new ambulances CEN compliance

ivabiggon

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/134773/161484.JPG


just a quick question, this is a link to the vehicle pic only forum, a new order of malta ambulance, does it not have to comply with the CEN regs for ambulances.
colour and tail lift, after all the volunteers are entitled to H&S while transfering patients and lifting in and out?

Prenderb

It could be that the EN standard is voluntary, but best practice for certain types. Perhaps the owners didn't want the weight of the lift on the vehicle for driver licensing requirements, and possibly their intended use doesn't require or envisage patient lifting?

sdanseo

At the end of the day they're going to be lifting an awful lot less people, if any, than the NAS/DFB. A patient lift is as such not an absolute nessecity, sure everyone managed without them till what, 2005? The cost would simply not be justified I'd imagine.

ivabiggon

i would have thought the vol. would have gone for the safer option as they never know what use the vehicle would get and the fact that it is manned by volunteers and as they wouldn't be covered by sick pay scheme such as a paid paramedic & if there was an incident involving the ambulance they should be afforded all safety solutions available, particularly the lift.
the mear fact that these organisation do alot of work with the old and infirm and is likely they would have to lift the client into the back of the ambulance and old people aren't always light.

Paulzx

My understanding of the CEN regs is that the rear of the ambulance must be crashproof and rollproof hence the structure must have a roll bar. This also requires the stretchers to be crashproof.

For this reason the newer style stretchers are extremely heavy and cumbersome and cannot be manhandled into the ambulance like the old Stryker ones.

This is the reason the tail lifts are required and there are also huge benifits for saving the crews backs longterm with using them.

I have no idea whether the ambulance pictured requires CEN compliance. However best practice to me seems that the ambo should be built taking intot account the wear and tear on the crews.

The fact that we used to lift all stretchers 5 years ago is not an arguement to maintain that system. The condition of my back and hundreds of other paramedics who used the old system is testamnent to how crap it was.

civdef

Not having seen the inside of that abulance, could it not have a wedge ramp like a lot of van conversion ambulances?

ivabiggon

yeah i suppose it could be the system used is a ramp. and i agree about the saving the backs issiue, but what about the colour scheme?? and hi visibility etc

civdef

On the colours, CEN standards are "norms" or guidelines, rather than regulations. I don't think they're mandatory.

ivabiggon

so we in the fire brigade could paint our ambulances red





i think these colours would look great on DFB ambos, maybe with a bit more gold and red as oppose to white

anybody any good at photo shop, and would do up a sample??:D

ivabiggon

ivabiggon wrote: »

so we in the fire brigade could paint our ambulances red

Before they were white in Dublin they used to be red. Just like the one that was used as a stores vehicle.

ivabiggon

sorry mods i know this is of the subject here, willl get back on track asap. but really i never knew that they were red ever, i must check that out with the lads in the historical society, as far as i can remember back as a child they were white, and i thought before that they were cream, as the lads in the garage did one up a few years ago and i asked about the cream colour and they told me that was the original colour.
what era are we talking here?
and has anyone got a picture?

ivabiggon

ivabiggon wrote: »

sorry mods i know this is of the subject here, willl get back on track asap. but really i never knew that they were red ever, i must check that out with the lads in the historical society, as far as i can remember back as a child they were white, and i thought before that they were cream, as the lads in the garage did one up a few years ago and i asked about the cream colour and they told me that was the original colour.
what era are we talking here?
and has anyone got a picture?

It would have been around the early 90's. Unless they were always running stores vans in that colour. Always remember them being transits. Think they may have been before the white Merc's.

5500

Theres a pic somehwere in the vehicle gallery (had a look but cant find it) of a red ford ambulance. Not sure if its dfb or from cork when the fb ran ambulances down there

ivabiggon

foreign wrote: »

It would have been around the early 90's. Unless they were always running stores vans in that colour. Always remember them being transits. Think they may have been before the white Merc's.

no it certainly wasn't in the 90's or 80's either, i started in the fire brigade in the early 90's and the were white then, but they did have red service vans in transits and personel carriers alright.

ivabiggon

ivabiggon wrote: »

no it certainly wasn't in the 90's or 80's either, i started in the fire brigade in the early 90's and the were white then, but they did have red service vans in transits and personel carriers alright.

I could have been one of them alright. Seem to remember it as being in Tara Street.

timmywex

ivabiggon wrote: »

so we in the fire brigade could paint our ambulances red





i think these colours would look great on DFB ambos, maybe with a bit more gold and red as oppose to white

anybody any good at photo shop, and would do up a sample??:D

A very bad picture done very quickly on photoshop here because i dont have time!

But you probably get the idea?! Might do a proper mock up some time just to see what it would be like!

Hooch

Is a tail lift part of CEN requirements??

I was under the impression that CEN was all about having nothing moveable or loose in the back.....incase of an accident as Paul said????

Paulzx

NGA wrote: »

Is a tail lift part of CEN requirements??

I was under the impression that CEN was all about having nothing moveable or loose in the back.....incase of an accident as Paul said????

It sets everything from colours, to internal layouts to seating etc.

As far as i'm aware as a European standard it is not complulsory on member nations to adopt it in full or to retrofit vehicles. It sets what it considers to be the optimum standard for vehicles being used as ambulances and to try and standardize them across the EU

It is up to each member state to decide on its adaptation of it.

Personally, i think we'd still be lugging stretchers in and out manually without it. As someone who has worked with both type of ambos i'll take the CEN ones anyday.

Yes, we have major problems technically with ramps which is due to huge wear and tear from overwork but i'd rather trash ramps than my back anyday

sdanseo

Slightly OT - ambulances are yellow for high visibility and should stay that way. US ambulances and fire "trucks" are designed like ornate lampshades rather than functional pieces of lifesaving equipment, in some cases ludicrously so. They still store their hoses folded and unrestrained, they don't demand any retro reflective markings (except CA) and their emergency lighting is so useless (or in some cases so much like a Christmas tree you have to try not to laugh) that no emergency service should EVER be modelled on their stupid and substandard way of doing things.

ivabiggon

Paulzx wrote: »

It sets everything from colours, to internal layouts to seating etc.

As far as i'm aware as a European standard it is not complulsory on member nations to adopt it in full or to retrofit vehicles. It sets what it considers to be the optimum standard for vehicles being used as ambulances and to try and standardize them across the EU

It is up to each member state to decide on its adaptation of it.

Personally, i think we'd still be lugging stretchers in and out manually without it. As someone who has worked with both type of ambos i'll take the CEN ones anyday.

Yes, we have major problems technically with ramps which is due to huge wear and tear from overwork but i'd rather trash ramps than my back anyday

ye i agree with the wear n tear on the backs thats why i would be surprised if that new ambulance in my opening post hasn't got some sort of back friend system.
when the new trolley/lift i had done the on station instructors coarse and was very skeptical about the whole thing, now i wouldn't even try lift a patient into the back of the ambo without the lift, and i have to say the stair chair with tracks are a great job also, it's of limited use as it takes up so much floor space to operate but great job. is a pity our trollies (dfb) don't cater for the larger patient like the hse ones with the expandable sides, as a result all of the side bars on our trollies are all bent out.

civdef

On the US fire appliances, folding ("flaking") the hoses the way the do fits well with their tactics of "big fire, big water". This in turn is based around the fact their historical building construction types don't resist fire as well as we'd be familiar with.

Whilst we do lots different over here, particularly with regard to safety (and when you look into the stats, their loss rate isn't as bad as is sometimes made out), I would be very reluctant to label their way of doing things as "stupid and substandard".

ivabiggon

sdonn wrote: »

Slightly OT - ambulances are yellow for high visibility and should stay that way. US ambulances and fire "trucks" are designed like ornate lampshades rather than functional pieces of lifesaving equipment, in some cases ludicrously so. They still store their hoses folded and unrestrained, they don't demand any retro reflective markings (except CA) and their emergency lighting is so useless (or in some cases so much like a Christmas tree you have to try not to laugh) that no emergency service should EVER be modelled on their stupid and substandard way of doing things.

ye but red is very visible, so it would be functional on a fire brigade ambulance similar to the colour model of the motors or the ET, it works in france and other countries with fire operated services, if you take the example below and add our already existing batten burg reflectors. i think it would be very functional.

ivabiggon

civdef wrote: »

On the US fire appliances, folding ("flaking") the hoses the way the do fits well with their tactics of "big fire, big water". This in turn is based around the fact their historical building construction types don't resist fire as well as we'd be familiar with.

Whilst we do lots different over here, particularly with regard to safety (and when you look into the stats, their loss rate isn't as bad as is sometimes made out), I would be very reluctant to label their way of doing things as "stupid and substandard".

hey look lads, can we stick to my main topic here, i just wanted to discuss the cen requirements and modeling ambulances on it, if yis want to talk big fires and tactics & your dislike of other services in the world can you start your own tread, please. thanks:rolleyes:

ivabiggon

something like the existing adv. paramedic car

sgthighway

ivabiggon wrote: »

something like the existing adv. paramedic car

I would not class that as a car.
Is that van a multi purpose vehicle or specifically an AP Vehicle.
(Genuine Question - but it does not look practical for an AP or does it have a stretcher)

ivabiggon

ye it a specifically designed vehicle for Adv. paramedic work. it's a van derived car...







i think it exactly what is required, plenty of space for equipment and interns, doctors and crew. and the engine is the same as in the the merc ambulances, so plenty of power!!

also you can see the locker system and O2 holders inside is specked the same as a regular ambulance. plus a solid bulk head between the crew cab and the storage area

Manic Moran

US ambulances and fire "trucks" are designed like ornate lampshades rather than functional pieces of lifesaving equipment, in some cases ludicrously so. They still store their hoses folded and unrestrained, they don't demand any retro reflective markings (except CA) and their emergency lighting is so useless (or in some cases so much like a Christmas tree you have to try not to laugh)

That's a bizarre comment. From the air horns that you can hear two miles away through the lights festooned on every corner and thensome (not to mention also the willingness to lob flares and other external indicators once at the scene), the last thing I'd accuse the US vehicles of is a lack of visibility. I've never had any difficulty determining that one was in my vicinity.

NTM