Focus 1.8 TDCi or Mondeo 1.6 petrol?

Efioanaes

Hi folks, we have decided to change our 06 VW Passat 2.0 TDI.
We have it 2.5 years and theres been problem after problem with it.
Both rear wheel handbrake motors replaced,2 air bags replaced and only last week we have a new airbag fault, last summer i paid 900 euro to get an injector replaced.
We just have enough and are constantly waiting to see whats next.

After much viewing ive narrowed it down to two cars.

08 Mondeo 1.6 petrol which i really like but was down on power, not a big deal i hear you say but very noticeable compared to the VW 2.0 TDi.

This got me thinking of staying with diesel so this morning i drove
Ford Focus Zetec Climate 1.8 TDCi (2008) and was very impressed indeed.
Superb handling,very lively performance and like the mondeo great build quality.
I was worried about the focus size before i drove it but its a lot roomier than one would think.

Im now weighing up the pros and cons, im thinking longterm the focus would have better residual value?
It also should have better economy,its certainly big enough for us although not as big as the passat or mondeo ofcourse.

While initially i had more or less decided on the mondeo this mornings test drive has me thinking of going with the better performing and lower tax of the focus.
It just seems to tick more boxes with the mondeo only winning out on space.

More than anything however im hoping Ford will prove more reliable than VW.

Advice appreciated.

Plug

I'd go for the 1.8TCDI here but if I could change my mind on something else it would be the 2 litre TCDI Mondeo. What is your budget? And yeah Ford will be more reliable.

Efioanaes

You see initially i was going to opt for a petrol as im not doing anywhere near the mileage i was but i did notice the difference in performance in a big way, i suppose i could get used to it.

The Mondeo is froma main dealer where as the focus is from the guy i bought the passat off and hes looking after me in fairness.
Both cars are costing 5k approx to change.
I did look at diesel Mondeos but they were approx 2k more, id rather stay under 5k if at all possible.
Thanks for your reply.

shawnee

If you're mileage is under 15k miles per annum, you would probably be better buying a petrol. You will have a better choice of car and probably a chance to get one with lower mileage as most of the diesels have pretty high miles. I had a mondeo and I changed to a focus, very little difference in interior space and easier to park as the visibility is better and they are not as cumbersome as the mondeo.;)

Efioanaes

43k on the Focus TDCi.

EPM

I'd go with the Mondeo for comfort alone. There is a big difference between the two. I'd source a 2 litre Mondeo too. Can be bought cheaper than the 1.6 and are usually a nicer spec too.

-Corkie-

Plug wrote: »

I'd go for the 1.8TCDI here but if I could change my mind on something else it would be the 2 litre TCDI Mondeo. What is your budget? And yeah Ford will be more reliable.

+1 on that. What mileage is on the Passat??

Efioanaes

-Corkie- wrote: »

+1 on that. What mileage is on the Passat??

61,000 miles on the Passat

Would i see much difference in economy between the 1.6 petrol mondeo and 1.8 TDCi Focus?

johnos1984

We have a 1.6 Mondeo.

I always think it handles well but is seriously underpowered, revs lots but goes nowhere. Ours is LX spec also and feels horrid. Also it hasn't been the most reliable with many electrical faults although I seem to be the only one who has had problems on boards.

It also has a DMF before anyone tels you to stay away form diesels because of them

-Corkie-

Efioanaes wrote: »

61,000 miles on the Passat

DMF will probably go soon so you are making a good decison on changing. That would cost another grand. I have a 08 2.0 TDI and it has gave no real problems yet only a A/C compressor which was covered under warranty.

Efioanaes

Excuse my ignorance but DMF?

johnos1984

Efioanaes wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but DMF?

Duel Mass Flywheel, its a component part of the clutch which can fail and be expensive to replace

-Corkie-

Efioanaes wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but DMF?

Basically the Flywheel..

166man

Seriously those 06 and on Passats have serious trouble with those engines especially the injectors, usually once one goes the rest will follow suit! Get rid of it as soon as you can, as a suggestion what about a 06 or 07 petrol passat, possibly the 1.4TSI? Great engine! Don't go near the 1.6 petrol it is slow and will be thirsty.

Good luck keep us posted on that passat!

Efioanaes

Im guessing expensive?

Just to throw a spanner in the works, would a Toyota Avensis be worth considering?
Im seeking reliability after the passat.
I can get an 08 avensis 1.6 petrol for 4k with my own, 30k miles.

Plug

The ones on the 1.6TDCI and the 2.0TDCI are pretty good, I've replaced maybe one one the 1.6 but never any with the 2 litre. The 1.8's are a different ball game altogether.

Efioanaes

The 1.8's are a different ball game altogether.

That doesnt inspire confidence

Is it really so hard to get a reliable car these days?
jaysus i had a 99 avensis and the thing was bomb proof as was the mazda 323f before that.

166man

Efioanaes wrote: »

That doesnt inspire confidence

Is it really so hard to get a reliable car these days?
jaysus i had a 99 avensis and the thing was bomb proof as was the mazda 323f before that.

It is nowadays with all the technology that all these diesels now have their reliability has come down.

If you want a reliable car yes a 1.6 avensis should be bulletproof but I have a feeling that losing the comfort and pace (relatively speaking) of the Passat may be hard to take. The 1.6 is REALLY slow and fuel will be heavy.

Could you try and get some form of Skoda Octavia maybe?

-Corkie-

166man wrote: »

It is nowadays with all the technology that all these diesels now have their reliability has come down.

If you want a reliable car yes a 1.6 avensis should be bulletproof but I have a feeling that losing the comfort and pace (relatively speaking) of the Passat may be hard to take. The 1.6 is REALLY slow and fuel will be heavy.

Could you try and get some form of Skoda Octavia maybe?

True enough and plus one on the 1.6 Passat stay away, the 1.4 TSI is OK. A 1.8 Avensis would be easier on fuel than the 1.6.

Plug

Efioanaes wrote: »

That doesnt inspire confidence

Is it really so hard to get a reliable car these days?
jaysus i had a 99 avensis and the thing was bomb proof as was the mazda 323f before that.

Its not that bad bad but more common than the others. The fords are virtually injector trouble tree as well also the turbos are fairly bullet proof once they are serviced correctly.

Leonard Hofstadter

The 1.8 TDCi is if anything more reliable than the 2.0 TDCi.

I have not driven one but according to anyone who has driven it, it has a very lumpy power delivery compared to the more modern diesel engines.

The 2.0 has more power, and the 2.0 in the Mk4 (current model) has a different engine to the Mk3 (it's the same engine that is in Peugeots, Citroens and countless other makes of car these days), and the evidence so far is that it is not prone to the injector problems that the Mk3 TDCi suffered from.

The Avensis in 1.6 is seriously underpowered, had the misfortune to drive one recently. The 1.8 is not very fast either, though it is usefully quicker than the 1.6 and is worth trying to find, not least because they all come in a much higher spec and have a nicer interior.

VVTis are renowned for burning oil and the bearings in the gearboxes are crap in them - they give trouble quite a bit.

I have not driven a 1.6 Mondeo but I would imagine it is woefully underpowered as on paper its performance is very similar to the 1.6 Avensis.

As regards a DMF, I would not worry about DMFs in a petrol - BMW have been fitting them to petrols for nearly 20 years now and they virtually don't give trouble.

A DMF is designed to dampen out the vibrations from an engine, and it makes the car feel much smoother. A diesel engine is much rougher running than a petrol (the DMF disguises this) and has more torque, so it puts the DMF under far greater stress and that is why DMFs give trouble on diesel engined cars.

If I were the OP, I would try and find an 08 Mk4 2.0 TDCi with a decent spec - most are Ghias and Titaniums so have plenty of gadgets as standard. An Avensis is just not in the same league as other cars out there - better than a Passat no doubt but compared to a Mazda 6 (petrol engined only of course as the diesel is absolutely appalling), Mondeo, Insignia etc it is way behind. As mentioned already, it's not that reliable either.

Efioanaes

captainspeed wrote: »

The 1.8 TDCi is if anything more reliable than the 2.0 TDCi.

I have not driven one but according to anyone who has driven it, it has a very lumpy power delivery compared to the more modern diesel engines.

The 2.0 has more power, and the 2.0 in the Mk4 (current model) has a different engine to the Mk3 (it's the same engine that is in Peugeots, Citroens and countless other makes of car these days), and the evidence so far is that it is not prone to the injector problems that the Mk3 TDCi suffered from.

The Avensis in 1.6 is seriously underpowered, had the misfortune to drive one recently. The 1.8 is not very fast either, though it is usefully quicker than the 1.6 and is worth trying to find, not least because they all come in a much higher spec and have a nicer interior.

VVTis are renowned for burning oil and the bearings in the gearboxes are crap in them - they give trouble quite a bit.

I have not driven a 1.6 Mondeo but I would imagine it is woefully underpowered as on paper its performance is very similar to the 1.6 Avensis.

As regards a DMF, I would not worry about DMFs in a petrol - BMW have been fitting them to petrols for nearly 20 years now and they virtually don't give trouble.

A DMF is designed to dampen out the vibrations from an engine, and it makes the car feel much smoother. A diesel engine is much rougher running than a petrol (the DMF disguises this) and has more torque, so it puts the DMF under far greater stress and that is why DMFs give trouble on diesel engined cars.

If I were the OP, I would try and find an 08 Mk4 2.0 TDCi with a decent spec - most are Ghias and Titaniums so have plenty of gadgets as standard. An Avensis is just not in the same league as other cars out there - better than a Passat no doubt but compared to a Mazda 6 (petrol engined only of course as the diesel is absolutely appalling), Mondeo, Insignia etc it is way behind. As mentioned already, it's not that reliable either.

Thanks for that, we are seriously considering the focus 1.8 tdci at this stage, it should be cheaper to run than the mondeo or avensis plus road tax is about a quarter of what im currently paying on the passat.
How many miles roughly am i looking at a possible DMF issue?
What about timing belt? when will i be expecting to change it?

Stevie Dakota

Just be warned the Focus transmits a lot more road noise into the car than the Mondeo, or your Passat which is far more refined. It's the kind of thing that you won't notice on a test drive but can wear you down on long distances. I have a 2.0TDci 2008 Facelift Focus and just wish it had more sound proofing, otherwise a really great car.

Efioanaes

Quick question, would i be getting the same old grief as the passat if i went with a tdi octavia?

Plug

Efioanaes wrote: »

Quick question, would i be getting the same old grief as the passat if i went with a tdi octavia?

Same cars more or less I think. There are loads of Octavia owners on here but they are so far up there holes they won't tell you the cons of it:p

Efioanaes

Plug wrote: »

Same cars more or less I think. There are loads of Octavia owners on here but they are so far up there holes they won't tell you the cons of it:p

lol

Ive more or less decided to go with the focus tdci,seems the more practical of the bunch. Lowest tax,best fuel consumption while being the best performing and still big enough for our needs,probably depreciate less also.
Thanks once again all.

Leonard Hofstadter

Efioanaes wrote: »

Thanks for that, we are seriously considering the focus 1.8 tdci at this stage, it should be cheaper to run than the mondeo or avensis plus road tax is about a quarter of what im currently paying on the passat.
How many miles roughly am i looking at a possible DMF issue?
What about timing belt? when will i be expecting to change it?

Hard to tell with the DMF; when the car starts rattling as you pull away then you know its on the way out.

People who spend most of the time driving around town and/or having the car running at low revs (below 1500 rpm as diesels are quite rough running and the vibrations get worse at lower revs) will find that it goes earlier. People who try to keep the revs above 1500 rpm and do only a small amount of stop/start driving can get to 230k km before it fails.

I would agree with Stevie Dakota, a Mondeo or similar size will a more comfortable proposition than a Focus as they have more space, and usually are quieter and have better seats. That is not to say the Focus is a bad car (it's a bloody great one IMHO), just that it's not going to be as good on a long journey as something larger. If you're happy with the Focus, then go and get it - they're a great car and will be infinitely more reliable than a Passat:).

Henry Ford III

A new Mondeo is now available with a 115bhp 1.6TDCI engine - the old 1.8TDCI is history.

johnos1984

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A new Mondeo is now available with a 115bhp 1.6TDCI engine - the old 1.8TDCI is history.

Have you driven it?

Henry Ford III

johnos1984 wrote: »

Have you driven it?

The engine yes many times, and it's a good'un - but not in a Mondeo.

Plug

johnos1984 wrote: »

Have you driven it?

I did and its actually not bad. I was surprised.

johnos1984

Plug wrote: »

I did and its actually not bad. I was surprised.

I went to test drive one today but couldn't find my local dealer (I kid you not):D

Plug

johnos1984 wrote: »

I went to test drive one today but couldn't find my local dealer (I kid you not):D

Tut tut, you thinking of buying?

johnos1984

Plug wrote: »

Tut tut, you thinking of buying?

I'm not sure truth be told. I was surprised at the local dealer at home wanting it so badly and I suppose it got me thinking really. Job front is looking very good so I could go for it if I wanted. The thing is I want something nicer to drive during the brief period off the motorway but which won't cost me a fortune.

dr.fuzzenstein

Have an '06 ZETEC Focus CMax 1.8 TDCI, the only one worth considering.
Any 1.4 and even 1.6 petrol will feel weedy in comparison, the 1.8 doesn't have a DPF that can clog up on you and mine's now done 180000 kilometres without a fault.
The CMax 1.8 TDCI is nippy enough, but the regular Focus would be quite nice.
1.8 TDCI ZETEC FTW.