C class fighters being paid?

BigMan29

Should C class fighters under the new unified rules be paid? Or even given a cash incentive 'fight of the night' sub & ko of the night award? (should open up a good debate )

bjj-fighter

I think commission from tickets is good, I think that's what Cage Contender do.

cowzerp

Why would you get payed for doing something at amateur level that you love, the pro choice is there for people who Want to get paid and the c class fights are helping fighters develop there skills for if they want to go pro

Nobody is forced to fight and it should be considered the reward for your hard training, people would not train as much if they where not fighting so it's a great motivator

Amateur is best left unpaid and then people who do it fir the cash will turn pro and need to have a few c class fights to gain experience.

RoboRat

I don't think so, I would consider C class as work experience for B/A class.

Tito Ortiz

cowzerp wrote: »

Why would you get payed for doing something at amateur level that you love, the pro choice is there for people who Want to get paid and the c class fights are helping fighters develop there skills for if they want to go pro

Nobody is forced to fight and it should be considered the reward for your hard training, people would not train as much if they where not fighting so it's a great motivator

Amateur is best left unpaid and then people who do it fir the cash will turn pro and need to have a few c class fights to gain experience.

I think this is bull, it's an excuse for promoters to make more money. Many C class fights I have been involved in and watched were often better than those of the pro fighters. We train the same and put in the same time training as many pro fighters. I think all C class fighters should get something for fighting (discount on tickets etc). I think the experience argument does not really stand up as some guys will have 1 fight at C and then move up, while other guys could have 4-5 fights at C and in my view have more experience.

Jason McCabe

We used to pay C but now give a ticket deal.

The issue also stands that as soon as you pay someone to fight their club insurance does not cover them.

El Guapo!

As has been said I think getting commission from selling tickets is probably the extent of it.
If you want to get paid then turn pro.
In saying that, if a promotion offers bonuses for fight of the night/sub of the night/ ko of the night then maybe the C-class guys should be included.
But I don't think they should expect to be paid for the fight.
As another poster said its like work experience for the real thing.
Just my opinion anyway.

pablohoney87

Dont think C-Class should be gettin paid.
However I'm not the biggest fan of the current system. Id rather somethin like give the fighter maybe 3-4 free tickets. Then they have the choice between tryna sell them off or giving them to their family for free or something.
As it stands for the cut fighters get outta the tickets its not worth the bother of chasin people round for money the week of your fight. For Battlezone I had originally 22-25 people lookin for tickets. As it came to fight week and time for people to put their hands in their pockets that became 6.
So I reckon it would be better to get a small number of free tickets and choose yourself to hand them away to your family or sell them on.

curious100

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Dont think C-Class should be gettin paid.
However I'm not the biggest fan of the current system. Id rather somethin like give the fighter maybe 3-4 free tickets. Then they have the choice between tryna sell them off or giving them to their family for free or something.
As it stands for the cut fighters get outta the tickets its not worth the bother of chasin people round for money the week of your fight. For Battlezone I had originally 2-25 people lookin for tickets. As it came to fight week and time for people to put their hands in their pockets that became 6.
So I reckon it would be better to get a small number of free tickets and choose yourself to hand them away to your family or sell them on.

Couldn't agree more, there is a lot of stress for a fighter trying to get money of people for tickets on the run up to their fight, stress that they could be doing without, it would be a good gesture for a promoter to give some free tickets to the fighter, a lot of shows have mainly C class fights and these fighters do get a lot of support which sells tickets.

cowzerp

Most fighters do it because they love it, it actually sickens me when lads expect money for fighting Amateur when they have the choice to fight Pro
The name is the give away AMATEUR, no combat sport pays amateurs to fight.

It's worth noting that most the lads who fight C class pay to enter BJJ tournaments, MMA leagues, etc and are very happy to have the chance to test out there skills outside the gym enviroment and ask me can they fight and are grateful and cant make money off tickets, remember you can fight on show and sell zero tickets also.

If you dont like it don't do it, go and pay to gain your experience in the leagues and sub wrestling comps etc

At C class it's a hobby lets be straight with that, even County GAA players don't get paid and they can play in front of 80,000 fans, When you fight Pro which you can if your good enough you will get paid.

How will you know your good enough? by doing C class fights and gaining experience

I'd much rather see the Pro's make more money to be honest

If money is your objective go do a degree with your training time and become a doctor or something, or fight Pro cause the option is there for you and there is a need for more Pro fighters and many promotions happyy to pay you.

Just to finish my rant!
Don't compete if you don't love it as your doing yourself your club and the crowd an injustice.

pablohoney87

cowzerp wrote: »

Don't compete if you don't love it as your doing yourself your club and the crowd an injustice.

And thats the Big one. As I said they shouldnt be paid to do what is essentially a hobby but if the promoter is gonna make a gesture the one I mentioned is what I prefer. Even a trophy/medal/free dvd of the event Id rather as a gesture. If I was even remotely interested in the money I wouldnt be doin this as Ive to give up 2 of my few days work to weigh in and fight.

Mellor

cowzerp wrote: »

The name is the give away AMATEUR, no combat sport pays amateurs to fight.

Just to expand on that, no amateurs get paid in ANY sport. It's pretty much one of the defining characteristics of amatuer.

Even look at pro golf tourney where amateurs can enter, if the amateur wins he gets no prize money and first place goes to no.2

SBG Ireland

i agree that there should be no pay for amateurs bar commission on ticket sales.

however

as someone with no allegiance to any show and doesnt promote let me tell you how it works

if i as a coach had a c class fighter that was guartunteed to sell +100 tickets at 20euros each (100 x 20 = 2000e) i could 'negotiate' a pay day for him handy enough. its simple economics and that's how it is.

Hanley

Is there any data on how much pro fighters are getting paid?

Like would they get paid enough during the year to be able to survive without a part time job and focus all their energies on training? How many times a year would they need to fight if they wanted to achieve that?

Sensitive enough topic so lets keep it general

gary s

I would say even the top pros in Ireland would have to fight every week to make a wage they could survive on

cowzerp

gary s wrote: »

I would say even the top pros in Ireland would have to fight every week to make a wage they could survive on

In Ireland they'd be making an ok weekly wage if they fought every week, but this is not realistic so in reality there all hoping for a big break if it's a career there after, UFC for example.

Even at pro level most do it for the love of it and the money is a bonus, hard earned 1 but 1 all the same, until big sponsorship comes in then I think it will never be money that will be life changing.

Jason McCabe

People also need to understand the difference between fighting Pro rules and being a Pro.

Martin Walker

Jason McCabe wrote: »

People also need to understand the difference between fighting Pro rules and being a Pro.

This is spot on.
Are there actually any Professional MMA fighters in Ireland? As in fight for a living and dont work a day to day 40hr a week job??

Also as an answer to the OP question I think the new c-class should be paid.

wingnut4

i think a few free tickets to give to say your partner or friend or something would be good to be fair

Clive

We need to separate the ruleset people are fighting under from the issue of payment. You can fight under A class rules and not be paid and you can fight under C class rules and be paid. It's up to promoters to decide how and if they will pay particular classes and coaches/managers to see if they're happy with what's on offer.

The argument that "C class fighters shouldn't be paid because they're amateur" and "they're amateur because they're not being paid" is just circular reasoning. "Amateur" is just a name people put on C class, traditionally that ruleset was always referred to as "semi-pro". Some shows pay C class fighters, does that mean it's not "amateur" anymore? Again it's just a name.

The rules are "C class", payment is up to promoters.

The argument that C class fighters should be happy with the experience and not be paid is fine, but where does that end? You could say then that B class shouldn't be paid because they're not fighting with full rules, and they should be happy with the experience. Again "pro B" is just a label - you could just as easily call B class "advanced amateur".

The whole point of different classes is to let people learn from the ground up without being thrown in at the deep end. "If you want to be paid just fight B class" is fine but ultimately it defeats the purpose of having a C class if fighters are jumping straight to B class just to minimise the financial loss they make.

Anyway that rambling aside it should be obvious that I think C class fighters should be paid. Not a lot, but something, just as a matter of courtesy. To not pay them anything, to me, sends the message that they're not adding value to the show.

Imagine you're running a sales team for the summer and you have:

• Some year round staff (A class)
• Some expeienced staff who've been back each summer for a few years (B class)
• Some students looking for experience (C class)

If the students are hitting the same targets as the other staff, just with a bit more supervision, to me, they should be paid at least something for their work. Now granted it's good business not to, and particularly in the current climate you'll get people to work for free, but that doesn't make it right.

Also, commission for selling tickets is just commission for selling tickets, it's not payment for fighting.

El Guapo!

noun

• a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

That's the definition of amateur in the Oxford dictionary.

So purely by definition if somebody gets paid for fighting then its a professional fight.

If by your reasoning people should be paid for fighting at C class, then where's the incentive to turn pro?

As I said I'm all for giving them commission from ticket sales, or fight of the night bonuses etc. Or even if the promoter makes an agreement to pay the fighter a certain fee that's perfectly fine- Congratulations and its a well deserved reward for the time and effort you put in, but I don't think people should expect to be paid for fighting, or complain that they don't get paid.

Clive

Dean09 wrote: »

So purely by definition if somebody gets paid for fighting then its a professional fight.

If by your reasoning people should be paid for fighting at C class, then where's the incentive to turn pro?

This is exactly my point. Calling C class "amateur" is just assigning it a name. I know fighters who have been paid for C class fights, they still moved up to different classes.

If B class fighters are considered "pro" then why would they ever move to A class? For all the same reasons people move up from C class, regardless if they've been paid or not.

El Guapo!

Clive wrote: »

This is exactly my point. Calling C class "amateur" is just assigning it a name. I know fighters who have been paid for C class fights, they still moved up to different classes.

If B class fighters are considered "pro" then why would they ever move to A class? For all the same reasons people move up from C class, regardless if they've been paid or not.

Fair point I suppose. I see where your coming from.

BigMan29

after reading through these various arguments for and against C class fighters being paid, ive come to the conclusion that...... 'ladder matches' shud b introduced to irishmma.

crosdad

cowzerp wrote: »

Most fighters do it because they love it, it actually sickens me when lads expect money for fighting Amateur when they have the choice to fight Pro
.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. don't know about this. most lads don't have the choice to just turn pro if they want to, most coaches wont just let a guy jump straight into pro rules just becuase he wants to.

My whole thing is that fighting and training is very expensive. you have to pay for training, gloves, gum shields, cups, shin guards, supplements etc............ and that that the guys at c class are taking the exact same risks as guys fighting at b and a class. I hate when people on this forum say ' c class' or ' amatuer' as if its something less dangerous and totally seperate from the other classes. c class fighters are taking the exact same risks as the other fighters and are going through the exact same training as everyone else.

To be honest, i would prefer if there was just one class. from what i've seen there are alot of guys who have fought at a or b class jumping back down to c class, i just think no matter what class your fighting at, you still run the risk of getting knocked out, beaten up, your teeth knocked out, for all you know you could be fighting a future gsp, so i dont think its any safer.

If there was just one class i think things would be alot simpler. You don't see the ufc with their 2 rules sets, and the fact that up til recently we had a class where a guy could knock someone out on their feet but couldn't strike on the ground shows how people's idea of fair and safe over here are a bit ridiclous. This is a bit off point, im not saying c class fighters should be paid. i just don't agreee with people who think its unresonable to pay them or unfair to pay them when their taking the same risks as everyone else.

cowzerp

crosdad wrote: »

I hate when people on this forum say ' c class' or ' amatuer' as if its something less dangerous and totally seperate from the other classes. c class fighters are taking the exact same risks as the other fighters and are going through the exact same training as everyone else..

Training for 3 minute rounds does not require the same as for 5 minute rounds!

It is far less dangerous and not the same risks, some reasons below.

Extra padded gloves, knuckles just like 10oz boxing gloves.
No heel hooks, neck cranks, Elbows
3min rounds which makes it way more safer than 5mins
And importantly-The refs are quicker to save C class fighters than Pro's.

crosdad wrote: »

To be honest, i would prefer if there was just one class.

This is where your argument dies a painful death, Getting relative inexperienced fighters doing the more dangerous rules is a recipe for disaster.

boxer.fan

crosdad wrote: »

Hmmmmmmmmmm. don't know about this. most lads don't have the choice to just turn pro if they want to, most coaches wont just let a guy jump straight into pro rules just becuase he wants to.

My whole thing is that fighting and training is very expensive. you have to pay for training, gloves, gum shields, cups, shin guards, supplements etc............ and that that the guys at c class are taking the exact same risks as guys fighting at b and a class. I hate when people on this forum say ' c class' or ' amatuer' as if its something less dangerous and totally seperate from the other classes. c class fighters are taking the exact same risks as the other fighters and are going through the exact same training as everyone else.

To be honest, i would prefer if there was just one class. from what i've seen there are alot of guys who have fought at a or b class jumping back down to c class, i just think no matter what class your fighting at, you still run the risk of getting knocked out, beaten up, your teeth knocked out, for all you know you could be fighting a future gsp, so i dont think its any safer.

If there was just one class i think things would be alot simpler. You don't see the ufc with their 2 rules sets, and the fact that up til recently we had a class where a guy could knock someone out on their feet but couldn't strike on the ground shows how people's idea of fair and safe over here are a bit ridiclous. This is a bit off point, im not saying c class fighters should be paid. i just don't agreee with people who think its unresonable to pay them or unfair to pay them when their taking the same risks as everyone else.

So many holes in this argument, it borders on ridiculous. Totally agree with cowzerp.
By limiting the range of techniques available to a fighter, then surely the chances of their opponent getting KO'd / submitted becomes less.

bazooka joe

in my opinion c class fighters should get paid more than the main event fighters cos they don't get money from sponsorship and in my experience most c class fighters dont have cars

bjj-fighter

bazooka joe wrote: »

in my experience most c class fighters dont have cars

Haha thats quotable. I think its completely down to the individual, so that was a pretty ridiculous, yet humorous, statement.

pablohoney87

bazooka joe wrote: »

in my opinion c class fighters should get paid more than the main event fighters cos they don't get money from sponsorship

I think Sunday league Footballers should get paid more than premiership players for the same reason

bazooka joe wrote: »

and in my experience most c class fighters dont have cars

WTF does that have to do with anything????

El Guapo!

bazooka joe wrote: »

in my opinion c class fighters should get paid more than the main event fighters cos they don't get money from sponsorship and in my experience most c class fighters dont have cars

That's one of the weirdest statements I've ever read.

ryoishin

10 mins with the ring girl of their choice!

I think a few free tickets is reasonable.

Mouthalmighty

ryoishin wrote: »

10 mins with the ring girl of their choice!.

Nice novel idea in these recessionary times

I can see two sides to this argument

First many shows are barely making money,if not losing money, so paying C-class fighters may make the show unfeasible financially. So pro guys may not have as many opportunities to fight as there may not be as many shows (maybe a good thing I dunno).


A gesture may be a nice idea though for example covering a guys petrol costs down or a few tickets for mates or a small monetary gesture. As very often C-class fighters put a lot of bums in seats.
Now I have splinters from sitting on this fence.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mouthalmighty

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You would be surprised how many shows just about cover expenses with flip all profit to show for the effort of puttin it all together. Trust me been involved with a lot of shows & the lads/ladies running them are put to the pin of their collar after all the necessaries are paid. For example i know of a show where the promoter had something in the region of 70-100 quid profit after it was all said & done & I know others that lost money. Essentially putting on a show is a gamble, a poor turnout and you're hooshed.
Back to the thread, maybe a few tickets would be good or a few bob petrol money.

boxer.fan

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It is a common misconception that promoters walk away from shows with a suitcase of money. Very often the opposite applies, they walk away in debt. There is quite a few overheads that must be covered before there is even a ticket sold.

In a lot of cases coaches / promoters run shows in order to keep their fighters busy. In Ireland where there is a relatively small pot of competitors it can get difficult to get them fights on a regular basis, especially when they get more experienced, so running one or two home shows a year helps avoid rustyness.

C class / amateurs should not be paid IMO. They are being awarded an opportunity to hone and develop their skills in front of an audience in preparation for the pro scene. This is payment enough.

Jason McCabe

I tell you this now and you can believe it or not.

If I put the same amount of time I spend organising our show into my full time job I would walk away with probably 5 times the amount.

Any money we have made we generally pump back into our club to pay for equipment.

I'm pretty sure its the same for most other shows.

Tim_Murphy

Jason McCabe wrote: »

I tell you this now and you can believe it or not.

If I put the same amount of time I spend organising our show into my full time job I would walk away with probably 5 times the amount.

Any money we have made we generally pump back into our club to pay for equipment.

I'm pretty sure its the same for most other shows.

Exactly. Most Irish promoters are club owners and coaches, they ain't making huge money. From my own point of view, if I decide to run another TW in Galway it won't be to make money, realistically if it cleared a small profit or broke even that would be a good night. You could actually see Mark Leonard getting a bit greyer after ever show he ran! :pac: