10km races in Dublin

Hanley

Guys... help me out here. I'm starting to push my aerobic capabilities a bit more and finally train some longer low intensity runs.

Anyone know what the 10km race schedule is like around Dublin?! I'd like to actually have something to train for and use as a marker to measure my progress against!

g'em

moved from Fitness - you'll get a much more knowledgeable audience here

Woddle

Really good site for upcoming races.
http://www.runningcalendar.eu/races.php?group,ie

10km in Dun Laoghaire on Aug 1st so gives you a bit of time.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056244923

RayCun

There's an Events subforum with discussion of upcoming events, and a thread that tries to list all of these events.
Plenty of races around 10k distance in there.

Hanley

Sweet… thanks! You guys are way nicer than those fitness forum w@nkers

I see there’s one in Dundrum on July 7th as well, might do that too. I need to figure out all this training by heart rate crap before then. I did 9km in 55 minutes going from the suburbs into town to collect a backpack in my office and was averaging around 154bpm for that distance. I’ve no idea of actual max heart rate, but I’ll test it out this week to see, I was estimating it at around 75%. I’d say that was proably the 5th time I’ve run over 3km in the past 5/6 years, second time I’ve been over 5 in that period so was happy enough with time and was pretty much 100% after it, went and did 13x 5 minute competition style rounds of BJJ and a 90 minute gym session after too.

The discussion’s probably outside of the scope of this thread, but aim for <50 minutes for 10k? And how have you folks found training by heart rate for seeing improvements in aerobic fitness and times?!

EDIT: Grrr... that 'Dundrum' 10k isn't in the REAL Dundrum.

The Davestator

Hanley- a sub 50 10 k time would be good time for your size! . Like you I'm mainly a gym head but during summer, I venture outside and do some races.

menoscemo

Hanley, if you do the race in Dunlaoghaire there is talk of a beers afterwards. You can finally see how the A/R/T folks can hold their licqour better than those fitness wimps :pac:

As for training, how many days a week are you planning on running?
The general advice would be one day 'fast' (intervals or hill sprints) where you push your Max HR for short burts. A couple of easy runs @ 70-80% max HR and a longer run at the weekend.

If you wear your HRM for a hill sprint session you should get a decent idea of what your Max HR is.

Hanley

The Davestator wrote: »

Hanley- a sub 50 10 k time would be good time for your size! . Like you I'm mainly a gym head but during summer, I venture outside and do some races.

Ha I'm down to 89kg at 5'10 now dude... not so heavy anymore. Should be closer to 86kg during the summer too if all goes to plan, so I've no real excuse.

Any advice or reading from someone on how to estimate where your aerobic/anaerobic threshold lies would be welcome too!!

Hanley

menoscemo wrote: »

Hanley, if you do the race in Dunlaoghaire there is talk of a beers afterwards. You can finally see how the A/R/T folks can hold their licqour better than those fitness wimps :pac:

So now I’ve two things to train for!!

As for training, how many days a week are you planning on running?

Just 2x because I’m training BJJ 4x per week (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat), muay thai 1-2x (Tue, Thur) and try to get at least 1 lifting session in per week. Probably a long slow run on Saturday morning, Sunday can be the ‘fast’ day and I might get a slow one in on Thursday too.

I tend to do 2-4x 10-15 minute fairly high intensity conditioning blocks after BJJ anyway, so there is an element of anaerobic training there too. Not sure how well it transfers across to running tho!

The general advice would be one day 'fast' (intervals or hill sprints) where you push your Max HR for short burts. A couple of easy runs @ 70-80% max HR and a longer run at the weekend.

Hmmm ok… and in the context of the time I have as above…? Maybe 2x slow runs, 1x ‘fast’ one?

I prefer hills to flat intervals because as I’m quite heavy and powerful (and primarily because my mechanics are sh*t…) - I don’t slow down very well!! I’ve a decent 70m hill to work with, what would you suggest doing on that?!

If you wear your HRM for a hill sprint session you should get a decent idea of what your Max HR is.

Cool - I’ll do that. Thanks!

the drifter

/goes to root out thread where Hanley gave me abuse for running....

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

Sweet… thanks! You guys are way nicer than those fitness forum w@nkers

the drifter wrote: »

/goes to root out thread where Hanley gave me abuse for running....

menoscemo

Hanley wrote: »

Hmmm ok… and in the context of the time I have as above…? Maybe 2x slow runs, 1x ‘fast’ one?

I prefer hills to flat intervals because as I’m quite heavy and powerful (and primarily because my mechanics are sh*t…) - I don’t slow down very well!! I’ve a decent 70m hill to work with, what would you suggest doing on that?!

Two slow (of which one is longer) + 1 fast would be grand.
Normally the hill intervals would be a bit longer than 70m ( a typical 10k VO2 max session would be 400m reps). So maybe extend it a bit by running pretty hard for 300m before hitting the hill? Jog back down to the start and repeat.

Start by doing a number of repeats that you are comfortable with now and add one or two every week up to about 10-12.

Also check out Hal higdons 10k training plans to get an idea of structure:

Nwm2

Hanley wrote: »

The discussion’s probably outside of the scope of this thread, but aim for <50 minutes for 10k? And how have you folks found training by heart rate for seeing improvements in aerobic fitness and times?!

A lot of people don't train by heart rate, and only look at it as a secondary metric if at all.

Instead they train by pace only - for example I do this based off my most recent 5k or 10k race time (or test time).

So, if my pace for 10k is an average of 4.00min/km, long slow runs (>1hr)will be around 5.00min/km, a 'tempo' run (40min-1hr) will be around 4:10min/km, and speed intervals (1-2km) will be around 3:45 min/km with a recovery jog in between.

The paces can be calculated here, but then need to be put into a plan. If you are running 3x per week, maybe do 1 of each of the above sessions. But start with a few weeks of short, easy jogging to build up.

As to what pace to input into the calculator, only put in what you can currently achieve, not what your long term goal pace is. Maybe the first thing to do is a 5k time trial.


Watch the hill intervals (especially the downhills) as they are a killer for causing knee injuries, especially if you don't have much of a running base. Plus you need the strong knees to force your way out of those kneebars.;)

Michael 09

Turn coat.

Hanley

menoscemo wrote: »

Two slow (of which one is longer) + 1 fast would be grand.

What sort of distance is normally recommended for the ‘long’ runs?

Normally the hill intervals would be a bit longer than 70m ( a typical 10k VO2 max session would be 400m reps). So maybe extend it a bit by running pretty hard for 300m before hitting the hill? Jog back down to the start and repeat.

Start by doing a number of repeats that you are comfortable with now and add one or two every week up to about 10-12.

I’ve a hill around that distance I could work off actually - the swords road from Griffith avenue to Collins ave for those that know it?

Are the intervals all out? Like 100% effort with a slow jog back?

Also check out Hal higdons 10k training plans to get an idea of structure:

Will do 

Nwm2 wrote: »

A lot of people don't train by heart rate, and only look at it as a secondary metric if at all.

Instead they train by pace only - for example I do this based off my most recent 5k or 10k race time (or test time).

So, if my pace for 10k is an average of 4.00min/km, long slow runs (>1hr)will be around 5.00min/km, a 'tempo' run (40min-1hr) will be around 4:10min/km, and speed intervals (1-2km) will be around 3:45 min/km with a recovery jog in between.

The paces can be calculated here, but then need to be put into a plan. If you are running 3x per week, maybe do 1 of each of the above sessions. But start with a few weeks of short, easy jogging to build up.

Hmm ok… so like the long slow pace is around +20% of your ‘race’ pace, tempo runs are done pretty much at race pace for the entire duration and last around the same length of time as a race, and intervals are done faster than race pace with a slow pace enough to facilitate recovery in between?

What sort of on/off distances are used in the interval runs, like 1-2km on, 1-2km off?

RE: building up to it - if I can pull a comfortable 10km in 60 minutes would I be ready?

As to what pace to input into the calculator, only put in what you can currently achieve, not what your long term goal pace is. Maybe the first thing to do is a 5k time trial.


Watch the hill intervals (especially the downhills) as they are a killer for causing knee injuries, especially if you don't have much of a running base. Plus you need the strong knees to force your way out of those kneebars.;)

Cool beans, I’ll do a moderately hard 5km at some point in the next 2 weeks and see what I can do. Is it best to test on as flat a route as possible?

menoscemo

Hanley wrote: »

What sort of distance is normally recommended for the ‘long’ runs?

Depends on your level of running ability. If 'Completing' the 10k in a run is not an issue, there is no harm in covering the distance+ in your LSR's (Long Slow runs). If making 10k is an issue then build up to the distance.

Hanley wrote: »

I’ve a hill around that distance I could work off actually - the swords road from Griffith avenue to Collins ave for those that know it?

Are the intervals all out? Like 100% effort with a slow jog back?

Don't know the hill...if you do the first flat out you'll likely not recover quick enough for the others. Try to start out doing them at a speed you can maintain throughout your intervals. You will learn this with experience...you should be feeling like you are getting close to 100% effort by the last few, and give the last one socks (this is where you are likely to reach close to your max HR by the way)

Hanley wrote: »

Will do 

The plans should give you a decent guide for distances of long runs etc. based on your fitness/training experience i'd choose at least intermediate if I were you given that you are already covering 9k handy enough.

Nwm2

Hanley wrote: »

Hmm ok… so like the long slow pace is around +20% of your ‘race’ pace, tempo runs are done pretty much at race pace for the entire duration and last around the same length of time as a race, and intervals are done faster than race pace with a slow pace enough to facilitate recovery in between?

The tempo runs are less than race pace - this is important! Recovery from an all-out 10k is in the order of several days (for me anyway), but you get most of the benefit with much quicker recovery (and easier physically/mentally) if you are maybe 10sec/km slower. Doesn't sound like much, but by 6-7k in it makes a big difference.

Hanley wrote: »

What sort of on/off distances are used in the interval runs, like 1-2km on, 1-2km off?

These intervals are 'speed' intervals (a faster version will be 'sprint' intervals). Typically starting at 800m long going up to 1600-2000m, with 3-5 min recovery jogs.

Hanley wrote: »

RE: building up to it - if I can pull a comfortable 10km in 60 minutes would I be ready?

It's more miles under your belt, than speed. Give it a few weeks.

Hanley wrote: »

Cool beans, I’ll do a moderately hard 5km at some point in the next 2 weeks and see what I can do. Is it best to test on as flat a route as possible?

Doesn't need to be pool table flat, but somewhere not too hilly that is convenient to test a few times over the next few months.

zico10

Hanley wrote: »

I’ve a hill around that distance I could work off actually - the swords road from Griffith avenue to Collins ave for those that know it?

I really don't think that would be steep enough, it certainly wouldn't need a slow jog all the way back to recover from.
Besides footpath is too narrow and unless you're running at two in the morning you are very likely to encounter pedestrians.
Seeing as you're in Dublin, if you can make it to the Phoenix Park, the Khyber Road would be perfect.

Hanley wrote: »

Cool beans, I’ll do a moderately hard 5km at some point in the next 2 weeks and see what I can do. Is it best to test on as flat a route as possible?

Plenty of places in Park as well for a 5km route.

Hanley

menoscemo wrote: »

Depends on your level of running ability. If 'Completing' the 10k in a run is not an issue, there is no harm in covering the distance+ in your LSR's (Long Slow runs). If making 10k is an issue then build up to the distance.

9k was a piece of cake... ran it at an easy pace and wasn't out of breath at all by the end of it. I did notice my calves and feet starting to get sore around the 8/8.5km mark, but nothing that left residual soreness the next day.

Don't know the hill...if you do the first flat out you'll likely not recover quick enough for the others. Try to start out doing them at a speed you can maintain throughout your intervals. You will learn this with experience...you should be feeling like you are getting close to 100% effort by the last few, and give the last one socks (this is where you are likely to reach close to your max HR by the way)

Looks like the hill's no good anyway and I got a better suggestion below

The plans should give you a decent guide for distances of long runs etc. based on your fitness/training experience i'd choose at least intermediate if I were you given that you are already covering 9k handy enough.

Cool, I'll have a look.

Anyone else got input as to what level I should pick?

Hanley

Nwm2 wrote: »

The tempo runs are less than race pace - this is important! Recovery from an all-out 10k is in the order of several days (for me anyway), but you get most of the benefit with much quicker recovery (and easier physically/mentally) if you are maybe 10sec/km slower. Doesn't sound like much, but by 6-7k in it makes a big difference.


These intervals are 'speed' intervals (a faster version will be 'sprint' intervals). Typically starting at 800m long going up to 1600-2000m, with 3-5 min recovery jogs.

It's more miles under your belt, than speed. Give it a few weeks.

Doesn't need to be pool table flat, but somewhere not too hilly that is convenient to test a few times over the next few months.

All noted - thanks

Hanley

zico10 wrote: »

I really don't think that would be steep enough, it certainly wouldn't need a slow jog all the way back to recover from.
Besides footpath is too narrow and unless you're running at two in the morning you are very likely to encounter pedestrians.
Seeing as you're in Dublin, if you can make it to the Phoenix Park, the Khyber Road would be perfect.

Plenty of places in Park as well for a 5km route.

Alright... I'll probably do that so. And keep my LSRs a bit more local since I don't have huge amounts of time to spare!! I've a nice 2km loop around a part with some level changes near me so I'll probably do a bit there. Running from home to the bull wall is about 5km too, so that's a nice 10k loop

AntiVirus

If you have a smartphone you can download apps for free that will use the phones gps to record and time your runs. Handy for keeping a log of how your training is coming along. You can look at your runs online later and analyse the data

www.endomondo.com
www.sportypal.com
www.smartrunner.com

These are just a few...

RacoonQueen

Hanley starting a thread about running. This has to go in the boards hall of fame surely? :pac:

Hanley

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Hanley starting a thread about running. This has to go in the boards hall of shame surely? :pac:

FYP.

Hanley

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Hanley starting a thread about running. This has to go in the boards hall of fame surely? :pac:

Also, you can expect a whole host of newbies coming to the forum when they see in my training log that it's what I'm doing

Hanley

Lolz it’s always the same… Got an email today in work - they’re tryna get us to do a triathlon for charity. Sprint or Olympic distance, September 3rd. Very tempted to give this a go for the craic.

How long does it normally take to complete a sprint distance triathlon for a beginner?

My problems are - I’m not a stong swimmer. I’ve done like 60 lengths of a 25m pool in an hour about a 1.5 years ago - but that was my last exposure to swimming, and I’ve nowhere to really swim now anyway since Total Fitness closed. If there was a pool on the northside or city centre (Dublin) where I could get a few lessons and a swim in 1x per week I’d consider it.

Nwm2

Hanley wrote: »

Lolz it’s always the same… Got an email today in work - they’re tryna get us to do a triathlon for charity. Sprint or Olympic distance, September 3rd. Very tempted to give this a go for the craic.

How long does it normally take to complete a sprint distance triathlon for a beginner?

My problems are - I’m not a stong swimmer. I’ve done like 60 lengths of a 25m pool in an hour about a 1.5 years ago - but that was my last exposure to swimming, and I’ve nowhere to really swim now anyway since Total Fitness closed. If there was a pool on the northside or city centre (Dublin) where I could get a few lessons and a swim in 1x per week I’d consider it.

Here is my story, posted elsewhere;

38 year old male, with 20 years of martial arts training and teaching, plus soccer and gym work. Little in the way of swim/bike/run apart from the 5-a-side soccer. Came back from summer holidays in 2009 all out of shape and decided to give myself a goal to get in shape. Entered a sprint triathlon with 6 weeks to go.

Aim was merely to complete it, not to place well. Key issue was the swim - I managed 50m the first pool session, gradually built up to a slow 1400m distance. For the cycle, I trained on a mountain bike, and borrowed a road bike from a friend the week before the event. My swim was very slow (bottom 15%), but due to relatively strong bike and run I came about halfway down the list. Took about 90 mins altogether.

Careful Hanley, it's expensive and addictive. I gave up MA entirely last year to just do triathlon.

Hanley

Nwm2 wrote: »

Here is my story, posted elsewhere;

38 year old male, with 20 years of martial arts training and teaching, plus soccer and gym work. Little in the way of swim/bike/run apart from the 5-a-side soccer. Came back from summer holidays in 2009 all out of shape and decided to give myself a goal to get in shape. Entered a sprint triathlon with 6 weeks to go.

Aim was merely to complete it, not to place well. Key issue was the swim - I managed 50m the first pool session, gradually built up to a slow 1400m distance. For the cycle, I trained on a mountain bike, and borrowed a road bike from a friend the week before the event. My swim was very slow (bottom 15%), but due to relatively strong bike and run I came about halfway down the list. Took about 90 mins altogether.

Careful Hanley, it's expensive and addictive. I gave up MA entirely last year to just do triathlon.

So yah… it’s doable then?! 50m to 1,400m swimming in 6 weeks, WTF did you do?!

What sorta times did you put in for each leg, do you remember?

Nice story tho, glad to see it’s something I should be able to do. Can’t see myself hanging up my gi for it tho. I’ve only started BJJ in the last 6 months and it’s given me a new lease of life. I got so bored and burned out with powerlifting that I was barely training anymore!!

metamorphosis

I keep thinking this thread is not real.

Dear God.

Hanley

metamorphosis wrote: »

I keep thinking this thread is not real.

Dear God.

Does it scare you that I’m building myself into a super human? Is that it?

I’ll be stronger than almost anyone I come across, able to kick the sh!t out of most, go for longer and harder, all while eating more chocolate? No where will you be safe, I can hunt you down over long or short distances on land or at sea. Does that scare you? It should.

Nwm2

Hanley wrote: »

So yah… it’s doable then?! 50m to 1,400m swimming in 6 weeks, WTF did you do?!

What sorta times did you put in for each leg, do you remember?

Nice story tho, glad to see it’s something I should be able to do. Can’t see myself hanging up my gi for it tho. I’ve only started BJJ in the last 6 months and it’s given me a new lease of life. I got so bored and burned out with powerlifting that I was barely training anymore!!

#1 thing I did was stop trying to breathe every 3 strokes, and just breathe every second stroke (always to my right). Trying to breathe every 3rd meant I was too quickly starved of oxygen. Not ideal, but I was under a time deadline so had to take shortcuts. After that, it was just getting the muscular endurance up. Swam 30-45 mins 4-5 times per week. Kept adding 50-100m every session.

Times were about 21 min (swim), 45 min (bike), 22 min (run). Hilly bike course, flat run course. Swim was a very choppy ocean swim.