Obstruction on the gut

funny man

I have a cow that was diagnosed with an obstruction on her gut, the vet put 5 litres of liquid parrafin and a shot of buscopan into her on tuesday morning and she passed no dung, so i gave her another shot of buscopan yesterday evening and still nothing, she is in good form, drinking water but not eating as she is quite full, just wondering has anyone else come across this and if so what was the out-come.

whelan1

we had a few a few years ago, they all died the last one we cracked what the problem was, turned out the scanner man had perforated the cows , causing adhesions and leading what seemed like blockages .The last cow couldn't piddle , the vet saw similar cases years ago- by the same scanning man:rolleyes:- so we got a third party to do a pm , we havent had one since... if the liquid parafin isnt moving it it doesnt look good

funny man

well there was a movement this morning, but she's still quite full so i don't think she's sorted yet. put another 5 litres of liquid parafin and a shot of buscopan, so i'm hoping that she will get going.

convert

If there's still a blockage it's not advisable to let her eat as it will only make matters worse. If the liquid parafin isn't helping, unfortunately it doesn't look good for her. Any blockages like that I've come across in cattle haven't ended well, unfortunately.

MrKerry

Stop injecting the cow with buscopan. You are relaxing the stomach and will not function, return to normal.

Keep using the parafin, bottle her with coffee, treacle, mollasses, brown sugar etc.

Had success with the above.

You are against the clock.

Good luck

pajero12

Was she still on silage? Precision chop?

LostCovey

MrKerry wrote: »

Stop injecting the cow with buscopan. You are relaxing the stomach and will not function, return to normal.

Keep using the parafin, bottle her with coffee, treacle, mollasses, brown sugar etc.

Yeah, right, MrKerry, I am sure the OP will abandon the treatment recommended by a veterinary surgeon that actually saw the cow and go for a suggestion on an internet forum from someone who did not.

Are you sure thats not the just makings of one of Nigella's nice treacle cakes?

LostCovey

MrKerry

My cow is alive.

pajero12

Thats not to say coming off the drugs saved her though?

MrKerry

buscopan works within the first 6 to 12 hours.

If the stomach does not move/turn you are losing approx. 10% chance of her surviving with every day that passes. First noticed last Tuesday, do the maths, get the coffee, mollasses and the treacle, my cow is alive!!!

Kovu

I had a cow that got a murren from redwater. She got so bad that I was debating getting her put down, standing ans swaying in the field, neck out from her looking uncomfortable.
Neighbour suggested "cud" from a slaughtered animal and dosing her with 3 - 5 litres of it. (cud is the fluid from the stomach so it has all the gastric digestive stuff to start her gut working again) So got a gallon from a butcher and drenched her.
I kid you not, in 24hrs she was grazing lightly. Worth a shot as I've heard it's worked with others.

Kovu

Oh and mine went 10 days without food before recovering. Hope it works out for you! My fingers are crossed.:)

LostCovey

MrKerry wrote: »

buscopan works within the first 6 to 12 hours.

If the stomach does not move/turn you are losing approx. 10% chance of her surviving with every day that passes. First noticed last Tuesday, do the maths, get the coffee, mollasses and the treacle, my cow is alive!!!

Wow, that is SO scientific. Well scientific-sounding anyway. This 10%/day incremental equation of mortality in the intestinally obstructed is a fascinating piece of science.

I suppose you realise 63% of statistics are made up on the spot (including this one).

Do you know what is blocking her gut? No.

Neither do I. But I think her best chance lies with someone who has 5 years of training and has examined her.

Have you considered getting out of the trade in treacle cake mix and getting into homoeopathy - I think your diagnostic techniques and your prognosticatory faculties are made for it.

LostCovey

whelan1

Karen112 wrote: »

I had a cow that got a murren from redwater. She got so bad that I was debating getting her put down, standing ans swaying in the field, neck out from her looking uncomfortable.
Neighbour suggested "cud" from a slaughtered animal and dosing her with 3 - 5 litres of it. (cud is the fluid from the stomach so it has all the gastric digestive stuff to start her gut working again) So got a gallon from a butcher and drenched her.
I kid you not, in 24hrs she was grazing lightly. Worth a shot as I've heard it's worked with others.

the stuff from the factory is the same as the stimulex powders, i am also a believer in coffee, so i would drench with stimulex , coffee and a lectade or 2 to give her energy... you can oick up the coffee on offer for around a euro a har no need to be using the €4 jar from your local shop as i used to do:rolleyes: i would also agree with the comments to relax on the buscapan and see how she goes

snowman707

coffee, and stimulex at this stage I would be giving treacle or molasses instead of LP


in cases like this past experience is worth a lot more than 5 years in vet college

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

the stuff from the factory is the same as the stimulex powders, i am also a believer in coffee, so i would drench with stimulex , coffee and a lectade or 2 to give her energy... you can oick up the coffee on offer for around a euro a har no need to be using the €4 jar from your local shop as i used to do:rolleyes: i would also agree with the comments to relax on the buscapan and see how she goes

Like the desert rose, I am probably wasting my sweetness on the desert air but here goes:

Yes Stimulex & rumen juice are similar (rumen juice is better, and free!)

Coffee is used for ileus, one manifestation of which is a lack of tone in the gut.

Buscopan is a spasmolytic, used when there is evidence of a twist or torsion in the gut. It is also a pain reliever if the bowel spasms are causing pain, which itself can inhibit gut movement.

Most obstructions are caused by paralysis or spasm, or a foreign body, like plastic. Some are caused by a further myriad of rarer conditions.

Coffee & buscopan have directly opposing activities, and are used to treat different things. I am always amazed at the willingness of forum posters to pronounce with great certainty on the best treatment of someone else's animals without the slightest clue of what is being treated.

Lectade contains electrolytes and just barely enough glucose to fuel the absorption of the fluid (water) & electrolytes. It has NO energy value, despite W1 believing it has, as many people do. A young calf will starve to death on it in days.

Everyone is an expert on the web, because there are no consequences (for the expert). It reminds me of an old car we used to have that wouldn't start after mass some Sundays. People who wouldn't top up the screenwash on their own car would suddenly become automotive engineers, and they would line up to tell my father what to do to the points and the alternator, and what he could add to the battery "to give it a bit of a jizz-up".

I haven't got a clue which is ailing the OP's cow, and I wouldn't presume to try treating her when the OP has the benefit of a qualified person who has seen her and who he has engaged at great cost I assume to give her the best chance.

So, OP, your cow might live or die (and I hope she lives), but you should stick to well-informed & well qualified local advice, and treat all the internet experts (including me) with the height of contempt.

LostCovey

whelan1

how's the cow?

funny man

Yea thanks for all the replies folk's, still no change on the cow, talked to the vet this morning and we discussed was there any other treatment and he says that the blockage is in the large intestine and the stomach is functioning so the problem is down further, he did say stimulex would be no harm to keep the stomach right but at this stage he reckons that she'll need a major miracle, he done some enquiring and says very few cases live as convert indicated earlier. i've put another 5 litres of liquid parafin and 30cc of buscopan this evening but i think i'm flogging a dead horse.

Kovu

funny man wrote: »

Yea thanks for all the replies folk's, still no change on the cow, talked to the vet this morning and we discussed was there any other treatment and he says that the blockage is in the large intestine and the stomach is functioning so the problem is down further, he did say stimulex would be no harm to keep the stomach right but at this stage he reckons that she'll need a major miracle, he done some enquiring and says very few cases live as convert indicated earlier. i've put another 5 litres of liquid parafin and 30cc of buscopan this evening but i think i'm flogging a dead horse.

How does he know the stomach is still functioning? I'm not disrespecting his experience but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. Unless it's stethoscope or something?

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

How does he know the stomach is still functioning? I'm not disrespecting his experience but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. Unless it's stethoscope or something?

By stethoscope, or by hand - leave your hand on a (quiet) cow's left flank (behind the ribs) and the first stomach will do a major churn a couple of times a minute if all is well. You will feel it rise and fall like a calf turning inside.

LC

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

By stethoscope, or by hand - leave your hand on a (quiet) cow's left flank (behind the ribs) and the first stomach will do a major churn a couple of times a minute if all is well. You will feel it rise and fall like a calf turning inside.

LC

But is that not when they are cudding? And this cow sounds like she is not in the cudding state.....? I honestly have never had to check a cow for stomach function before. In the profession it is a necessity to know!

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

But is that not when they are cudding? And this cow sounds like she is not in the cudding state.....? I honestly have never had to check a cow for stomach function before. In the profession it is a necessity to know!

No, it is constant in a healthy cow.

From http://www.cvm.umn.edu/tmf/mgmtprotocols/physicalexam/home.html

Move up her left side and listen to her rumen in the triangle formed by her last rib and the spine at her loin (the paralumbar fossa). Also feel for how much each rumen contraction moves her paralumbar fossa in and out. The degree of motion is a better measure of strength of rumen contractions than the amount of sound you hear. The normal cow has about two rumen contractions per minute (typically one at time zero, then 20 seconds or so later, then quiet for 40 seconds or so).

LostCovey

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

No, it is constant in a healthy cow.

From http://www.cvm.umn.edu/tmf/mgmtprotocols/physicalexam/home.html

Move up her left side and listen to her rumen in the triangle formed by her last rib and the spine at her loin (the paralumbar fossa). Also feel for how much each rumen contraction moves her paralumbar fossa in and out. The degree of motion is a better measure of strength of rumen contractions than the amount of sound you hear. The normal cow has about two rumen contractions per minute (typically one at time zero, then 20 seconds or so later, then quiet for 40 seconds or so).

LostCovey

Thank you. I knew about cudding times but never knew that.

funny man

My cow died yesterday morning, got a post mortem done on her, He said she had a condition called Gastroparesis, in lay mans terms a paralysis of part of the stomach, Learn something new everyday.

Bizzum

Thanks for the update Funny man, sobering and all as it is.
Any idea what, if anything specific, would cause such a paralysis?

whelan1

funny man wrote: »

My cow died yesterday morning, got a post mortem done on her, He said she had a condition called Gastroparesis, in lay mans terms a paralysis of part of the stomach, Learn something new everyday.

thats a new one