what make too buy?

cathal_flynn

good day all ,

so im thinking of saving up for a new gun (ohhh shiny shiny *-*)
im unsure of a make to go with. i was think just save up and get a marui. but not to sure
what i need it to do is:

-good straight out of box
-solid externals
-solid internals
-not brake easily as i would be using every weekend and plicking at home so it needs to be able to take alot of wear

basically it dosnt need to be an amazing gun just needs to do the job and just not let me down

am i right in thinking that my best option is tokyo marui or do you guys have any good sugestions?

cheers

Hande hoche!

Any preference on type for example an AK, M4 or P90? That being said the JG 36C has a great reputation for a beginner AEG

Firekitten

Tokyo Mauri is far from your best bet... plus thier externals are about as solid as a chocolate toaster. As for the internals... only solid if you dont touch the gearbox... ever.

Tm are an outdated 'best of airsoft' with only thier GBBs sill holding a place in the market. The aegs are a bit old.

Best bets? King arms, G&P, VFC, Inokatsu, Ares, or G&G.

Your question is a bit open ended.... 'what brand' well.... each brand is better at certain guns than others.... Its impossible to say 'this am best brand'

pick a gun, re ask the question, and we can actually give a straight answer... otherwise its all conjecture, and a bit random.

cathal_flynn

im not a beginer mate :P
but yes i know the jg g36 is a deadly gun and very solid but not what im looking for
im looking for a more higher end make

as for gun i dont mind really as long as its not an m4 but i do like m4 varients

Hande hoche!

Sorry that would explain the choice of the word new instead of first
Have you considered a Real Sword AK? They are exceptional.

cathal_flynn

Firekitten wrote: »

Tokyo Mauri is far from your best bet... plus thier externals are about as solid as a chocolate toaster. As for the internals... only solid if you dont touch the gearbox... ever.

Tm are an outdated 'best of airsoft' with only thier GBBs sill holding a place in the market. The aegs are a bit old.

Best bets? King arms, G&P, VFC, Inokatsu, Ares, or G&G.

Your question is a bit open ended.... 'what brand' well.... each brand is better at certain guns than others.... Its impossible to say 'this am best brand'

pick a gun, re ask the question, and we can actually give a straight answer... otherwise its all conjecture, and a bit random.

cheers FK , i havnt decided on what gun i want yet. i was just looking for sugestions on makes that are known for their reliability. but thanks for naming a few there. im going to research more on guns i have my eye on then come back and ask peoples opinions on them

cathal_flynn

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Sorry that would explain the choice of the word new instead of first
Have you considered a Real Sword AK? They are exceptional.

i have used one of them befor...damn there good but they dont suit me :rolleyes:

Hande hoche!

Well they are due to bring out a M16/M4 range this Summer. So might be worth holding off for one.

Firekitten

That narrows it down...

Inari

King Arms have EXCELLENT externals, as do G&P. Inokatsu are probably king of that market, but you will pay (and pay and pay) for it.

Internals wise, G&P are one of the best, if not the best, for stock gearboxes. Ares and ICS are two more good brands, at least in my opinion.

Are you looking for something a little more obscure? If so, try something like the G&G Sig 552

cathal_flynn

Inari wrote: »

King Arms have EXCELLENT externals, as do G&P. Inokatsu are probably king of that market, but you will pay (and pay and pay) for it.

Internals wise, G&P are one of the best, if not the best, for stock gearboxes. Ares and ICS are two more good brands, at least in my opinion.

Are you looking for something a little more obscure? If so, try something like the G&G Sig 552

that exactly the help i was looking for
cheers

bullets

I Like King Arms! even though I've only two guns by them they've not
and any major issues with them and the've never been modified and fire
very nicely.

I dont know of GFC is a good make or not but I bought one before as a present
for someone and its never given any trouble. Fires great, and range is suberb.

I was shocked that for 190 Euro it came with
the following work already done out of the box!!!

Precision barrel 6,04mm
- MOSFET
- Metal ball bearing
- Reinforced TORQUE-UP gears
- Piston head with bearing - Reinforced piston with metal teeth
- Low-resistance wires
- Metal guide
- Increased torque
- M90 spring

Its sold out from where I got it but I thought it was a good price!
and small enough to be a back up gun you can throw into the boot of
a car in case your main AEG breaks down.

http://www.seairsoft.net/product_details.php?id=474&sub=65&subcat=Sold%20Out


~B

Firekitten

GFC are not a make, like ASG or Echo1. They are a rebrander.

They do a line of 'upgraded' guns themselves, based I belive, on JG m4s, tune up the box and replace parts. But thats about all they do. Ive seen one of thier m4s, they're rather nice.

$kilkenny

from what ive heard for performance out of the box KWA as suppose to be the bees knees in that statement.. are they?? i dont know as im on the market for a new M4 myself and have done alot of reading up on them
KWA for internals but has good externals
G&P for externals but still has good internals


from what i have gathered that about it. and apparently KWAs shoot on lipos straight out of the box which i am interested to find out if they actually do.

But im also looking at getthing the G&P Magpul MOE m4 carbine
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/aeg/g-p-hong-kong/magpul-licensed-gandp-m4-carbine-moe-aeg-foliage-green.html

seems to be an excellent AEG and its a maybe for me.
theres a review here somewhere by knifey spoonie on the Magul G&P and is definatly worth a read.

Firekitten

No, utter hole. Kwa are no more lipo ready than any aeg on the market. That's the biggest airsoft urban myth propogated by the retailers.

Any gun is lipo ready... how long it remains lipo ready is another matter.

Kwa aegs arent worth the hype. Thier gas pistols... amazing. Aegs? meh, stick to the day job.

G&P would my my first choice for an ar15. Its gorgeous, and runs like a workhorse. Second choice? G&G, then King Arms.

cathal_flynn

$kilkenny wrote: »

from what ive heard for performance out of the box KWA as suppose to be the bees knees in that statement.. are they?? i dont know as im on the market for a new M4 myself and have done alot of reading up on them
KWA for internals but has good externals
G&P for externals but still has good internals


from what i have gathered that about it. and apparently KWAs shoot on lipos straight out of the box which i am interested to find out if they actually do.

But im also looking at getthing the G&P Magpul MOE m4 carbine
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/aeg/g-p-hong-kong/magpul-licensed-gandp-m4-carbine-moe-aeg-foliage-green.html

seems to be an excellent AEG and its a maybe for me.
theres a review here somewhere by knifey spoonie on the Magul G&P and is definatly worth a read.

KWA's cannot run on lipos haha i have seen it myself im sure they can handle 7.4 like most guns but ive seen about 3 kwa m4s being destroyed by 11.1 lipos

EDIT: damn FK bet me to that but yeah what she said

Firekitten

Saying an aeg can run on a lipo, is like saying a car can run on maze....


yes, it can, when refined into fuel, its not as though you can pour cans of corn into the tank...

Thing is here, lipo batteries come in different voltages. 7.4volt lipos, are roughly a 9.6v NiMH, which nearly every gun can handle, or should.

No worries.

hey, your gun runs that! its lipo ready!

can it run an 11.1v lipo?

Consider that roughly equivalent to... well, 12 volts nimh. boom. No, its not a literal or direct conversion, but its close.

What do people mean when they say lipo ready? they mean 11.1, which is all some folks think exists. Lipo ready is a massively variable statement.

Harveey

Oddy posted up a video a while back about the KWA being lipo ready, there lipo ready before there downgraded to the 1joule limit. Yes you can run them on an 11.1 lipo but in the long run, gearbox will not last as long + KWA parts from what I hear can be hard to get at times and there pricey aswell. If your getting one stick to a 7.4 lipo as FireKitten mentioned above. My suggestion get a good 7.4 with at least 2200+ mah and 30c rating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdKWLkUyqM

Firekitten

20-30c is fair enough... the c, or 'current' is how fast the juice flows out... so basically, your rate of fire rises with higher C for those that don't know. You can easily tune a rate of fire without drastically upping the voltage.


And some of the new KWA m4s come in at 340 stock anyway, so it wont change thier response to lipo batteries.

bullets

Firekitten wrote: »

GFC are not a make, like ASG or Echo1. They are a rebrander.

Ahh thanks for that, I had my suspicions it was a rebrander but just did not know for sure.
~B

Arkslippy

If you are going to invest in an out of the box model, then the budget will dictate performance and what you will get.

The ebb raider is imho the best out of box one.

I've just gotten a custom stubby m4 last week and it got its first run last night and I am totally convinced that you put your money into the internal of the gun instead of the brand.

Arkslippy

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad181/chavezkavana/QASM4Pistol-1.jpg

This one, but with a stock and a vfc loudner attached

Firekitten

That looks ghastly...


Tbh, if you buy a GOOD brand, you dont NEED to put as much money into the internals... its not 'buy an expensive brand' its buy a 'good' one. Then theres less to upgrade, if you even have to.


Imo, the ebb raider is a nice skirmish gun, but its an entry level skirmish gun. Plus, you hardly see them in the UK, only blowback g&g guns ive seen are the toptech line, and they are rare.

StevieGriff

Firekitten wrote: »

No, utter hole. Kwa are no more lipo ready than any aeg on the market. That's the biggest airsoft urban myth propogated by the retailers.

Any gun is lipo ready... how long it remains lipo ready is another matter.

Kwa aegs arent worth the hype. Thier gas pistols... amazing. Aegs? meh, stick to the day job.

G&P would my my first choice for an ar15. Its gorgeous, and runs like a workhorse. Second choice? G&G, then King Arms.

Opinions vary so much on KWA. Unusually KWA aegs that come from the states are rock solid, but European/HK ones are woeful.. Don't really understand that!?

Firekitten

And Ares from HK/EU rock, from the US, suck...


America is the crux of all problems.

StevieGriff

Firekitten wrote: »

And Ares from HK/EU rock, from the US, suck...


America is the crux of all problems.

Yup it's weird how the same product can just random loose its quality and reputation after being imported/exportedconfused:

Would be interesting to look into...just got an idea, check your facebook messages when ya get a chance:P

Firekitten

I have no messages, you lie.

StevieGriff

Firekitten wrote: »

I have no messages, you lie.

Well check again:pac:

Firekitten

You only just sent it :P you disapoint.

Arkslippy

Firekitten wrote: »

That looks ghastly...


e.

Suddenly don't fancy you so much.

The point is why spend 450 quid on something top of the range name and then start upgrading when qas for example will build you something for less that kicks their arses

Inari

Arkslippy wrote: »

Suddenly don't fancy you so much.

The point is why spend 450 quid on something top of the range name and then start upgrading when qas for example will build you something for less that kicks their arses

Because a lot of the money goes for external quality. A €300-400 rifle from G&P will have far better externals than the likes of JG, DBoys etc. Personally I rate the external quality of the replica quite high on my list of requirements, as a gearbox is a gearbox - you can buy drop-in replacements if you're not handy, normally for less than €100, which makes it cheaper than buying replacement externals

Firekitten

Arkslippy wrote: »

Suddenly don't fancy you so much.

The point is why spend 450 quid on something top of the range name and then start upgrading when qas for example will build you something for less that kicks their arses

Thank **** for that.

And you'll be waiting quite a while.

And if you'd listen, nobody said pay 450 for a name.

If you spend 450 on a quality aeg, you WONT NEED to spend that money upgrading it. That's the point.

bullets

One of my pet hates for airsoft is the overpriced after market that surrounds replacement of stock parts for guns.

I've no issues spending money on the guns themselves and I have no
issues buying an expensive brand over a cheap clone for quality
but it seems no matter how high quality you go! you rarely hear of
people say Oh that gun is perfect and you dont need to change a thing!

Sure aftermarket parts are good and improve things and fantastic for the person into the hobby/sport who wants to modify everything and get the best potential out of their gun but......... it absolutely kills me that you could spent a few hundred euro on an AEG thats a good brand and the first things you start to do it to change the internal parts to aftermarket parts.

When this becomes the "NORM" or its
assumed that when you buy a gun that you need to change parts or if the original parts are not good enough in the first place ya gotta wonder about brands and the accepted quality of things in the first place.

Some shops are charging 10-15 Euros for a Hop-up rubber!
its a tiny tiny tiny piece of rubber! If a bit of rubber that size is more expensive than a condom its the customer that's getting screwed.

Buy a 150 Euro gun or buy a 500 Euro gun and people will still feel the need
to go off and buy a replacement barrel, a replacement hop-up rubber, a replacement set of bushings, then need to shim, then maybe replace the nozzle or cylinder or spring, then change the connector type, maybe then change the gears. If ya really get snazzy then change the gearbox shell, then start to add mosfets. and thats only the insides, after that is pimping the outside!

Cant see why you just cant simply by a brand of gun thats good in Stock condition's that does not need any '""upgrades"" Good for both noobs and good for experienced people.

~B

damagegt

Since I bought my real sword type 56-2 I have done absolutely nothing to the internals and I couldn't be happier with it now I have and still am in the process of spending a bundle on the externals.

Firekitten

Bullets is absolutely correct.

its a farce really. The industry thrives on aftermarket parts, not the guns themselves.

The fetish that airsofters have found to upgrade upgrade upgrade for the sake of it is rather silly. Most decent guns are fine stock. As bullets said... hop rubber and tightbore.

My Ares Tar-21, and Ares Sa80a2, my G&P XM16, my VFC AK74n... what did i change?

Hop rubber and barrels.

Thats it.

Do I want to change anything else?

Not till it breaks, no. There is not much technical advantage, and NO advantage to range with the majority of upgrades. Frankly, buying a drop in gearbox replacement, is actually cheaper than swapping all your stock parts for upgraded 'longer life' parts. Where is the economics?

Airsofters see something shinty, that isnt in thier gun, and think it must be better. House with the golden windows syndrome.

StevieGriff

Agree with Bullets and Kitten but honestly the worst part is people buying all these parts, installing them and then saying "these suck, my gun is shooting worse..ect" where as the only problem is they either did a bad install or they didn't tune anything. Example: Expecting their super high mega torque gears to give them 30RPS and they haven't even shimmed the gears, or installing a super light weight piston that will help them run fast and the inside of the cylinder is bone dry..
I kinda lost track of the point I was making but I think the moral of the story is don't slap hundreds of euro of stuff into your gun and expect it to fire magical skittles the first time ya plug in your 18.1v lipo.

Admittedly I am after ordering €55 worth of internal parts for a gun that has been dead for over a year..

Firekitten

Sometimes, never upgrading a gun is best... Nomatter who, how amazingly magical, and how gifted a technicial is... When they open a Tokyo Marui gearbox, it will never be the same again.

Tm gearboxes are full of pixie dust, puppies, rainbows, and other amazing things. Tokyo Marui employ elves at thier factory in Japan to manufacture these items, and if you can stomach tm's stock 270-300, they will survive for many many years as though it was the first mag.

By all means, upgrade the barrel and rubber, but honestly? Some gearboxes will perform better left alone. Fancy parts may say they do x, y, or z, or can do x when facing north, and y, when facing south, or perhaps even juggle x y and z when it fancies it.

As a technician, I actually shy away from installing hyper uber super duper fancy parts completely in guns.

Different upgrades have different purposes...

Gears and motors, I'd upgrade for guns expecting high volumes of fire... for example, a support gun.

Air seal to cylinders, hop units etc, most guns, or more carefully applied to marksman rifles.

Smg? sod all.

Yes, upgrading parts, can have an advantage, but who's to say the part you are replacing, is worse than the part you are putting in? Does it say so on the box? Why must we presume stock parts are bad?

Emperor's new clothes syndrome.

Arkslippy

Firekitten wrote: »

Sometimes, never upgrading a gun is best... Nomatter who, how amazingly magical, and how gifted a technicial is... When they open a Tokyo Marui gearbox, it will never be the same again.

Tm gearboxes are full of pixie dust, puppies, rainbows, and other amazing things. Tokyo Marui employ elves at thier factory in Japan to manufacture these items, and if you can stomach tm's stock 270-300, they will survive for many many years as though it was the first mag.

By all means, upgrade the barrel and rubber, but honestly? Some gearboxes will perform better left alone. Fancy parts may say they do x, y, or z, or can do x when facing north, and y, when facing south, or perhaps even juggle x y and z when it fancies it.

As a technician, I actually shy away from installing hyper uber super duper fancy parts completely in guns.

Different upgrades have different purposes...

Gears and motors, I'd upgrade for guns expecting high volumes of fire... for example, a support gun.

Air seal to cylinders, hop units etc, most guns, or more carefully applied to marksman rifles.

Smg? sod all.

Yes, upgrading parts, can have an advantage, but who's to say the part you are replacing, is worse than the part you are putting in? Does it say so on the box? Why must we presume stock parts are bad?

Emperor's new clothes syndrome.

It's actually more down to people not knowing what they are doing imho.

Always get an expert to do. these things for you.

Firekitten

Entirely depends on the tech. Some, will tell you you need everything, some will tell you what you really need.

Being a tech, doesnt make anyone understand how and why airsoft guns work.

It just means they don't **** up taking it apart, and putting it together.

Puding

have to agree with what other have said hear

when doing work im very much against unnecessary upgrades as i see it all to often

i;ve lost track of the number of times i;ve had people come up to me asking for 200 euros of random upgrades because they had read a forum post and these where the new 'i win' button

9 time out of 10 they need none of them or can do exactly the same for 30euros

when ever i get someone asking about upgrades i have to get them to answer the question, 'what exactly are you trying to do?' at of the time there upgrading for the sack of upgrades

it is like being back in Essex boy racers and ford fiestas

have a great example had a guy try and fix some +/- 20fps in fps by spending 200euros+ on parts, all they needed for a 1 euro roll of ptfe tape

MonkeyGuy

I agree with the barrel and hopup bit but I also think possibly high-speed motors and definitely better batteries could be put into this category. Anything else is mainly about making sure it doesn't break.