Will parts of the military still be around after...

silverharp

Here is the question, countires like the US Britain etc have underground facilities that can survive nuclear attacks etc. so can assume they are zombie proof as well :pac: will they maintain their command and control over what is left? For instance see below, there will be dozens of subs and other ships at sea that should do just fine. However would they stay connected, or would the crew of say the sub below just make a decision to look after themselves, pretty easy for them to pick a small island as a base



http://www.gizmag.com/go/7292/

A hulking 100 metres long, the Astute is the largest, most heavily armed, stealthiest and most sophisticated submarine ever built for the Royal Navy. The massive nuclear sub, which will never need refuelling in its 25 year service life, is able to circumnavigate the globe underwater, producing its own fresh water and air for the crew - and its range is only really limited by the need for fresh food supplies.

krissovo

My estimate is that command and control will break down to certain extent depending on the unit. Many land based units will look after their own barracks once panic sets in and get their families inside a fortification and defend that. Single soldiers or units led by single(not married, no family) commanding officer would more than likely continue their duties.

Sea based units would probably try and head back to home port to get their families. Submariners would probably remain part of the c&c structure, they are trained and psychologically tested/trained to continue their war mission after the big balloon goes up, but a lot depends on the Captain. The Captain could essentially keep what is happening on land from the crew so they may not even know what is happening.

Worse case scenarios are that isolated military units would become the new "Kingdoms" and form uncontrollable gangs that would eventually lead to some form of civil war.

ScumLord

The command of military's are usually in highly secure areas but it would depend on how many people they keep at the base as to whether it would be a viable colony. 150 people is the normal size of a human group so I think many of them would have enough people.

Switzerland has enough underground bunkers for the entire population with an entire army waiting underground so they could be fine as long as infected don't get into the bunkers.

While the military commands may be safe enough at the beginning they'll lose the ground troops that give them their overwhelming power. I don't see them disbanding though, commitment to the military is drilled into every member, they'll see themselves as the last hold out of civilisation and those in charge will probably feel obliged to protect that (and their power) at all costs.

Grizzly 45

Here is the question, countires like the US Britain etc have underground facilities that can survive nuclear attacks etc. so can assume they are zombie proof as well will they maintain their command and control over what is left? For instance see below, there will be dozens of subs and other ships at sea that should do just fine. However would they stay connected, or would the crew of say the sub below just make a decision to look after themselves, pretty easy for them to pick a small island as a base

So long as you have food in a nuke sub,you can stay down in theory ,until it runs out.No need to surface and use an island as a base. Unless the main command and control centre is knocked out[by a direct nuke hit on some of those],authorithy and C&C drops down to smaller HQ units.

Going by the US system it is the president who is commander in cheif,he is advised by the joint cheifs of staff on military and security matters.If the president is knocked out,it falls on the vice president who steps up to become president,if he is gone,it is then up to JCOS to elect a new president,vice president etc from any surviving members of Congress.

Not that they are all sitting in one bunker either..The JCOS is spread out in their seperate HQs as is the president and vic president..Think 9/11.We all knew where Bush was,no one had an idea where Cheney was..:P
So it is a dispersed reduncy stratgey,somone will survive to become the new commander in cheif.
As well as that they have planned for comms going down and how to communicate with their asetts all over the planet..It would be a very devestating fast situation to knock out the C&C of the Super powers.

Switzerland has enough underground bunkers for the entire population with an entire army waiting underground so they could be fine as long as infected don't get into the
bunkers.

We'l rephrase that..They USED to..The Swiss redoubt and fortification system has been downgraded alot since the Cold war ended.While it is still proably the best Civil defence system on the planet.I doubt very much that it will be up to peak efficency if say somthing happened tomrrow..
I'd say the Swiss would if given time just simply blow the bridges,tunnells and passes into Switzerland and go into lock down defense mode,and just exterminate any cases that are in the pouplation.but wether they could get every man into a bunker,fully stocked,warmed up and ready is now doubtful.

While the military commands may be safe enough at the beginning they'll lose the ground troops that give them their overwhelming power. I don't see them disbanding though, commitment to the military is drilled into every member, they'll see themselves as the last hold out of civilisation and those in charge will probably feel obliged to protect that (and their power) at all costs.

One would hope,but there will be attrition due to desertation,injuries,kills,whatever.And the military axiom is it is ten rear echelon[muthafu***rs] to keep one man in the fight!IOW you have 10 non combat personel to one combat soilder actually doing the trigger pulling.
So you might actually find that when things go that every man grab a rifle time and get your positions time..Some of these troops might not have fired a rifle since basic training!!:eek:.These are the kind that might have the highest desertation rates too. They are clerks and pen pushers in uniform who have a comfy on base life with a more or less 9to 5.
Hence they were known as REMF's in Vietnam.
Not to mind the "green machine" as that is what an army is,a well oiled functioning machine.It needs things to keep it going.What happens when the ammo resupply choppers dont come?Or the basic thing like food and medical supplies?It will start to malfunction and badly within a short time.
So unless you can keep the troops fed and waterd and in the fight with a mission objective.It will collapse quickly too.


Sea based units would probably try and head back to home port to get their families. Submariners would probably remain part of the c&c structure, they are trained and psychologically tested/trained to continue their war mission after the big balloon goes up, but a lot depends on the Captain. The Captain could essentially keep what is happening on land from the crew so they may not even know what is happening.

Abit hard not to know wTF is not going on with internet and CNN onboard just about every USN ship these days!:D Even if they did,ship scuttlebutt would have everyone informed in some shape or form,as why there is no further commands from shore HQ.

TBH,I see naval units becoming the independant new powers of the World.You have a nuke powerd boomer with what?15/20 nuke missiles with multiple nuke war heads..You are a superpower in the new world.A carrier battle group with a few nukes,is the equivlent as well of a superpower ,well able to take over a Z deveastated country. Fact is,it is a possibility that they might have a mission specific plan after Z day.IE nuke high density pouplation areas to remove masses of Z's ??

Worse case scenarios are that isolated military units would become the new "Kingdoms" and form uncontrollable gangs that would eventually lead to some form of civil war.

Worse case scenarios are that isolated military units would become the new "Kingdoms" and form uncontrollable gangs that would eventually lead to some form of civil war. Today 08:33
Fact!! It happened in Yougoslavia in the 90s,right down to village level betimes.:( I think the ones who will proably do well and survive will be the special forces units.Well trained in small unit tactics,how to live off the land and ruthless.They would be somthing to fear and proably be welcome to deal with the Z's.

silverharp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So long as you have food in a nuke sub,you can stay down in theory ,until it runs out.No need to surface and use an island as a base. Unless the main command and control centre is knocked out[by a direct nuke hit on some of those],authorithy and C&C drops down to smaller HQ units.

you'd have to assume I guess that the would stay plugged in and keep dicipline, so after 6 month or so they would attempt to head for home. The alternate would be fascinating, they would I guess eventually decide to pick an Island (my preference) and then try to implement the Dr Strangelove survival plan :pac: what was that ratio again 10:1 , happy days

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

TBH,I see naval units becoming the independant new powers of the World.You have a nuke powerd boomer with what?15/20 nuke missiles with multiple nuke war heads..You are a superpower in the new world.A carrier battle group with a few nukes,is the equivlent as well of a superpower ,well able to take over a Z deveastated country. Fact is,it is a possibility that they might have a mission specific plan after Z day.IE nuke high density pouplation areas to remove masses of Z's ??

my thoughts here was that the nuclear missles would be useless, they would be better off unloading them and dump as much of the other equipment to free up storage space., if they had some standard cruise missiles they would be useful against unfriendly naval ships

Grizzly 45

silverharp wrote: »

you'd have to assume I guess that the would stay plugged in and keep dicipline, so after 6 month or so they would attempt to head for home. The alternate would be fascinating, they would I guess eventually decide to pick an Island (my preference) and then try to implement the Dr Strangelove survival plan :pac: what was that ratio again 10:1 , happy days

Check Nevile Shutes book or the film [either the original 1950 or modern version] On the Beach.Goes into this situation abit albeit with a nuke war and a surviving US nuke sub being in Austrailia,and the consequences of a nuke war radiation coming slowly South.

my thoughts here was that the nuclear missles would be useless, they would be better off unloading them and dump as much of the other equipment to free up storage space., if they had some standard cruise missiles they would be useful against unfriendly naval ships

[/QUOTE]

Damn good bargining chip to dump.:D

silverharp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Check Nevile Shutes book or the film [either the original 1950 or modern version] On the Beach.Goes into this situation abit albeit with a nuke war and a surviving US nuke sub being in Austrailia,and the consequences of a nuke war radiation coming slowly South.

I think it was on a few months back , I think I missed the beginning

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Damn good bargining chip to dump.:D

maybe not dump but off load for sure. No expert but there must be a lot of equipment on a sub which is not useful if you see the sub as the backbone to the survival of your group and command and control has broken down or decide to ignore it. Essentially you want to make the best use of space on the sub and reduce power consumption etc. the silo space might be convertable to extra living or storage space

Grizzly 45

silverharp wrote: »

I think it was on a few months back , I think I missed the beginning

Youtube has the original vesion.;)

maybe not dump but off load for sure. No expert but there must be a lot of equipment on a sub which is not useful if you see the sub as the backbone to the survival of your group and command and control has broken down or decide to ignore it. Essentially you want to make the best use of space on the sub and reduce power consumption etc. the silo space might be convertable to extra living or storage space

Hmmm..I reckon to do that you are almost looking at rippin out over 50% of the sub!!A nuke carrying sub is built for one purpose,to carry nuke missiles and to launch them when need be.So that means opening the double hulls,yanking out the tubes and re designing the decks,Losing the weps fire control system,then re balancing and strengthing the entire frame,selaing it all ,pressure testing,and test diving the sub again....
IOW alot of work in a dry dock somplace,and there arent many nuke sub dry docks about the place, and a team of engineers who know nuke subs and how to to re build them...Not really feasabile unless I'm missing somthing here??

BigDuffman

Absolutely, but as opposed to launching large scale battle of yonkers style attacks. I'd envisage the Irish DF maintaining secure zones.

Most walled military barracks and armouries are highly defendable and by their nature have an abundance of Wpns and people trained to use them.

Only issue being the supply of Ammo (supply varies depending on the role/size of the barracks) and food (also limited but in a better position than most).

So that would mean that sorties out would be limited to necessity (resupply) as opposed to being out rescuing the entire population of Ireland!

Whilst the likes of McKee Barracks in town is a perfect defensive position, the only issue is that it is smack bang in the middle of a huge population centre.