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Tenant not paying rent

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  • 14-06-2011 8:53pm
    #1
    jdburke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭


    Need some help on a RA tenant who has not paid May rent and will not answer any of my calls.Myself and the agent called separately to the house but she would not answer the door.The tenant is in the house 7 months.I never had a RA tenant before, so not sure what to do next. Can I contact the social welfare office and tell them that she is not using her rent allowance for her rent and ask them to pay me direct. How do I go about contacting the social welfare offices. Do I issue an eviction letter and report the matter to the PRTB,How long does the process take.
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    #2
    aas
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭aas


    The tenant could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness. Approach the situation with patience and compassion, it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.


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    #3
    EKRIUQ
    Registered Users Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Can I contact the social welfare office and tell them that she is not using her rent allowance for her rent and ask them to pay me direct. How do I go about contacting the social welfare offices. Do I issue an eviction letter and report the matter to the PRTB,How long does the process take.

    If you contact the Social, then the rent will be stopped and you'll never get any rent.

    PRTB takes about 8 months and you won't be getting any rent then either.

    Best approach is to keep calling and knocking on the door.


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    #4
    irishdude11
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭irishdude11


    aas wrote: »
    The tenant could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness. Approach the situation with patience and compassion, it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.

    Are you for real? This tenant has been given money on a monthly basis by the state to pay for her accomdation. By your logic everyone should go easy on rent allowance tenants who refuse to pay rent for months on end as they 'could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness'.

    It is the OPs money she has in her possesion. It is not her money. It is no better than stealing the cash off him. If some scumbag stole your money would you think 'ah its alright, its likely they need the money far more than I do'.


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    #5
    aas
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭aas


    irishdude11 wrote: »
    Are you for real? This tenant has been given money on a monthly basis by the state to pay for her accomdation. By your logic everyone should go easy on rent allowance tenants who refuse to pay rent for months on end as they 'could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness'.

    It is the OPs money she has in her possesion. It is not her money. It is no better than stealing the cash off him. If some scumbag stole your money would you think 'ah its alright, its likely they need the money far more than I do'.

    I genuinely do think people should 'go easy' on those unfortunate enough to qualify for rent assistance. As for the second question, it would really depend on what the money would be spent on - I'd find it very unfortunate if anyone's money were to be spent on heroin, but I probably wouldn't mind so much if money that I would have spent on a new phone or something were to instead go towards an underprivileged child's schoolbooks, for example.


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    #6
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    aas wrote: »
    I genuinely do think people should 'go easy' on those unfortunate enough to qualify for rent assistance. As for the second question, it would really depend on what the money would be spent on - I'd find it very unfortunate if anyone's money were to be spent on heroin, but I probably wouldn't mind so much if money that I would have spent on a new phone or something were to instead go towards an underprivileged child's schoolbooks, for example.


    Renting a property is a business. No other businesses would be asked to "go easy" on a customer.
    The tenant gets the rent allowance to pay the rent - only rent, not for other things. She goes to supermarket - she pays cash, nobody asks the supermarket to "go easy" on her. I could go on!

    I find it amazing that it is always a landlord who has to suffer the loss when a tenant can't find enough money to live on - God knows, in Ireland there are enough benefits available to be claimed. So I am sure she is claiming much more that just rent allowance.


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    #7
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    aas wrote: »
    The tenant could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness. Approach the situation with patience and compassion, it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.

    The LL could be facing homeless. Lots of LL in trouble now too.


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    #8
    MistyCheese
    Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭MistyCheese


    aas wrote: »
    it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.

    Irrelevant. It's not the tenants money, it's the landlords. If you don't pay your bills you get cut off, if you don't pay your rent you get evicted. A genuine tenant would contact the landlord as soon as they know they are having difficulty, not hide and refuse to answer the door. Rent is a responsibility, you can't just decide to shirk it at your convenience. People like this ruin the chances of genuine Rent Supplement recipients securing decent accommodation.

    OP, Rent Supplement isn't anything to do with the Social Welfare, it's organized by the HSE so if you want to contact them to let them know that you haven't been receiving rent you will need to get in touch with the local Community Welfare Officer in your area. If you want to demand that your tenants Rent Supplement is paid directly to you please be advised that you will still only receive the weekly rent minus €24 euro (minimum) as this is the minimum contribution that a tenant must make to their landlord.


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    #9
    jimbob86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 307 ✭✭jimbob86


    You need to go in there with a meat cleaver and baseball bat and fcuk her up..Joe Pesci style,make an example of her. :mad:


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    #10
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    jimbob86 wrote: »
    You need to go in there with a meat cleaver and baseball bat and fcuk her up..Joe Pesci style,make an example of her. :mad:

    I'm making an example of you.
    Banned- for attempting to incite violence.
    Regards,

    SMcCarrick


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    #11
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    the fact this happened immediatly after the significant milestone that is 6 months in the accomadation makes me feel that the tennant has been playing the OP from day 1 and knows exactly what they are doing.

    id initiate eviction proceedings immediatly OP it will take time but this scumbag appears to be playing the system at your expense. i would call the social and stop the payments because the chances of you seeing it are pretty much zero im sad to say.


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    #12
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Yes playing the system.


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    #13
    Victor_M
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭Victor_M


    As a LL you can insist that RA is paid directly to the LL and not the tenant.

    If the tenant can't manage on the Dole of ~€200 per week with no accommodation costs that shouldn't become the LL's problem.

    By not paying his/her rent he/she effectively living off a disposable income of €400 per week, which is a hell of a lot more than most in FT employment at the moment - All handed over for nothing.

    Get on to the PRTB immediately, if you are being played OP, then the current system is there to screw you over if a rogue tenant knows what to say and how to play innocent you have to start the slow lengthy process of getting rid of a tenant ASAP.


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    #14
    stargazer 68
    Registered Users Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    I get RA and my rent is paid in full on time every month and has been since I moved in. My LL has no problems with me, in fact when he calls around to sign the forms etc he comments on how much nicer the house is than when he lived in it himself!!

    So OP I think you should contact the HSE and PRTB and get it sorted. Good luck.


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    #15
    tishandy
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭tishandy


    Victor_M wrote: »
    As a LL you can insist that RA is paid directly to the LL and not the tenant.

    If the tenant can't manage on the Dole of ~€200 per week with no accommodation costs that shouldn't become the LL's problem.

    By not paying his/her rent he/she effectively living off a disposable income of €400 per week, which is a hell of a lot more than most in FT employment at the moment - All handed over for nothing.

    Get on to the PRTB immediately, if you are being played OP, then the current system is there to screw you over if a rogue tenant knows what to say and how to play innocent you have to start the slow lengthy process of getting rid of a tenant ASAP.

    How do you calculate 400 per week? Rent allowance given is half the weeks rent, so say the rent is 140 per week the h.s.e gives 70 Euro, the other half needs to come out of her 200 social welfare.

    O.P keep trying to contact her, calling to the door if nescessary. Explain that you can allow her to pay the back the owed money in installments
    come to some arrangement.


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    #16
    Bigus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Bigus


    You need to get her to pay you the social part of the rent at least.

    If you inform welfare they will stop payment to her , and not pay you.

    You need to stay within the law , but the law in effect(not timely 3 years) will not help you, I know.

    So what can you do within the law ?

    You need to sit on the house and see tenants movements. See are they moonlighting and working for cash, cohabiting, doing anything illegal. If you can gain any ammunition on tenant you can then confront them and get them to pay the social element of the rent or else report them.

    Eyeball contact will need to be established, on a daily or nightly basis if necessary.

    Imagine if you were in the same position, the more(legal) hassle you got the more you'd be likely to pay or move on to a SOFTER LL.


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    #17
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Victor_M wrote: »
    As a LL you can insist that RA is paid directly to the LL and not the tenant...

    To clarify you can make that part of the lease/contract between the LL and tenant. If they don't accept then, don't take them on as a tenant.


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    #18
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Bigus wrote: »
    You need to get her to pay you the social part of the rent at least.

    If you inform welfare they will stop payment to her , and not pay you.

    You need to stay within the law , but the law in effect(not timely 3 years) will not help you, I know....

    This is still a soft approach. You'll just keep having hassle if you accept partial payment. I don't think its legal under the scheme either, but I'm open to correction. Report the fraud to SW, they'll cut off the dole and RA. Eventually they'll move to get dole and RA set up somewhere else.


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    #19
    Victor_M
    Registered Users Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭Victor_M


    tishandy wrote: »
    How do you calculate 400 per week? Rent allowance given is half the weeks rent, so say the rent is 140 per week the h.s.e gives 70 Euro, the other half needs to come out of her 200 social welfare..

    Depending on the tenants circumstances and the type of welfare received they can get up to €1200 p/m RA

    http://www.inou.ie/download/pdf/max_rent_levels_county.pdf

    I got the figure of €400 from ~€200 Dole + €200* (800/4) which is very common in Dublin anyway as a rent allowance figure where the tenant doesn't have to make any contributions towards the rent.

    *Estimate as the op never stated what the actual figure was


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    #20
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ok- so both the landlord and the agent have called to the property and there has been no response to knocks on the door etc.

    1. Is it possible that she has vacated the property and moved on elsewhere? If so- the landlord needs to figure how to regain possession of the property in a manner that isn't open to legal challenge.

    2. She knows damn well who it is at the door and is delibertly not answering the door? In which case- the landlord *needs* to talk to her- to find out what the situation is. I'd suggest sending a registered letter advising her of a periodic inspection. As she would have been served with notice of an inspection- it would be covered under the act. If the registered letter is not accepted- you're back to step 1- no response at the door, post not being accepted- I'd suggest contacting the PRTB for information on how to reclaim a property that you believe the tenant has abondoned (keep good track of any information they give and follow it precisely- don't deviate in the slightest.

    3. With respect of the rent not being paid etc- this is separate to whether or not she is still in the property, and should be dealt with as such. The local CWO/HSE should be made aware of the fact that rent is not being paid by the tenant, and the landlord has reasonable belief that the property has been abondoned, and is initiating mechanisms for reclaiming the property.

    I don't subscribe to any of this 'be nice to her' sentiment. Renting a property is a business- akin to any other- and for all we know that landlord could potentially be a hell of a lot worse off than she is....... She agreed to rent a property, at an agreed rent, and to keep the property in good order. She fails to keep her side of the agreement- there are consequences.

    First off- find out whether she is still present in the property- and take it from there.


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    #21
    gosuckonalemon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 730 ✭✭✭gosuckonalemon


    aas wrote: »
    The tenant could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness. Approach the situation with patience and compassion, it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.

    Why not allow his tenant to move in with you so seeing as you are so charitable?

    So his tenant doesn't pay the rent and the OP can't afford mortgage repayments. Bank repossess the home. Can the OP go live with you then too?


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    #22
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Establish if she is still there by sending a registered letter asking her to contact you. If the letter is not received she may be gone send another and if the same thing happens you have a reasonable assumption the property is vacant. You will have a record of her receiving the mails if she accepts them and start eviction proceedings. It will take a long time. Also clarify with the HSE that payments are being made or not. The cheques should be in your name and if they are being cashed that is fraud and the gaurds will investigate that.

    I had a similar problem with a tenant and had some maintenance work to do. This involved the electricity being cut for some hours while the board was replaced. I left notes stating the electricity would be off while the work was done. The lock on the hall door also needed to be changed (where the fuse board was), as I wasn't sure anybody was downstairs I didn't drop the new keys in.

    Luckily the rang me that night as it seems the electrician hadn't flipped the electricity back on for downstairs. I was straight down and able to sort the problem out. Tenants should always stay in touch.


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    #23
    aas
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭aas


    odds_on wrote: »
    Renting a property is a business. No other businesses would be asked to "go easy" on a customer.
    The tenant gets the rent allowance to pay the rent - only rent, not for other things. She goes to supermarket - she pays cash, nobody asks the supermarket to "go easy" on her. I could go on!

    I find it amazing that it is always a landlord who has to suffer the loss when a tenant can't find enough money to live on - God knows, in Ireland there are enough benefits available to be claimed. So I am sure she is claiming much more that just rent allowance.
    How each individual landlord wishes to conduct his 'business' of renting property is up to him (within the confines of whatever laws we have), I'm merely suggesting that the O.P. conduct his business with a bit less greed and a bit more understanding.
    BostonB wrote: »
    The LL could be facing homeless. Lots of LL in trouble now too.
    He couldn't possibly be facing homelessness if he owns a property and can still afford to live somewhere else. Even if he has a mortgage to pay he still has the option of living in the property he's currently leasing. Not that I think this detail is particularly important, but I do think it relevant to keep in mind that the tenant is much worse off financially that the O.P.
    MistyCheese wrote: »
    Irrelevant. It's not the tenants money, it's the landlords. If you don't pay your bills you get cut off, if you don't pay your rent you get evicted. A genuine tenant would contact the landlord as soon as they know they are having difficulty, not hide and refuse to answer the door. Rent is a responsibility, you can't just decide to shirk it at your convenience. People like this ruin the chances of genuine Rent Supplement recipients securing decent accommodation.
    She's hiding because she's afraid of losing her home, not because she's not a 'genuine tenant'.
    tishandy wrote: »
    O.P keep trying to contact her, calling to the door if nescessary. Explain that you can allow her to pay the back the owed money in installments
    come to some arrangement.
    This is a good suggestion I think. All the suggestions so far lead to a lengthy process that hurts all parties - the tenant loses her home and the landlord loses several months rent. If you stay persistent in attempting to establish contact, making clear that you don't intend to evict the tenant, I imagine you could come to agreement on some scheme for paying arrears.


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    #24
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    aas wrote: »
    ...He couldn't possibly be facing homelessness if he owns a property and can still afford to live somewhere else. Even if he has a mortgage to pay he still has the option of living in the property he's currently leasing. Not that I think this detail is particularly important, but I do think it relevant to keep in mind that the tenant is much worse off financially that the O.P....

    The OP, might but a lot LL are in serious trouble. Just because someone a LL doesn't mean they don't need the money. You've no idea that the tenant isn't working the system.


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    #25
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    aas wrote: »
    ...
    She's hiding because she's afraid of losing her home, not because she's not a 'genuine tenant'.

    This is a good suggestion I think. All the suggestions so far lead to a lengthy process that hurts all parties - the tenant loses her home and the landlord loses several months rent. If you stay persistent in attempting to establish contact, making clear that you don't intend to evict the tenant, I imagine you could come to agreement on some scheme for paying arrears.

    Someone working the system will do exactly the same thing. Cut off all contact.

    If someone falls into arrears, and can't afford the rent. How on earth are they going to pay arrears in addition to what they can't afford now. It doesn't add up.


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    #26
    keysersoze0330
    Registered Users Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭keysersoze0330


    aas wrote: »
    He couldn't possibly be facing homelessness if he owns a property and can still afford to live somewhere else. Even if he has a mortgage to pay he still has the option of living in the property he's currently leasing.

    What a ridiculous thing to say. How could he not possibly be facing homelessness. Do you know him and his circumstances.


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    #27
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    aas wrote: »
    I'm merely suggesting that the O.P. conduct his business with a bit less greed and a bit more understanding.
    Looking for payment for service provided should never be considered greed. If the tenant is using the rent allowance for anything else they are committing fraud. Which I think is a definitely worse than being a landlord which isn't by definition greed.

    Apply some understanding of the situation here if the tenant is getting rent allowance and other social welfare payment and isn't paying the rent what are they spending the money on?

    Incredibly idiotic to assume every LL can afford to support some randomer. If the person needs help the state is there to help them as funded by everybodys' taxes. Unless they are a junkie or similar they will be easily taken care of and not be living on the streets


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    #28
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    The govt should have a better system to deal with tenants in difficulty, so its not all left to the LL. Its going to become more common place as times get harder. If the govt paid the RA direct to the LL at least the tenant would keep a roof over their head. The temptation to spend it, if theres some crisis like a child sick, would be hard to resist.


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    #29
    kdowling
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭kdowling


    aas wrote: »
    The tenant could be in severe financial difficulties and eviction could spell homelessness. Approach the situation with patience and compassion, it's likely that she needs the money far more than you do.

    you're a regular mother theresa when its someone else's problem.

    so do you take in homeless people into your house since you are so kind hearted?



    there are so many thread of this situation. these people obviously know that they can get away with living rent free for months.
    Are these cases being highlighted to local TD's etc and if so why are they not looking at changing the law that is so ridiculously biased in the tenants favour?


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    #30
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    kdowling wrote: »
    there are so many thread of this situation. these people obviously know that they can get away with living rent free for months.
    Are these cases being highlighted to local TD's etc and if so why are they not looking at changing the law that is so ridiculously biased in the tenants favour?

    To be honest with you- I've come to the conclusion that Threshold are actively encouraging people who contact them to behave in this manner- I've personally come across 4 cases with a number of remarkable similarities.

    It genuinely is the case that the law, as it stands- is ridiculously weighted in favour of tenants. Certainly- change in the law was necessary- as many landlords got away with ridiculous things in the past- however the pendulum swung far too far in the other direction.

    If someone doesn't pay rent- it should not be the case that they can use the system to live rent free indefinitely while a case trundles through the PRTB process.......


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    #31
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Most likely. I know of one tenant, who did something similar as in the OP situation, used their RA cheque themselves, stopped communicating, change locks etc, were given correct notice, and Theshold advised them that it would take a long time for the LL to get them out, and so continued to stay there not paying rent. The tenants dole and RA was cut. They eventually left after many months. They got back on the dole, I've heard they had applied again for RA somewhere else, dunno if they got it though.


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