Suing as a member of a club

shaneybaby

Can you sue a club/society you are a member of?
I'm sure i spotted something on this before here that if you are a member of a club you can't sue the club as you would be essentially suing yourself!

http://www.supremecourt.ie/Judgments.nsf/1b0757edc371032e802572ea0061450e/6fe4577c7404a81480257585003dc825?OpenDocument
is the only case i can find on the point, where the member DID sue...so it has me confused.

Nothing urgent about it, just nearly got smacked with a golf ball at the weekend and was wondering about it;)

also found this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51812899 and in particular the post by dermot sheehan
Murphy v. Rock (No. 2) can't find it though....

PCPhoto

you can sue - but you will more than likely be treated different by other members of the club once word spreads that you are suing.

if you have a legitimate claim - go for it - but be prepared that any legal action will more than likely result in others in the club viewing you in a different manner (ie. some people may consider it unethical or metaphorically similar to washing dirty linen in public)

Correct me if I'm wrong ....but.....The case you highlighted was more of a defamation claim than suing their club/society.

if you are hurt/injured at the club/society and it was not your fault (you said you were almost hit by a golfball - in this case you should report the matter to the club/society along with recommendations on how to avoid members getting hit (keep a copy for yourself to document when committee was informed of danger area) - if your recommendations are ignored and someone is hit - they have a legitimate claim.... but more than likely a civil court action for injuries.

Zambia

Why sue the club and not the bloke who fired the ball?

Do we sue the person responsible or who can afford more?

Zambia

PCPhoto wrote: »

you can sue - but you will more than likely be treated different by other members of the club once word spreads that you are suing.

if you have a legitimate claim - go for it - but be prepared that any legal action will more than likely result in others in the club viewing you in a different manner (ie. some people may consider it unethical or metaphorically similar to washing dirty linen in public)

+1 Plus the club head hurts more than the ball

shaneybaby

It just got me thinking more than anything else.

The case i quoted was solely because a member of a club sued the club of which he was a member...which doesn't make any sense. The club is not incorporated and not unlike a partnership.

I realise i could claim after the guy who hit the ball (on a seperate point is it really negligence to mi**** a golf ball??) He wasn't (i hope;) aiming for me and in fact i was pretty rooted in a bunch of trees betwee the two fairways at the time (going the opposite direction) but i know it's fine to sue a fellow member individually.

Anyway back on point i'm probably going to have to leave it until tonight but is till don't think i can sue a club i am a member of.

Zambia

But on what grounds can you sue the club even if your membership was not a factor. How did the club cause your injury?

coylemj

You may find that it is a condition of playing the course (as a member or guest) that you accept the risks that goes with being on a golf course viz. that you are at risk from being hit by a ball despite the best efforts of the club and your fellow members.

If a member invited me down to the club for a drink and my car gets hit by a ball in the car park then I might have a basis for a claim in that the club could have erected a high mesh fence to catch any stray balls but if you're hit while actually on the course I can't see you having any basis for a claim against the club itself, whatever about suing the individual who's ball hit you.

shaneybaby

Zambia wrote: »

But on what grounds can you sue the club even if your membership was not a factor. How did the club cause your injury?

Sorry, bad example. I'm involved in litigation cases everyday of the week and it's never been something that's come up but has me racking my brain a bit (i hate saying this next bit)

Hypothetical situation.

Simple trip and fall on club property, the trip which was due to the club not ensuring (i dunno) the bins were adequately stored or something.

Jo King

coylemj wrote: »

You may find that it is a condition of playing the course (as a member or guest) that you accept the risks that goes with being on a golf course viz. that you are at risk from being hit by a ball despite the best efforts of the club and your fellow members.

If a member invited me down to the club for a drink and my car gets hit by a ball in the car park then I might have a basis for a claim in that the club could have erected a high mesh fence to catch any stray balls but if you're hit while actually on the course I can't see you having any basis for a claim against the club itself, whatever about suing the individual who's ball hit you.

A person cannot contract out of their right to sue for personal injury. A major issue is the legal personality of the club. Some are co-op structures and others are limited companies.

Solair

Would it not be the case that being hit in the head by a golf ball is a hazard of the game? There's very little a club can do to prevent it other than require all the members to use special Fisher-Price my first golf balls

Also you nearly got hit in the head!

Ken.

Solair wrote: »

Would it not be the case that being hit in the head by a golf ball is a hazard of the game? There's very little a club can do to prevent it other than require all the members to use special Fisher-Price my first golf balls

Or helmets.

chunkylover4

Jo King wrote: »

A person cannot contract out of their right to sue for personal injury. A major issue is the legal personality of the club. Some are co-op structures and others are limited companies.

But they can largely negate liability by doing so, it seems that there is also a voluntary assumption of risk at play.

Jimdagym

Solair wrote: »

Also you nearly got hit in the head!

OP isn't trying to sue anyone. The "incident" just got them thinking.

Zambia

shaneybaby wrote: »

Simple trip and fall on club property, the trip which was due to the club not ensuring (i dunno) the bins were adequately stored or something.

Ah that would be different.

However it still would not get you well liked on the 19th.

milltown

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/one-of-you-is-lying-judge-in-golf-battle-2181650.html

This came to mind.

One of the protagonists initially wanted to sue the club for damages but backed down when he realised he would effectively be suing every member and be a pariah. FWIW, the case ended in stalemate with each having to pay their own costs. A princely sum.

I was actually playing golf in the states a few years back when my playing partner was struck by a ball from the group behind us. The injury required a few stitches to the head and a few paracetamol. The course/club offered to pay anything that wasn't covered by medical insurance, it all was as it happened, and gave us a free game including club and cart hire whenever we wanted.

You can read that two ways. A. The club was offering compensation because it accepted liability, or B. They would have washed their hands of it and offered the lawyer's number as a contact if they thought they were liable.

My own opinion is, they handled it impeccably and couldn't be held accountable for anything that happened. Flying golf balls are a feature of the game. Unless you're prepared to pay to have the course to yourself, man up and accept that the odd stray ball might "nearly" hit you.

shaneybaby

Zambia wrote: »

Ah that would be different.

However it still would not get you well liked on the 19th.

Yeah i realise the social side of things, suing your buddies doesn't prompt good relations.

Had a decent look in a few books last night and i still can't find Murphy v Rock (no2) but from chatting to a few others in here it seems to be correct. You can't sue a club you are a member of.

shaneybaby

Solair wrote: »

Would it not be the case that being hit in the head by a golf ball is a hazard of the game? There's very little a club can do to prevent it other than require all the members to use special Fisher-Price my first golf balls

Also you nearly got hit in the head!

milltown wrote: »

Flying golf balls are a feature of the game. Unless you're prepared to pay to have the course to yourself, man up and accept that the odd stray ball might "nearly" hit you.

Lads just to make clear i'm not some sort of serial litigant who wants to come on here looking for a prompt to sue everyone and their uncle. To be honest i'm more likely to injure someone than the other way round knowing my game.

The ball whizzing past my ear simply got me thinking whether it would be possible to sue the club even though i'm a member. I have less than zero intention of suing anyone at this moment and time In any event it seems i can't

Manach

Would there be any contributory neglience in this as well. Given that a player would need to keep a note of where their golf-partner is playing from.
Saying that, given the amount of terrible hook shots I've played - the idea of helmets for all has merit

Jo King

chunkylover4 wrote: »

But they can largely negate liability by doing so, it seems that there is also a voluntary assumption of risk at play.

You are confusing a contractual defence and a defence of volenti non fit injuria.
The contractual defence cannot work in the case of personal injury.
Volenti non fit injuria means a person accepts the normal hazards inherent in any activity. There are other defences based on the practicality of precautions and public policy. There is a famous English case involving a passer by being struck by a cricket ball. Lord Denning refused liabilty on the basis it would destroy English life if cricket couldn't be played on the village green.

shaneybaby

Jo King wrote: »

There is a famous English case involving a passer by being struck by a cricket ball. Lord Denning refused liabilty on the basis it would destroy English life if cricket couldn't be played on the village green.

That was the Millar case i think, but it was more with Cricket balls raining in on a house (checked and it's miller v jackson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v_Jackson).
There is another Bolton v Stone whereby a cricket club were not negligent if the damage to the plaintiff was not a reasonably foreseeable consequence of the clubs conduct. In that case a guy got hit on the head by a cricket ball when walking outside the ground. Quite similar to our golf ball senario.
I think it's definitely time for Titleist Branded Helmets!!

dermot_sheehan

I made a typo in my original post,

It's Murphy v. Roche (No. 2) [1987] 1 I.R 656

shaneybaby

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

I made a typo in my original post,

It's Murphy v. Roche (No. 2) [1987] 1 I.R 656

There's my answer;) thanks for that dermot

barry zx10

On a light side, if you were in the trees between fairways you then have an understanding that the ball does not go where you intend.
Did you make the other player aware that you were close to your fairway.
Did he shout fore.
if you did not identify that you were in the trees adjacent to his fairway ? how can you show intent.

It's a tough situation but i understand your curiosity.
Don't think you would be popular in club when subs go up.

234

Jo King wrote: »

You are confusing a contractual defence and a defence of volenti non fit injuria.
The contractual defence cannot work in the case of personal injury.
Volenti non fit injuria means a person accepts the normal hazards inherent in any activity.

Volenti non fit injuria has been almost totally displaced by S31(1)(b) (accorind to McM&B anyway). You required some kind of waiver of your rights and simply standing on a golf course would probably not be enough.

brian__foley

There is a huge amount of case-law on this. Irish law leans heavily against a member of a club or association suing the club or association of which he is a member on the logic that one is, in essence, suing oneself; Murphy v Roche [1987] IR 656 ; Kirwan v Mackey Byrne & Ors Unreported, High Court, 18th January 1995 (Carney J.).

On occasion you can find cases which simply seem to ignore this altogether.

There are several (relatively old) examples of members bringing suit against their clubs where such suit does not relate to negligence etc. See e.g. Baird v Wells [1890] Ch. D. 661; Thellusson v Viscount Valentia [1906] 1 Ch. D. 480.

NUTLEY BOY

brian__foley wrote: »

There is a huge amount of case-law on this. Irish law leans heavily against a member of a club or association suing the club or association of which he is a member on the logic that one is, in essence, suing oneself; Murphy v Roche [1987] IR 656 ; Kirwan v Mackey Byrne & Ors Unreported, High Court, 18th January 1995 (Carney J.).

On occasion you can find cases which simply seem to ignore this altogether.

There are several (relatively old) examples of members bringing suit against their clubs where such suit does not relate to negligence etc. See e.g. Baird v Wells [1890] Ch. D. 661; Thellusson v Viscount Valentia [1906] 1 Ch. D. 480.

I am curious. What cases have gone against the unity defence ?