Speed Cameras - Specifically Motorcycles V Cars being caught

vicwatson

Hi,

It occured to me recently that motorcycles must be exempt from being caught by a gatso van simply as they have no front number plate.

Am I wrong here, if I'm right, why the heck are cars subsidising them when they break the speed limit when they cannot be fined?

REXER

Stop whining and get a bike!

Anan1

vicwatson wrote: »

Am I wrong here, if I'm right, why the heck are cars subsidising them when they break the speed limit when they cannot be fined?

1. Cameras can take pics of either the front or rear of vehicles

2. Goodle 'subsidise'.;)

Sesshoumaru

vicwatson wrote: »

Hi,

It occured to me recently that motorcycles must be exempt from being caught by a gatso van simply as they have no front number plate.

Am I wrong here, if I'm right, why the heck are cars subsidising them when they break the speed limit when they cannot be fined?

Good old Irish begrudery. Did you know they are also exempt from some tolls? and the tolls they do pay are also less. You'll also be happy to know that regardless of engine capacity or emissions, all bikes pay 72 euro per year road tax. Bikes don't have to do an NCT either.

Just some more happy thoughts for you

Anan1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Good old Irish begrudery. Did you know they are also exempt from some tolls? and the tolls they do pay are also less. You'll also be happy to know that regardless of engine capacity or emissions, all bikes pay 72 euro per year road tax. Bikes don't have to do an NCT either.

Just some more happy thoughts for you

I think it's going to rain.;)

Keith186

Anan1 wrote: »

1. Cameras can take pics of either the front or rear of vehicles

Is that only from the rear of the speed van though?

i.e. you can drive towards the rear of the van but it can't catch you on a bike.

Recording the back of a vehicle relates to vehicles on the other side of the road I imagine.

Anyone know for sure if they have forward facing cameras?

vicwatson

Stop whining and get a bike!

There's a reason why this was posted in the "motors" section and not the "motorbikes" section

1. Cameras can take pics of either the front or rear of vehicles

By far the majority are pointing towards you.

Good old Irish begrudery. Did you know they are also exempt from some tolls? and the tolls they do pay are also less. You'll also be happy to know that regardless of engine capacity or emissions, all bikes pay 72 euro per year road tax. Bikes don't have to do an NCT either.

Just some more happy thoughts for you

I think not re being bedgrudging. You use the road like I do then you must also pay speeding fines like I do. Simple really. Unless you can come up with some fantastic reason why you shouldn't adhere to speeding laws:rolleyes:

Bikes don't have to do an NCT either.

And they can seemingly overtake on continuous white lines too:D

I think it's going to rain.

:eek::D

Recording the back of a vehicle relates to vehicles on the other side of the road I imagine.

Thought the way the cameras work was that they bounced to the car and back hence giving them the speed read out, not sure if they work when car is going away from the camera?

Anyone know for sure if they have forward facing cameras?

This would be interesting to know alright.

Anan1

Keith186 wrote: »

Is that only from the rear of the speed van though?

i.e. you can drive towards the rear of the van but it can't catch you on a bike.

Recording the back of a vehicle relates to vehicles on the other side of the road I imagine.

Anyone know for sure if they have forward facing cameras?

That's actually a good point, any vans i've seen so far have been pointing in the same direction as the traffic.

vicwatson

That's actually a good point, any vans i've seen so far have been pointing in the same direction as the traffic.

Yes, and therefore are taking pics of the registration on the front of the vehicle (except of course you happen to be riding a motorcycle that is:()

Sesshoumaru

I think not re being bedgrudging. You use the road like I do then you must also pay speeding fines like I do. Simple really. Unless you can come up with some fantastic reason why you shouldn't adhere to speeding laws

If I get caught speeding I have to pay a fine/get points as well. What planet are you on?

Did you ever hear of the concept of "finite resources"? There are only about 30k bikes in this country. Same way we can't afford a cop on every street corner, the powers that be have decided that we don't need all speed cameras to be capable of catching bikes. With so few bikes in Ireland, it would bring in very little revenue is probably what they think.

Also speed camera's are only one small part of speed enforcement in this country. There are many other ways you can get caught speeding, including getting caught by a bike cop.

And they can seemingly overtake on continuous white lines too

Do you always type/speak the random thoughts that come into your head?

Sesshoumaru

Anan1 wrote: »

I think it's going to rain.;)

If I can go fast enough I can go back in time to before it was raining

Viper_JB

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

There are only about 30k bikes in this country. Same way we can't afford a cop on every street corner, the powers that be have decided that we don't need all speed cameras to be capable of catching bikes.

Does anyone know how many deaths on the roads last year were involving bikes, considering their are far fewer bikes on the road sure the percentages will show that nearly no one riding a bike died last year, and if not then surely from a saftey POV bikes should be clamped down on more so then cars?

Anan1

Viper_JB wrote: »

Does anyone know how many deaths on the roads last year were involving bikes, considering their are far fewer bikes on the road sure the percentages will show that nearly no one riding a bike died last year, and if not then surely from a saftey POV bikes should be clamped down on more so then cars?

AFAIK motorbike riders make up around 1% of the traffic but 10% of the fatalaties on our roads.

Viper_JB

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK motorbike riders make up around 1% of the traffic but 10% of the fatalaties on our roads.

I just done some quick googling there lol these are very rough figures but...
1 in 1764 bikers died on the roads last year
1 in 10526 car drivers died on the roads last year....

Anan1

Viper_JB wrote: »

I just done some quick googling there lol these are very rough figures but...
1 in 1764 bikers died on the roads last year
1 in 10526 car drivers died on the roads last year....

You'd have to calculate per km travelled to make a proper comparison, but bikers are a lot more likely to die than drivers. I'd imagine that bikers are relatively unlikely to kill others though, which could arguably make them less of a danger to society than drivers.

BronsonTB

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Good old Irish begrudery.

+1

I'd like the OP to go on a bike for a few weeks & see just how much crap they have to put up with.....Maybe then they'd wouldn't be so quick to think bikers get away with anything...

Actaully all car drivers should have to do a mandatory 2 months on a bike...Would improve driver awareness no end.....

Anan1

BronsonTB wrote: »

I'd like the OP to go on a bike for a few weeks & see just how much crap they have to put up with.....Maybe then they'd wouldn't be so quick to think bikers get away with anything...

How would this change whether bikes get caught by Gatso vans?

Our man in Havana

There is a secondary camera that faces the front. It is there to catch deviant motorcyclists.

BronsonTB

Our man in Havana wrote: »

There is a secondary camera that faces the front. It is there to catch deviant motorcyclists.

Well let that close the issue....EVERYONE gets caught....

Sesshoumaru

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/motorcycling/overnmentsmotorcyclingst4550.pdf

The UK government actually has a motorcycling strategy. Some interesting reading. Page 28 has the accident statistics.

Thread relevant part

On speed, generally motorcyclists’
propensity to speed is not so very different
to car drivers. But a proportion of
motorcyclists speed more excessively
than car drivers and this is particularly
noticeable on single carriageway roads
with a 60mph speed limit. Furthermore,
speeding as a behaviour by motorcyclists
leads to far more accidents involving their
death than it does when car drivers have
accidents speeding.

My understand of this paragraph is that motorcyclists speeding is not very different from car drivers speeding. Except that there is a small group who like to speed excessively. I bolded the important part though, it's more likely to lead to the motorcyclists death! Riding a motorcycle is more dangerous for the riders health than for other peoples health. People should keep that in mind when they start talking about "clamping down" on motorcyclists.

Accidents involving cars lead
to nearly 50% of motorcyclist fatalities. In
39% of cases the precipitating factor was
attributable to the motorcyclist but the vast
majority was down to the car driver, except
where the motorcyclist died.

Viper_JB

Anan1 wrote: »

You'd have to calculate per km travelled to make a proper comparison, but bikers are a lot more likely to die than drivers. I'd imagine that bikers are relatively unlikely to kill others though, which could arguably make them less of a danger to society than drivers.

True, but it'd make sense that they would be slightly more concerned about the saftey of bikers as they are far more vunerable on the road espically with high speed factors in play, but it seems like the opposite is true. I know the cameras are there more as a revenue generating exercise, it'd be a bit less annoying if they weren't so blatant about it, ignoring people who are far more at risk on the roads in favour of catching people out.

Sesshoumaru

Viper_JB wrote: »

True, but it'd make sense that they would be slightly more concerned about the saftey of bikers as they are far more vunerable on the road espically with high speed factors in play, but it seems like the opposite is true. I know the cameras are there more as a revenue generating exercise, it'd be a bit less annoying if they weren't so blatant about it, ignoring people who are far more at risk on the roads in favour of catching people out.

Thanks, but no thanks! I don't want a nanny state looking after me. As I pointed out in my last post, bikers are not a danger to other road users. If we want to ride motorcycles then that is our choice.

Wossack

Not too concerned about the rear numberplate either tbh...

http://www.visordown.com/news/images/feetupmoped.jpg

Sesshoumaru

Wossack wrote: »

Not too concerned about the rear numberplate either tbh...

http://www.visordown.com/news/images/feetupmoped.jpg

THENORTHSIDER

If u don't exceed the lawful speed limits then you don't have to worry about being caught. Therefore you shouldn't worry about others are doing. Have to go and peep out my net curtains to see what the neighbours are up to :eek:

Anan1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks! I don't want a nanny state looking after me. As I pointed out in my last post, bikers are not a danger to other road users. If we want to ride motorcycles then that is our choice.

The right to endanger ones own life is by no means a given in our society - behaviours involving far less risk to society than speeding on a bike are illegal. And the risk to the public posed by speeding bikes, while smaller than cars, is nonetheless real.

Sesshoumaru

Anan1 wrote: »

The right to endanger ones own life is by no means a given in our society - behaviours involving far less risk to society than speeding on a bike are illegal. And the risk to the public posed by speeding bikes, while smaller than cars, is nonetheless real.

I have a right to ride a motorcycle. Speeding or not, I'm less of a risk to society than a car that is speeding or not speeding. Riding a motorcycle, statistically only puts me more at risk.

I'm not looking for exemption from speeding laws for motorcyclists, points and fines are equally applicable to bikers as they are to car drivers. I just don't see why some people think bikers need extra policing.

Although I am fine with more mandatory training for both bikers and car drivers! I did 35 hours of motorcycle training before I did my test and passed. In the car I have also done refresher advanced driver training with the IAM, so really I'm all for training both sets of drivers. Standards are terrible in this country and Irish peoples attitudes to training is also something that needs adjusting.

Anan1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I have a right to ride a motorcycle. Speeding or not, I'm less of a risk to society than a car that is speeding or not speeding. Riding a motorcycle, statistically only puts me more at risk.

I'm not looking for exemption from speeding laws for motorcyclists, points and fines are equally applicable to bikers as they are to car drivers. I just don't see why some people think bikers need extra policing.

Although I am fine with more mandatory training for both bikers and car drivers! I did 35 hours of motorcycle training before I did my test and passed. In the car I have also done refresher advanced driver training with the IAM, so really I'm all for training both sets of drivers. Standards are terrible in this country and Irish peoples attitudes to training is also something that needs adjusting.

I agree with all of the above.

spiggotpaddy

boards can be a funny old place. there are so many threads shouting no no no
don't buy the 1.6 its a snail don't buy the 1.4, it wont go up a hill,
you have to get a six cylinder the four is'nt a real motor.

then you have the other side of the coin,speed is evil breaking the r.o.r is a huge no no.white van man is a psychopath, motorbikes are the wheels of satin they should pay.

most bikers in this country have a car so we should'nt really have this "them and us" attitude. the way the insurance co's are going, there wont be any motorcycles in a few generations because its quite expensive for a person to get started and numbers are falling.so when there are no more bikes "subsidising" cars ffs.we can turn on the trucks.

kwalshe

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Thanks, but no thanks! I don't want a nanny state looking after me. As I pointed out in my last post, bikers are not a danger to other road users. If we want to ride motorcycles then that is our choice.

Yeah , that biker that drove between 2 lanes of 120kph moving traffic that I saw on the M9 this morning . He looked like he was weaving between virtual cones between the lanes, was no danger allright. He was doing no less than 150 kmh.
While I'll admit it looked impressive and he looked guite graceful, he was a w€nker.
And unless the speed cameras have xray vision to see through tax disk holder, I'm sure this is probably the norm.
But there's alway one is'nt there'

Sesshoumaru

kwalshe wrote: »

Yeah , that biker that drove between 2 lanes of 120kph moving traffic that I saw on the M9 this morning . He looked like he was weaving between virtual cones between the lanes, was no danger allright. He was doing no less than 150 kmh.
While I'll admit it looked impressive and he looked guite graceful, he was a w€nker.
And unless the speed cameras have xray vision to see through tax disk holder, I'm sure this is probably the norm.
But there's alway one is'nt there'

I had an uninsured car driver put me in intensive care for 2 weeks through careless driving. Does that mean car drivers having no insurance and turning right across the path of oncoming traffic is the norm?

Some bikers are w@nkers and so are some car drivers. No group has exclusivity on w@nkers.

vicwatson

There is a secondary camera that faces the front. It is there to catch deviant motorcyclists.

There is? Link please

The aim of my thread was to query as to whether motorcycles can be caught for speeding like cars by the gatso vans that have been recently introduced not to make this a motorcylcle driver vs car driver fight ! We can have that argument any day of the week. So if you know the answer please tell me.

galwaytt

Viper_JB wrote: »

Does anyone know how many deaths on the roads last year were involving bikes, considering their are far fewer bikes on the road sure the percentages will show that nearly no one riding a bike died last year, and if not then surely from a saftey POV bikes should be clamped down on more so then cars?

There are no statistics to back that up. Indeed, the RSA have a TV ad where even they claim that 60% of bike accidents are caused by car drivers. So, if we remove the motorist..........but of course, that's not realistic. But you can't blame bikes for it.

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK motorbike riders make up around 1% of the traffic but 10% of the fatalaties on our roads.

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd imagine that bikers are relatively unlikely to kill others though, which could arguably make them less of a danger to society than drivers.

...indeed, and you don't find biker's carrying 4/5/6/7/8 passengers - and being in a position to kill that many, either.....

Viper_JB wrote: »

True, but it'd make sense that they would be slightly more concerned about the saftey of bikers as they are far more vunerable on the road espically with high speed factors in play, but it seems like the opposite is true. I know the cameras are there more as a revenue generating exercise, it'd be a bit less annoying if they weren't so blatant about it, ignoring people who are far more at risk on the roads in favour of catching people out.

Again with the fiction on speeding.

Anan1 wrote: »

The right to endanger ones own life is by no means a given in our society - behaviours involving far less risk to society than speeding on a bike are illegal. And the risk to the public posed by speeding bikes, while smaller than cars, is nonetheless real.

It's not smaller, it's miniscule in comparison. Equestrian sport is more common, and more dangerous, but I wouldn't dream to outlaw that, either.

vicwatson wrote: »

The aim of my thread was to query as to whether motorcycles can be caught for speeding like cars by the gatso vans that have been recently introduced not to make this a motorcylcle driver vs car driver fight ! We can have that argument any day of the week. So if you know the answer please tell me.

I believe they can be caught, and that the camera's work both ways. Now, if someone definitively says otherwise.......can I change my riding habit's ?

sleepysniper

Since you'd be travelling towards the camera van, Id imagine you'd have time to slow down before you pass the front of it where/if there is a camera there to get the plate.

BTW car drivers are the biggest risk to bikers imo

vicwatson

I believe they can be caught, and that the camera's work both ways. Now, if someone definitively says otherwise.......can I change my riding habit's ?

Well tbh one should drive with due care and attention anyway, be car or motorcycle

BTW car drivers are the biggest risk to bikers imo

Seperate issue entirely.

"The aim of my thread was to query as to whether motorcycles can be caught for speeding like cars by the gatso vans that have been recently introduced not to make this a motorcylcle driver vs car driver fight ! We can have that argument any day of the week. So if you know the answer please tell me."