Not only that but my booking allows for the company to grow it's roster even more. There is no denying Muta as a talent and a legend, but Kobashi is simply the better fit for the WWE and the better wrestler. All those five star contest speak for themselves, and I know a match with The Undertaker at Wrestlemania would bring both him and 'Taker another one.

and this is where i believe my main edge in this should be. i don't believe 'Taker/Kobashi is a lock as a classic, and one that will get Kobashi over. who knows what Taker is still capable of. will Kobashi be the same when he comes back? i do believe it can draw, but i'd be worried about the match to an extent.

i believe the creativity that comes with Muta, his diverse style, his gimmick, his own ability to have classic matches, and the feud i've set up for him with the son-in-law, HHH, who has longer than Taker as a top-tier match performer die to him not being half crippled yet, makes my idea that little bit more exciting, and one i would want to see that little bit more if i was to see/buy a show.

So vote for Kobashi! Thank you

nope. Vote Muta!

thank you very much

Bounty Hunter

A close contest this time but 58% sees TBC moving on into the Semi-final where he will face Teamshadowclan. Hard luck and well played Slick

SlickRic

and including my vote for myself, to cancel out TBC's (cheeky fecker!! :P), it's even closer.

good win TBC, well deserved.

i knew once you picked Kobashi, one of the greats, and IWC legend, and put him with The Undertaker in a Streak match, it'd be an uphill struggle :pac:

thebostoncrab

SlickRic

Very well played! Had to vote this time, was too close to not

Honestly that could have gone either way. Muta is a ****ing brilliant choice and equal to Kobashi.