I've been writing a book lately....

Eggy Baby!

Hi there!

I've been writing a book for the last year, which for the most part has been Science Fiction, but occasionally it strays into War and less occasionally into Satire and Epic. I would regard myself as a very progressive writer: in my book, I make parallels between vast epics such as the Aeneid with ordinary everyday things- the politicians being the aloof Gods and the soldiers experiencing the harrowing dirt and grit on the battlefield. It is a strangely unorthodox book: themes are expressed through odd motifs and symbols etc. and my characters are either very phlegmatic or eccentric.

The main reason why I am posting is because I am afraid!

I am afraid that (as I intend to get this book published) publishers will continually reject it and it will never be bound and shelved and sold and people will never read what I have written for them and this unique creation of mine will fade into obscurity. My eccentricity as a writer, I fear, may be repulsive to major publishers, who I am worried may be too mainstream. I would just love for my book to have the chance to strike a nerve and be recognised. I don't want fame or money or houses; all I want is for my novel to be realised.

My characters are not human: they are beings of my own creation with which I use to present as a stark allegory for humans and our own convictions. They are subject to greed, power, violence, revenge, pain, emotion, just like us. My book (intentionally) shifts between different genres. Sometimes it intricately describes the knots in a spaceships hull, but other times it details War and Death and other terrible things, universal things. And although the characters are not Human, they are human...

I am wondering if people will understand it, if publishers will understand it. I'm halfway through it, and I've been trying to use it to make a vast political and philosophical statement which I want people to read but wrapped up in this mini-universe of my own creation, of aliens and empires and far-flung planets and wars. I treasure my imagination and I hope that it may be acknowledged. But will publishers understand my unorthodox approach to writing and life and politics et al?

But thats all I can really say..it is a massive and complex novel which I am half done ATM. Sorry if I was a little long-winded but I kinda just realised how long the bit that I wrote was lol...plus its a bit late and I harp on a lot when its late; I'm putting the book on the backburner lately too because I'm doing my Leaving Cert ATM, but thanks for your time anyway!

Eggy.

Antilles

It sounds like a tough sell for a first time novel. I'd hold off submitting the world changing, genre subverting and redefining stuff until you're an established writer. At that point you can drop this on your publishers desk and say "My work sells. Publish this book."

Eggy Baby!

That's a good point actually...I've written a lot so I'd reckon I'm quite experienced at writing by this stage but this IS my first REAL attempt at a novel..I might finish it, archive the foo and then write some other stuff...I tend to have a lot of ideas floating about at all times these days.. thanks!

Any other feedback too would be appreciated!

Antilles

Joyce published Dubliners in 1914. It's easy to read but really well written so it sold. Every book he wrote after that was a little bit more experimental, until twenty-five years later he was able to break out the big guns and submit Finnegans Wake.

Eggy Baby!

Define "well written"; as in really good characters, plot, descriptions or what?
Never actually read the Dubliners but laughed my way through Ulysses...what a crazy book! He would start to describe an old woman's face and then compare it to her...yano..

I'm not experimental with language; most of my vocabulary is just ordinary but I use ordinary vocabulary to describe profound sweeping scenes and I personally think it works better than waffling on and on about such things...a spade is a spade..

I'd actually compare my novel to Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World in terms of style as my book is quite easy to read but contains complicated and difficult themes and messages. I'm worried that publishers or even readers mightn't comprehend what I'm trying to say here; it might just blow over them..

niceview

If you are familiar with Strunk and Whyte's book on the English language there is piece of advice which may be relevant to you. The point basically says that writers at the beginning of their career (or writing life) tend to try to reinvent the wheel and aim to revolutionize their field. But this rarely happens. They are speaking more so of language rather than content, but I feel the point holds through.

You mentioned connecting with readers through publication, but you have also mentioned (a couple of times) being worried they won't get what you are trying to say. If your aim is to get a message across, why not make it so easy that it will reach many and make an impact?It's that old question about a sound a tree makes in an empty forest.

Fair play for writing a book during your leaving! Best of luck with both of them.

Eggy Baby!

Hi and thanks for the support!

But what I was more trying to ask is whether or not the publisher will understand what I am trying to say as profound, not the reader. People will read what they wish to read but publishers will publish what they wish to publish. And if publishers decide not to publish what I have written, people will not be able to read it, that's a fact. I hate how commercial literature has become.. the industry is becoming awash with some pretty bland writing (I reckon I'm beginning to sound a bit elitist here ), and I'm sure that there are amazing and charismatic writers out there who have faced incessant rejection from publishers because their works are not money-making machines.

CdeP

Do you think it would be possible to dilute the "eccentricity" of your book without lessening the profundity of the statement you're trying to make? Or can one simply not exist without the other?

Also, would I be right in saying you did the modern fairy tale question for Paper One on Wednesday? I'd be interested to see how that read...

Eggy Baby!

Hmmm...I use the eccentricity in a tongue-in-cheek way to contrast with how serious, pessimistic and dark the book's subject matter is; in a unique way I suppose. I tend to use a lot of unusual contrasts like that in the book itself. I lampoon humanity using these mockeries of people, these alien things that are nonetheless like us, but in our extremes, and I use the politics side of the novel to lampoon our own politics - doublespeak and whatnot. Nevertheless, I believe the book would be very shallow without the eccentricity because the profundity would lose its impact. Contrast tends to elevate things.

But lol no I didn't do the modern fairytale; did the 24 hours in the life of a city because I was absolutely STUMPED by those composition titles.."Mystery"? Damn them! I did contemplate doing the modern fairytale but I wanted a quick and easy way out due to time constraints.

CdeP

Yeah it was a very random theme. I resolved at the start of the year to avoid the short story question because the marking seemed so much more subjective than for the newspaper article or the speech. Ended up doing the impact of technology on young people question which went ok.

Anyway, you seem confident (Virgil! Orwell! Huxley!) which I think is just as important as writing ability. Well nearly.

Good luck with the book.

And the Leaving...

FewFew

Don't change your book in order to make it sell.

If you want to write a book for the purposing of selling loads then go for some chick lit or something. This book is your little eggy baby, only change it if the advice you receive makes sense to you and genuinely improves the book.

Antilles is right, go for an easier sell if you think this book won't sell, or make satelite projects around it. I'm in the process of writing a free novel and series of free short stories to launch my trilogy (which I'll charge for.) and my content doesn't sound half as difficult to embrace as yours.

Eggy Baby!

That's a good idea because I was thinking of writing short anecdotes and epistolaries to build up the world of the book itself...not sure whether or not I'd include them in the book and the end itself or make them separate from it.

It's difficult to change the way it is though...I was reading it yesterday and it's some pretty interwoven stuff; if I pulled out some sort of thread or theme or motif, other stuff wouldn't really make sense...hmmm I'll have to start properly getting back to writing it full time after the LC, which is flying by atm

EileenG

Sometimes it helps if you start with the pitch and the synopsis, and see what bits you find are essential when you are giving someone the postcard version of your story. Then you can strengthen those bits in your novel, and perhaps reduce some of the other stuff.

You can do a lot of rule bending, but one essential is a strong story. It doesn't matter how well you've handled theme and motif and philosophy, if there isn't a story which will make readers turn the page, you won't sell it.

Eggy Baby!

EileenG wrote: »

Sometimes it helps if you start with the pitch and the synopsis, and see what bits you find are essential when you are giving someone the postcard version of your story. Then you can strengthen those bits in your novel, and perhaps reduce some of the other stuff.

You can do a lot of rule bending, but one essential is a strong story. It doesn't matter how well you've handled theme and motif and philosophy, if there isn't a story which will make readers turn the page, you won't sell it.

But I made the story simple as to emulate myth and legend, and it describes a great journey against the backdrop of monumental change and suffering..the hidden things define the story; it is my tribute to the Aeneid and all the Homeric works- the story has to be basic, it is in every epic or tribute to one.

I don't particularly want sales, tbh, I want recognition and for people to be enlightened and close the book with a new perspective on things. I love themes and motifs and other more cryptic elements of literature or poetry- whenever I watch a great film, all I can think about are all the hidden things at work behind the scenes and great books are not necessarily regarded for their readability.

Plus I'm halfway through it anyway, so I already have the pitch and synopsis I suppose

FewFew

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

But I made the story simple as to emulate myth and legend, and it describes a great journey against the backdrop of monumental change and suffering..the hidden things define the story; it is my tribute to the Aeneid and all the Homeric works- the story has to be basic, it is in every epic or tribute to one.

I don't particularly want sales, tbh, I want recognition and for people to be enlightened and close the book with a new perspective on things. I love themes and motifs and other more cryptic elements of literature or poetry- whenever I watch a great film, all I can think about are all the hidden things at work behind the scenes and great books are not necessarily regarded for their readability.

Plus I'm halfway through it anyway, so I already have the pitch and synopsis I suppose

Sounds like you know your own mind on this one. I'd say publishers be damned in that case and just make something you believe in.

Romand

I think fantasy/sci-fi epics are a hard sell at the best of times. Most publishers tend to stay clear of them, especially if it's coming from a first time author. You just have to be pragmatic about the mainstream publishing process. They see first time authors as a risk, and sci-fi epics are also a risk. Out of interest, what's the word count?

Have you considered self-publishing it on kindle? That way you wont have to compromise on the content.

Eggy Baby!

Romand wrote: »

I think fantasy/sci-fi epics are a hard sell at the best of times. Most publishers tend to stay clear of them, especially if it's coming from a first time author. You just have to be pragmatic about the mainstream publishing process. They see first time authors as a risk, and sci-fi epics are also a risk. Out of interest, what's the word count?

Have you considered self-publishing it on kindle? That way you wont have to compromise on the content.

The word count is currently 65,988 and I'm about a third or a quarter of the way through it. I intend to write an appendix on the fictional universe at the back and a series of social-satirical anecdotes regarding said world.

Romand

Hope it goes well for you, Eggy. I wrote something similar a few years ago. I never got it published but I'm thinking of putting a few extracts of it on my blog soon. They're immense fun to work on.

Eggy Baby!

Did you try to get to get it published, or did you never get to it?

Romand

To be honest, I never tried to get it published. It was a fantasy trilogy, each book was about 100,000 words. I felt that the chances of finding a publisher for it were too slim so I shelved it. I thought it would better to get established as an author first before trying to get something like this published.
I signed a contract recently so perhaps I'll revisit this trilogy in the years to come.

http://ian-somers.blogspot.com/

Eggy Baby!

Hey guys! Here's a piece from the first draft of my book, which I'm currently working on. It is 1,282 words of Chapter 1 of Part 3 and it's when the main character, called Gorks (he is of an interplanetary imperial race called the Crauls and an experienced soldier), arrives on the planet where most of the story takes place, a wild and unusual place called Versyria. Remember that this is unedited, early stuff!:

Stepping off the plane, Gorks slung his pack down on the baking asphalt and wiped his brow as the new arrivals streamed by him, some sighing, others whooping, many marvelling at the scenery. Gorks looked right, down the grey stripe, up which a segmented white line darted, and through the swaying air he could see mountains, so far away they seemed miniature, hidden behind a haze of sorts. When his head rolled right outside of his control, a tall mountain made his heart leap at how close it was, and he betook himself to admiring it. It loomed up far above, a natural edifice, struck with patches on grey, like the elbow of a vast, venerable god bursting through the mossy veil of the world in the throes of sleep. From above, it seemed only a crease, but on the ground, it watched them providently.

With a heavy breath, Gorks slowly acclimatised himself. It was strange being on another planet. He found it hard to breathe; it came out in pained rasps like that of a dying animal. And he even felt slightly dizzy. Perhaps, he thought, he was dizzy because the planet turned differently, or maybe because of the height of the mountain, he did not know. Versyria itself felt similar to home. Temperate to some extent, but this was a hot day by its standards; the air was very fresh when he became used to it and it was a delight even to breathe it in when his lungs had expanded and filled with blissful unpolluted oxygen. Maybe it was because of all the trees? Gorks looked ahead of him, past all the Crauls who were now at rest, sitting around, lying around, standing around, and he saw a slope staked with coniferous trees that grew fat and wild.

Far away, very far, over their rustling needles he could just make out tall, blocky apartment buildings that lay on the outskirts of Versyriil, and a duo of red-and-white tipped smokestacks towered over them, like extinct volcanoes. The rest of the city was clouded in smog and so he could not pick out any more structures. Gorks’ lolled his head on his stiff neck, both to loosen it and to look skywards. What a beautiful blue sky! Gorks smiled with his squinting face from horizon to cloudless horizon.

Curiosity took the better of him and he looked back at the plane, acute-edged and tinted green, at the emblems on its side, at the dying engines and then he glanced towards the front end and saw the pilot talking to someone, hat under his armpit and using a white handkerchief to dab his forehead with his free hand. Many more planes were lined along the edge of the runway. The runway was quite short, Gorks observed tiredly.

Between the planes waltzed four armed Versyrians loyal to Vazdiko in a group. They all had unrestrained and manic looks about them, and so Gorks stayed where he was. Gorks did not trust Versyrians, like a knackers word or a Lemzirs grin. He unbuttoned the top button of his loose shirt that was patched with sweat. The plane had been hot and stuffy. Gorks forgave the Air Corps for that: they weren’t meant to be charter flights, but he shook his shoulders uncomfortably and watched the Versyrians warily again. Odd things, he thought, as one started gesturing at the Crauls and laughing to the others. Bipedal wolves. Long snout, sharp teeth, tall, bow-legged, hairy, wild eyes. Gorks had rarely seen them, only at home occasionally. He had seen them on a few building sites. Hard workers. Good workers. They certainly had the build for that sort of thing, anyway, he thought, as one of them stood there ogling the new arrivals with his rifle dangling from him on a strap like he didn’t know it was there.

Several Crauls had ventured lazily down to the trees and were now flinging pine cones up the runway and howling in delight at the sounds they made as they skittered up it. Looking at this, Gorks sighed and doubted evolution. As his eyes followed a bounding cone up the runway followed by a yowl as it came to an abrupt halt in the grass, false water on the grey surface winked at him seductively and he longed for what it strived to be. He noticed a worn road disappearing into the forest ahead, and he made a quick head count. 5....10....15....20. Gorks calculated that they would all fit in a Polesh-made Lightning off-road truck. There was a misnomer if there ever was one, Gorks mulled bitterly. Thoughts sprung into his skull of how they swirled in the mud at Kartak during his time there. He strongly remembered filthy, retching Crauls crawling out of capsized Lightning trucks at the side of the road whilst the omnipotent weather pissed on their heads. He quickly banished the memory, because even though it were an old one, it still made him feel as disappointed in the Army as it did at the moment. A decent suspension was virtually absent in the things. Who was sitting beside him that day? Sadyek was, he remembered. Gorks wondered where he was now. It was funny how you toiled and fought beside people, did things for them that you wouldn’t do for any ordinary stranger, and then you just drifted out of contact altogether. As his thoughts were growing sad, Gorks beheld the nature once more and snorted in the pure air as though he was unworthy to breathe it, and this renewed him.

He pricked his ears at a sound slowly prioritising itself over the prating of the Crauls; an ominous humming. The natter died down in an instant. Several Crauls stood and looped their duffel bags around their shoulders. Others just looked around in confusion and clung onto their packs protectively. The hum became accompanied by the crackling of branches and the dusty wheeze of a rusting suspension. With a relieved thud, the last branch whacked the obnoxious face of a lorry bursting from the forest up the beaten road, and the thing seemed to sway from side to side in indignation, like a bull shaking itself of irritating flies.

Gorks watched the driver twirl the wheel with a single hand through the windscreen stained with dried and muddy water along the edges. A wiper angled off to the side stubbornly. Something croaked deep inside the belly of the truck as it went up the runway, turned back and careened down again at such a speed it seemed to be taking off, but it shrieked to a halt beside the group of Crauls. Now all the Crauls were mobilising. The first few had hurled their bags into the back and had clambered up, and the others followed. “All aboard, all aboard!” the driver yelled hoarsely out the window he had wound down. “I swear to get ye closer to the capital before she falls apart!” the Craul flopped his arm out the window and thumped the door in a symbol of possession.

Gorks shouldered his bag and strolled over to the truck. He was so tired, his legs moved painstakingly yet independently. No amount of fresh air could make him feel awake. With a great sigh of both truck and Craul, Gorks gripped the rail and hauled his form up. No others were behind. He was at the edge, looking down at his feet panting. Gorks dragged his arm down through fatigue, and with great effort, he pulled up the heavy tailgate. He could rest. The Craul felt the familiar hard, wooden seats arching from his backside to his shoulders and he was blissful.

Sorry for the long segment but feedback would be appreciated! Also I was reading this earlier and I've noticed its a weird writing style in comparison to a large portion of the book; I try to use an unusual style to reflect the surroundings and the situations of the character, it's almost mythical, this whole Part of the book, as his arrival in Versyria is profound. Note that this is actually one paragraph, but it's a big book so at the behest of Eileen I have sorted it into more readable paragraphs. Also! Vazdiko is the capital of the Crauls, which I use as a metonym for the Craul government, and Versyriil is the capital of Versyria.

EileenG

Could I ask you to repost it with paragraphs? With the best will in the world, as soon as I see a solid block of text like that, I feel the urge to sort socks instead.

SheFiend

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

if publishers decide not to publish what I have written, people will not be able to read it, that's a fact.

I know nothing about the publishing industry, but it strikes me that YOU seem to be considering preventing your book being published, for fear that the publishers would. To paraphrase;

If you decide not to approach a publisher, people will not be able to read it.

Go for it! If you get knocked, you can persevere and keep trying. Doing nothing is often worse than doing the wrong thing. At least give it a chance. You will never predict what may happen.

Best of luck!

EileenG

Was this an introduction to this world and its inhabitants, or have we meet these creatures before? If it's an introduction, I'd like an idea of what they look like early on, and what the differences are between the C and the V aliens.

There are a few contradictions, where one minute he can barely breath, the next he's blissful from the wonderful air.

If he has just arrived, how does he know that the dancing Vs are loyal to whathisname?

I found the writing style a little difficult. Sentences seemed to trail on past their natural stopping point, and I occasionally had to reread sentences to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Eggy Baby!

- This is an introduction to this world and its inhabitants. The Cs are from a different planet than the Vs but in the prologue I describe what the Cs are like physically and what their world is like to make the reader more familiar with them. Also their motives are made clear for their invasion of the V planet in that same prologue. So basically the reader can establish that the Vs look nothing like the Cs. I didn't post the introduction as it is a pretty intense amount of words from it to this bit

- As it is already established earlier and will be established later that the main character is a pretty prolific soldier who has fought on several different planets in the service of the Craul Army. I could change that contradiction that you mentioned, or I could just write it off as his acclimatisation being quick as he has been to so many distant planets and doesn't find it hard to get used to another one.

- He knows, or rather, presumes that they are loyal because they are armed and present on a likely Craul-controlled airstrip. Plus, they are not attacking the Crauls (note that Vazdiko is where the Craul government is located) as if they were, they would be regarded as insurgents and not loyal to Craul (i.e Vazdiko, a metonym for the Craul Empire) and these insurgents and their resistance movement are greater explained throughout the story and appear here and there.

- Later on, I slowly changed my writing style without really noticing it to a more readable and mainstream-like style which is also a very economic style, using very little words. It is also pretty colloquial and realistic for the situations that the characters are in. I have two options: either to change the writing style at the beginning, which is sometimes difficult to read, or I could leave it like that and let it slowly and naturally degenerate from the topsy-turvy and traditional style of the beginning, in which I emulated Greek and Roman epic writers or orators such as Cicero, to the more common and contemporary style later on to reflect how the mission of the characters has lost its "mythology" and romanticism, and is just a grind which they grudgingly deal with.

Thanks a million for the feedback and I hope your book does great Eileen!

:pac:

EileenG

If this was my book, I'd go back and rewrite the beginning to your MC's established voice. You'll give a stronger sense of your soldiers's personality if your writing style reflects his voice.

Also, it has to be said, I'm a lazy reader. If I picked up a book, and the prologue looked like hard work, I'd probably put it back. I've undoubtedly missed some great books doing this, but I suspect I'm not the only person who reads a page and decides if I'm going to buy or not.

Eggy Baby!

Thanks for the advice but the prologue is actually set after the end of the book and by that stage the personality of the character has changed. Secondly the second part of the book focuses on a different character who is the Craul leader and I'm pretty proud of that part as it gives a good insight into the Crauls and their motives. The style of the book in the prologue is actually pretty cynical and pessimistic already to reflect the disposition of the main character, as he is back from his time in Versyria and has seen a lot of things by that stage.

Kinski

Struggled through it. As Eileen has noted, there are some badly structured sentences.

Throwing in words like "betook" does not give your prose weight, except of the leaden variety.

Many redundant words, particularly with adverbs and adjectives, e.g. "strongly remembered."

Also, you often choose words poorly, leading to lapses in common sense. Couple of examples:

Gorks smiled with his squinting face

Eyes squint, not faces.

He pricked his ears at a sound slowly prioritising itself over the prating of the Crauls

Assigning agency to something which doesn't possess it. Not always a black mark, but this example is awkward and clunky.

This piece most certainly does not evoke Homer.

It's also worth noting that genres like SF and fantasy have tighter rules than literary ficition. Of course, there are numerous examples of postmodern fictions which make promiscuous use of genre while grappling with weighty and complex themes - see novels like Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five or Don DeLillo's White Noise for examples. Such works have not only been published, but received critical acclaim and a wide readership. However, this extract doesn't remind of these. Instead, it strikes me as being fairly generic SF/futuristic fantasy space war stuff.

If you want "recognition" from your prospective readership, I also suggest that you develop some fucking respect for them:

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

I'm worried that [...] readers mightn't comprehend what I'm trying to say here; it might just blow over them..

I detest this particular emoticon, but it really does express my reaction to this: :rolleyes:

I suspect you're just trying to guard yourself against anticipated criticism: "Oh, you didn't like? I guess you just didn't get all the nuances and the complex philosophical themes..."

I suggest you seek out more feedback and revise your work. Sorry to be so negative, but I'm giving my honest reaction. Anyhow, keep working at it and you may well end up with something worth reading.

CD.

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Thanks for the advice but the prologue is actually set after the end of the book and by that stage the personality of the character has changed. Secondly the second part of the book focuses on a different character who is the Craul leader and I'm pretty proud of that part as it gives a good insight into the Crauls and their motives. The style of the book in the prologue is actually pretty cynical and pessimistic already to reflect the disposition of the main character, as he is back from his time in Versyria and has seen a lot of things by that stage.

could this cause problems? if you picked up a book, read teh prologue, got into it and then find that the voice completely changes in chapter one would that put you off?

Also, one of the things that really caught me was "swirling air" you cannot see air so it can't swirl, maybe you meant a heat haze, if that is how you meant it it took me a while to cop it, though that could just be me.

pickarooney

I'm not sure at what point a book where the writer takes risks with form and style can and does become a groundbreaking piece of fiction but this one won't. Not like this at least. It's ironic, but in setting out to make your début novel unique you've ended up essentially writing the same leaden mess of that most of us do at the first attempt.

Unless you're a complete freak of nature you cannot and will not shatter the mould the first time you put words on the page (it's something every writer will tell you but you will only understand once you've faced up to some harsh truths). Right now, you will probably have one of three reactions, or a mixture of all three. Where you go after that is vital.

a) Anger. You've spent a year crafting this. Every sentence contains images you've carefully selected. That squinting face is something you can visualise. It's not possible for someone to spend five minutes reading your work and dismiss it. These people don't understand. You log off and spend six months moving a few commas about.

b)Dejection. Your worst fears are realised and everyone has seen that there are a lot of words but no story. The emperor has clothes but no soul. You burn your hard drive.

c)Acceptance. You knew not everyone would like it but you can extract the positives. There's nothing so bad that it can't be fixed with a little help and a lot of work. You roll up your sleeves and start deleting those hundreds of pretty but useless words which are drowning your story.

Note: This might make no sense whatsoever. I've had a few beers, not slept in a while and am basically talking to myself.

CdeP

Hi EB. Enjoying post-Leaving Cert freedom? I certainly am!

Firstly, I seem to remember you saying that your writing style was relatively straightforward and it was more the themes which you were exploring that you hoped would challenge and engage the reader. Do you think that the above extract achieves this? Is it representative of the style that features throughout your book? To be honest, your writing style strikes me as a tad indulgent at times.

Also, I see nothing of Homer, Virgil or any of the other literary heavyweights you mentioned before in this extract. That's not to say that their ghosts won't haunt your pages at a later stage, of course, so I would be interested to see how that in particular develops.

Keep the extracts coming.

Eggy Baby!

c)Acceptance. You knew not everyone would like it but you can extract the positives. There's nothing so bad that it can't be fixed with a little help and a lot of work. You roll up your sleeves and start deleting those hundreds of pretty but useless words which are drowning your story.

Alea iacta est! And that makes wonderful sense by the way!


I don't know if I said my writing style evoked Homer or Virgil before (maybe I was bullcrapping!) but what I intended to convey is that the themes evoke them (the "hero" going on a quest for land and "god" etc.) Plus, the whole is more than the sum of its parts; I can't really show the thematic complexity by simply posting a lump of the book on the forums....but I can agree; I'm seeing that piece through new eyes and there is a hell of a lot of unnecessary baggage. One particular sentence that strikes me now looking at it is: "The runway was quite short, Gorks observed tiredly." I don't know, maybe its me trying to be a modernist by fudging around with the sentences. And despite the large amounts of adverbs and adjectives the piece is actually quite bland.

There are a few sentences and expressions I do like in the passage but in general it needs to be picked clean. Looking back on this, which I wrote over a year ago, it seems to be attempting way too hard to impress and not to entice.

I suspect you're just trying to guard yourself against anticipated criticism: "Oh, you didn't like? I guess you just didn't get all the nuances and the complex philosophical themes..."

I'm not. The piece isn't exactly a paragon of thematic complexity...

Plus, I welcome criticism. I didn't bloody put it up with the expectation that you'd all fawn at my "greatness". I'm a young writer, an inexperienced writer, but I'm an experienced human being, and I handle themes with ease. It's just the way I write a story that I tend to falter in. I was reading one of my earlier books and it was very broad stuff, and I had a vision, but I never realised it fully on the page.

But first of all, I need to finish this monster, and then do another draft, and it probably won't resemble the first draft in any way.

To be honest, your writing style strikes me as a tad indulgent at times.

I totally agree.

Sorry to be so negative, but I'm giving my honest reaction.

No need to be sorry! It's just your opinion...I don't hold any grudges on you for that!

Enjoying post-Leaving Cert freedom?

Oh I am

Wonderful criticism, keep it coming!

EileenG

One exercise I found very useful was to take a page of your text, and list all the adjectives and adverbs in it. Then list all the nouns and verbs. Cut out all the adjectives and adverbs, and see if you can strengthen the nouns and verbs so they are not necessary.

It can be a bit of a shocker when you see how heavy-handed you can be with the A&As, but afterwards, you'll see the difference in your writing.

As you write in third person limited, you don't need to keep saying "Groks saw" or "Groks thought", the reader assumes that whatever you describe is as seen by Groks.

pickarooney

Can I just say I hate the name Gorks? It's like geek+dork+plural. I'd warm more to a character called Skrog.

Eggy Baby!

EileenG wrote: »

One exercise I found very useful was to take a page of your text, and list all the adjectives and adverbs in it. Then list all the nouns and verbs. Cut out all the adjectives and adverbs, and see if you can strengthen the nouns and verbs so they are not necessary.

It can be a bit of a shocker when you see how heavy-handed you can be with the A&As, but afterwards, you'll see the difference in your writing.

As you write in third person limited, you don't need to keep saying "Groks saw" or "Groks thought", the reader assumes that whatever you describe is as seen by Groks.

That's very good advice; thanks a lot!

Can I just say I hate the name Gorks? It's like geek+dork+plural. I'd warm more to a character called Skrog.

Haha my dad said that it sounded like "dorks" too! Then he said it sounded like "gooks" etc.

But his name is short for Gorksnabu, which is mentioned earlier in the book. It's roughly analogous to "Peter". I toyed briefly with the idea of calling him Tanamn or Tanama as all of my books featuring Crauls have had a character called Tanama or Tanamn as it's a common Craul name, like John or James is to the English-speaking world.

CD.

Also, reading aloud is a helpful way of editing, it allows you to hear the flow of everything better and you're able to pick up jarring things/misplaced punctuation and the like.

Eggy Baby!

Sorry for the double post but here's another extract, which I have edited on the fly to some extent as it was pretty hard going previously. Note that the perspective character is referred to as "He" due to his importance in his society. (The Gazog is the district of Vazdiko City which has all the tall skyscrapers made out of glass-a business and administrative district. The character in the piece is not Gorks but is the leader of the Crauls travelling to the government buildings to make a speech. Groden, which are mentioned in the passage, are the inhabitants of a planetary fiefdom which belongs to the Craul Empire. They wear protective suits with air filters as they need them to exist on other planets because they can only breathe Xenon gas and also they are born very weak and stunted.)

He looked across at the Craul sitting opposite. Then left at the Craul sitting beside Him. Then he watched the hatted Craul at the wheel shrouded by glass, and smelt the mysterious odour of something new. Then He gazed up through the sunroof at the sky, and shifted His gaze across the Craul to look out the tinted window. His eyes lolled around at the Crauls seated in the car. They all seemed to be hiding something from Him.

The one beside was rattling his fingers to an obscure tune. The one across from Him was staring down at the belly of the car, legs crossed and hands clasped on his lap. The Craul bit his lip as the Craul across from him analysed him with His eyes. The driver was fixing the rear-view and glancing at the wing mirrors. It then occurred to Him that they awaited him with impatience that they attempted to conceal utterly but failed to do so. At this, He smiled and clicked his fingers in a wordless order. With a splutter, the car jolted and rolled down the drive of his home; He watched the gates flicker by along with its waving keeper; the keys jangling in his hands. He tutted and then sighed at this informality. Organisation and tradition delighted Him; when tradition disappeared or organisation collapsed, it made Him irate. But then again, He mused with pride, did He enjoy all of this because He was the apex of it?

His presumptions were right, He thought, as they were escorted onto the F-Three-Forty-Four that led straight to Vazdiko and joined a convoy of police motorcycles that hugged each corner of the car, forcing other vehicles off the lanes with swift and alarming gestures. The Crauls inside had all relaxed when He had ordered the driver to start the car. The one across the way was limber, his legs untied. The one to His left now was static, aside for a jumping right leg. The driver was now only making necessary mechanical movements. He knew now that they were all waiting for Him, and it made Him look out the darkened side window in exasperation at how pedantic he was.

He found Himself watching a police officer on the motorbike at the back-right corner of the car, and the emotionless visor glared back at the incongruous shape. The officer then hurriedly looked forward at the segmented road when he realised who he was staring at. With a light giggle that made the other two to look up in curiosity, He shook his head in the amazement that he felt every day as if for the first time. He loved the feeling of staring people’s gaze away. He never had to look away from a Craul’s stare.

The six-lane highway curved in a crescent and ascended a tall and barren hill south-west of the Gazog; here it bridged a rocky gorge and then swung down towards Vazdiko Kentr. The wide plains that stretched left and right of the gorge were gridded with orchards. In these orchards laboured Groden in their steel suits. Suits that protected their incapable bodies from the elements and disease. They were fighting with the plants, plundering their fruit.

Far in the distance were craggy mountains hairy with trees but with bare peaks. Trees stretched far to the outskirts of the orchards and then abruptly dissipated at a wooden border. They were almost like protestors at a fence, He thought, their branches grasping at the planks. I’d know a lot about protestors, He thought with disdain. Then He marvelled at the towers now just looming into sight and all ill thoughts were swept away. They protruded from a sultry haze, and behind them shone that blinding topaz ball, ferociously burning the sky into cinders, and the beings below. They all seemed transparent in its light, being built of glass and steel. They stood like mysterious runestones in a mystic fog, a temple of grandeur, their edges as sharp as razors. To Him they were monuments of civilisation, testament to Craul and the Crauls. At the very sight of the place, His heart beat hung. Vazdiko City, Capital of Capitals, Throne of Thrones.

In general, I still think it's an awkward piece which needs quite a bit of work despite the fly-editing but I just chose it to get feedback on that idea I had to replace "he" with "He". Is it too clunky or does it work well? I find that whenever I read the piece I stop at "He" or "His" every time like it's the start of a new sentence but its pretty important to the passage.

Feedback, again, would be appreciated! :pac:

pickarooney

I feel exactly the same about the use of He/Him. Even in its 'correct' context, referring to a deity, I've always found it distracting. In this instance I would lose as I don't think it adds anything. The character's importance should be clear from other indicators.

FWIW, this is much easier to read than the first extract.

Eggy Baby!

Even in its 'correct' context, referring to a deity, I've always found it distracting.

Me too, but it shows how people regard the leader in the society of the Crauls, but it's of thematic importance too as there is a motif of "false gods" running throughout the book as well as the power of politicians (which are equated to gods or having god-like power) over the powerless. Saying that, I do agree that his character is expressed through other indicators such as commanding everyone at his whim etc.

It's likely that, when all comes to all, the "He" will be gone in the final draft.

CdeP

You seem to have created quite an interesting universe, EB. Your writing style, however, seriously hinders the extent to which I can engage with and enjoy these extracts.

As pickarooney said, this extract is a tighter effort than the last and much easier to read but it is not flawless. You know that yourself. For example, "And then He", "He then", etc. seem to appear far too often. This rendered certain sections almost childlike in composition.

I found certain images from the two extracts to be not unlike a scene from a video game. Was this intentional?

Eggy Baby!

I found certain images from the two extracts to be not unlike a scene from a video game. Was this intentional?

What images are they and what games are they like?

EileenG

Eggy, don't lose sight of the fact that you are writing about stuff that you have made up! Just because it's based loosely on real societies and conflicts doesn't mean you have to be a slave to them. Take the essence of what you need to say, and discard or change the rest.

Just because your character's name is Peter in your language doesn't mean you are stuck with it. Translate it to something else that doesn't make a modern reader want to giggle.

Anything that hinders your story or jerks your reader out of it should be changed or deleted. It's not set in stone, it's on a computer disc. It's all open to change.

CdeP

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

What images are they and what games are they like?

Not a regular gamer myself so I wouldn't be able to name specific examples. Certain sections of the first extract you posted reminded me of cutscenes from video games for some reason. Were these an influence?

This isn't a negative criticism or anything, just an observation.

kickarykee

I am really sorry that I can't you give you any better advice than this, but if it was me, I wouldn't stray from my story for worry of it not going to be accepted.
I believe that every story the writer loves will be loved by lots of other people, too, and in times like these in which you are not necessarily dependent on publishers (see Amazon kindle and such) it's even possible to publish them without publishing houses accepting them. You can even reach more people that way.
Don't worry, I'm sure your story will turn out great and many folks will love to read it!!

Eggy Baby!

CdeP wrote: »

Not a regular gamer myself so I wouldn't be able to name specific examples. Certain sections of the first extract you posted reminded me of cutscenes from video games for some reason. Were these an influence?

This isn't a negative criticism or anything, just an observation.

Well I'm a pretty avid gamer myself but I wasn't really inspired at all by any scenes from games; plus even with my experience with games I've no idea still what games you're talking about

Kinski

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Well I'm a pretty avid gamer myself but I wasn't really inspired at all by any scenes from games; plus even with my experience with games I've no idea still what games you're talking about

Halo maybe? I've only ever played the third one though. Games are so heavily influenced by SF that it's not surprising that someone would be reminded of games when reading certain stories in that genre.