Witness costs? Unusual scenario.

il gatto

Hi, this is messy so bear with me, please.
Basically, I was called as a prosecution witness in a case with regards proving evidence (CCTV). Problem is, it was in a criminal trial where two of my friends and work colleagues of the last 6 or 7 years were the accused. Being called by the prosecution doesn't mean there is a bar on the defence getting any opinions out of me on the stand, which they did, which would support their side. When I was to be dispensed with, the defence asked me to stay on as the most capable person to operate the CCTV. The prosecution said I wasn't wanted and wouldn't pay costs as they had a Garda there to operate it, but the judge told me I was a witness for the duration and would be operateing the CCTV.
Anyhoo, I work nights, and sevral months earlier, at the voir dire, the state solicitor told me to submit costs. I explained I worked nights but he said to claim my hourly rate plus a little extra for costs. I didn't do it as it was only a day and I wasn't sure of the procedure.
Fast forward to the trial and when the prosecution wanted rid of me, the State sct. told me my costs wouldn't be paid as he couldn't submit a bill for €3,000 to the Superintendent. Hmm. Judge informs me to stay and the case runs for 8 days. On the last day, the state sct. tells me to remember to submit costs. I ask him what would be ball park and he says to look for €40-€45 a day. Whoa. That's some drop from the €25 an hour (€175 a day) and €3,000 figures being bandied around before.
After the trial, another solicitor told me to remember costs and I asked how much. He said €150 ball park. When I mentioned the paltry €45 the state sct. suggested, he laughed. He reminded me that although I wasn't missing work, how many people would come home from work at 6.00p.m., go to court at 7.00p.m. and head home at 2.00a.m. and do it for minimal costs? All well and good, but reading up, I would need proof of earnings lost, and vouched expenses for meals, parking etc., none of which I was told in advance and now have none to produce.
What is the norm here? Does everything need to be vouched? Do I send my RSI number for tax reasons? Who do I even send the bill to? These people assume everyone is au fait with these things, but I haven't a clue. I spent the longest two weeks of my life in that court room, as a prosecution witness against my friends, and because i broke my hole working at night and attending court by day, I may get next to nothing. Especiallly annoying as I was there the second week purely as a technician rather than a witness, really.
If you read all this, thanks. I would appreciate advice from anyone who works in this field or has recent experience in something similar.

MagicSean

If you were a prosecution witness and the prosecution didn't want you I don't see why you were there for the two weeks. If it was solely for operating the CCTV surely it's the courts service that should be paying you for that work, much like a translator. If the defence asked you to stay then it's them who'll be paying.

Did you miss any work at all? You don't get paid for being a witness. You only get any costs refunded. Travel, parking, meals, lost wages and the like. That's my understanding of it but I don't deal with it very often so I could be wrong.

Milk & Honey

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

If you were a prosecution witness and the prosecution didn't want you I don't see why you were there for the two weeks. If it was solely for operating the CCTV surely it's the courts service that should be paying you for that work, much like a translator.

A witness has to stay for the whole of a trial unless excused by the judge.Once3 called by one side the witness is their witness the fact that there was an objection to their being excused does not mean the witness transfers to the other side.

il gatto

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

If you were a prosecution witness and the prosecution didn't want you I don't see why you were there for the two weeks. If it was solely for operating the CCTV surely it's the courts service that should be paying you for that work, much like a translator. If the defence asked you to stay then it's them who'll be paying.

Did you miss any work at all? You don't get paid for being a witness. You only get any costs refunded. Travel, parking, meals, lost wages and the like. That's my understanding of it but I don't deal with it very often so I could be wrong.

After I had taken the stand, the prosecution were worried in case I would show bias on being recalled or in my operation of the CCTV. The judge overruled their objection and said I would be retained to operate the CCTV for the duration.
Although I missed no work, it was a big imposition. My dog got no exercise, I barely saw my fiancé and I got by most days on 4 hours sleep. Over the bank holiday, I had to work 2 nights. I really doubt the courts would be able to operate if most people were expected to appear on their free time for scant costs. Like I said, if people were expected to attend from 7pm to 2am, I believe they would want some sort of payment.

MagicSean

il gatto wrote: »

After I had taken the stand, the prosecution were worried in case I would show bias on being recalled or in my operation of the CCTV. The judge overruled their objection and said I would be retained to operate the CCTV for the duration.
Although I missed no work, it was a big imposition. My dog got no exercise, I barely saw my fiancé and I got by most days on 4 hours sleep. Over the bank holiday, I had to work 2 nights. I really doubt the courts would be able to operate if most people were expected to appear on their free time for scant costs. Like I said, if people were expected to attend from 7pm to 2am, I believe they would want some sort of payment.

The courts would work fine because the witness doesn't have a choice wether they attend or not. A witness summons requires them to. The reason they are limited to costs is so that theres no chance of any financial influence on them. You were unlucky. Most witnesses would not be required for the whole duration. Look at it another way. If you were the victim or defendant, how would you feel about a witness who didn't show up to help your side because they weren't paid enough. Or how would you feel about a witness who only showed up for the other side because they were paid well.

il gatto

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

The courts would work fine because the witness doesn't have a choice wether they attend or not. A witness summons requires them to. The reason they are limited to costs is so that theres no chance of any financial influence on them. You were unlucky. Most witnesses would not be required for the whole duration. Look at it another way. If you were the victim or defendant, how would you feel about a witness who didn't show up to help your side because they weren't paid enough. Or how would you feel about a witness who only showed up for the other side because they were paid well.

In an individual case, yes, a witness must show up. But if every witness in every case was deprived of sleep and free time, then I doubt the system would have the same structure as it does.
However, after I gave evidence on day 3, I was there as a technician. I played CCTV as required. The Garda the pros. Originally lined up would've been getting paid his full wage and possibly overtime.
What has annoyed me is that at the voir dire, €25 an hour was suggested, but when I have to stay put for 2 weeks on the direction of the judge, I barely get enough to cover costs when in fact I was there to use my "expertise", something people are normally paid for. It's not a case of a witness not bothering to show because they want loads of money. I was 2 weeks there on direction of the judge for reasons not covered by the description of "witness".
I'll take whatever sum I get as I need to recoup what the fortnight cost me, but I will be very reticent to basically "work" for the courts for free again. My employer pays me for every hour spent poring over CCTV, why should I do it for the state for nothing?

hardCopy

il gatto wrote: »

In an individual case, yes, a witness must show up. But if every witness in every case was deprived of sleep and free time, then I doubt the system would have the same structure as it does.
However, after I gave evidence on day 3, I was there as a technician. I played CCTV as required. The Garda the pros. Originally lined up would've been getting paid his full wage and possibly overtime.
What has annoyed me is that at the voir dire, €25 an hour was suggested, but when I have to stay put for 2 weeks on the direction of the judge, I barely get enough to cover costs when in fact I was there to use my "expertise", something people are normally paid for. It's not a case of a witness not bothering to show because they want loads of money. I was 2 weeks there on direction of the judge for reasons not covered by the description of "witness".
I'll take whatever sum I get as I need to recoup what the fortnight cost me, but I will be very reticent to basically "work" for the courts for free again. My employer pays me for every hour spent poring over CCTV, why should I do it for the state for nothing?

Sounds like a disaster OP, you should have taken the two weeks off work and billed them for the lot.

MagicSean

il gatto wrote: »

In an individual case, yes, a witness must show up. But if every witness in every case was deprived of sleep and free time, then I doubt the system would have the same structure as it does.
However, after I gave evidence on day 3, I was there as a technician. I played CCTV as required. The Garda the pros. Originally lined up would've been getting paid his full wage and possibly overtime.
What has annoyed me is that at the voir dire, €25 an hour was suggested, but when I have to stay put for 2 weeks on the direction of the judge, I barely get enough to cover costs when in fact I was there to use my "expertise", something people are normally paid for. It's not a case of a witness not bothering to show because they want loads of money. I was 2 weeks there on direction of the judge for reasons not covered by the description of "witness".
I'll take whatever sum I get as I need to recoup what the fortnight cost me, but I will be very reticent to basically "work" for the courts for free again. My employer pays me for every hour spent poring over CCTV, why should I do it for the state for nothing?

I agree with you. I think you should send a bill for your services to courts services and an expenses bill to the prosecution.