Noonan 'not ruling out tax increase'

Count Dooku

The Finance Minister Michael Noonan has suggested the Government's promise not to hike income taxes may change.

Mr Noonan made the comments as he rushes through the Finance Bill in the Dáil.

It is to give effect to the pension fund levy and VAT cuts announced in the jobs initiative.

But during the debate, Minister Noonan appeared to suggest he cannot guarantee no tax hikes in the budget.

Mr Noonan said: "I am not going to rule out any tax initiative, or any tax increase or any tax reduction.

Read more: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/noonan-not-ruling-out-tax-increase-508338.html#ixzz1OmaVlf5c

Finally FG admitted that they will follow FF way in order to increase tax take to 20Bn by 2014
Because Labour ruled out cuts for long term welfare recipients - now it will make more sense to leave work and switch to dole

Nijmegen

What surprises you about this?

Ireland will tax its way through this, and we will go back to the '70's and '80's where the Minister was taking 70p out of every pound you earned in overtime, for example.

later12

Count Dooku wrote: »

Finally FG admitted that they will follow FF way in order to increase tax take to 20Bn by 2014

He did not rule it out - which is not the same as ruling it in.

Because Labour ruled out cuts for long term welfare recipients

They might have ruled out automatic cuts (given the chronic nature of the joblessness situation) but they have agreed to cutting welfare for those who refuse work or training, which appears reasonable.

I probably would support a further cut to welfare in line with previous cuts, presuming nothing dramatic happens with inflation or wages this year. I am sure Minister Noonan has not ruled out cuts to welfare either, at least I should hope not.

fliball123

later10 wrote: »

He did not rule it out - which is not the same as ruling it in.
They might have ruled out automatic cuts (given the chronic nature of the joblessness situation) but they have agreed to cutting welfare for those who refuse work or training, which appears reasonable.

I probably would support a further cut to welfare in line with previous cuts, presuming nothing dramatic happens with inflation or wages this year. I am sure Minister Noonan has not ruled out cuts to welfare either, at least I should hope not.

In fairness I think everything is up for grabs ...If they are continuing with the we will pay back everything mantra

Income/USC tax will increase
property tax will increase
water charges
Dole will be cut
Pensions will be cut (more)
Public sector wage and pensions will be cut
VAT will be increased as well as all other stealth taxes

Its the only way they can do it. They cannot make money out of thin air unfortunately..I dont mind my income tax going up providing the money the gov are spending is cut aswell..

Riskymove

Mr Noonan said: "I am not going to rule out any tax initiative, or any tax increase or any tax reduction.

so he also did not rule out a tax reduction!!

Count Dooku

Riskymove wrote: »

so he also did not rule out a tax reduction!!

He had to soft impact from fact that FG is about to break what they promised before election
I am even not excluding that they can slightly reduce USC and increase tax bands in order to shift burden to "rich"

_Kaiser_

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont mind my income tax going up providing the money the gov are spending is cut aswell..

Well for myself I DO mind my income (what's left of it!) tax going up solely to cover the gambling debts of an elite few - and especially when that money is going out the door to protect German banks from the mess they helped create while our own country and people is brought to the edge of the abyss through increased cuts to essential services.

I'm already considering/looking into emigration and I'll be damned if I pay any more for the above purposes than I already have.

hmmm

If Labour/FG are proposing tax increases, I can only assume that means they are satisfied that the tax currently being collected is well spent on an efficient and cost-effective public service. Because otherwise tax increases would make no sense now would they?

hmmm

Count Dooku wrote: »

I am even not excluding that they can slightly reduce USC and increase tax bands in order to shift burden to "rich"

In other words, shift even more tax onto middle to high income workers who already pay for most of this country. I'm a bit tired of this "tax the (so called) rich" suggestion coming from those who are beneficiaries of other people's education and hard work - get a job or re-educate yourself to get a job if you want to live the comfortable life.

thebman

Reduce rent relief, said it before and I'll say it again until I see it happening.

50% of rents are being paid by the government. Many people who have jobs are entitled to rent relief.

The existing system is entirely unworkable. What the hell is Joan Burton doing since she has been elected. I've not seen her on the news once to announce any real reform in her department.

Nijmegen

hmmm wrote: »

In other words, shift even more tax onto middle to high income workers who already pay for most of this country. I'm a bit tired of this "tax the (so called) rich" suggestion coming from those who are beneficiaries of other people's education and hard work - get a job or re-educate yourself to get a job if you want to live the comfortable life.

Re: Tax the rich, I believe the following from the flat tax thread is a good one to look at:

femur61

Get real we have no money yet we are a still a low tax economy. The FG/L government are in eality pupets to the EU/IMF. Why are people complaing? Did common sense prevail and did people really not suss these things out themselves prior to the election.

Count Dooku

femur61 wrote: »

Get real we have no money yet we are a still a low tax economy. The FG/L government are in eality pupets to the EU/IMF. Why are people complaing? Did common sense prevail and did people really not suss these things out themselves prior to the election.

Do we have any alternative for them and other left wing populists?

RichardAnd

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do we have any alternative for them and other left wing populists?

IF I didn't live in Ireland, I almost would have liked to see the looney lefties get in. If nothing else, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened. I'd liken it to hurricane rip a city apart

Tora Bora

thebman wrote: »

Reduce rent relief, said it before and I'll say it again until I see it happening.

50% of rents are being paid by the government. Many people who have jobs are entitled to rent relief.

The existing system is entirely unworkable. What the hell is Joan Burton doing since she has been elected. I've not seen her on the news once to announce any real reform in her department.

What did Joan of arc Burton ever do, except WHINE, in that rightously indignant tone of hers, which she shares with her boss gilmore.
Now that she and he, have proper jobs to do, they are both proving totally inept, and have even lost their inane ability to whine, in rightous indignation. Tossers.

Only minister in this administration showing the kind of form, which indicates he may leave a positive mark behind is Rory Quinn.

rumour

femur61 wrote: »

Get real we have no money yet we are a still a low tax economy.

Regarding your statement about a low tax economy, thats relative and I suggest you are using it in selective terms. My perspective, when all sources of taxation are included in addition to returns for paying tax we are overtaxed. Eg the same amount of tax in Germany gets me three hospital consultants (80Kx3) whereas here I get one. The need is relatively similar so we are overtaxed to provide one hospital consultant.

femur61 wrote: »

FG/L government are in eality pupets to the EU/IMF.

This is not necessarily the case. The reason we are in this position is our refusal to balance our books. Spend 50bn and earn 30bn. Placing ourselves here has been a conscious choice of our government. We could balance the deficit and have no need for borrowing. Why is that so unpalatable?

femur61 wrote: »

are people complaing? Did common sense prevail and did people really not suss these things out themselves prior to the election.

I'm not sure what your getting at here. Are you suggesting that when politicians on the run up to an election stand for certain things we should somehow intrinsically know that the intent is to do something else?
It is perhaps not an economical issue and more to do with character. If you give your word to do something and get elected on this basis, then choose to do something else entirely it would be an understatement to say this undermines the democratic process. In this country we are supposed to ignore the fact that our government are doing something entirely different from what they were elected to do. My view on this is that they should resign if they had any honor. I guess I'll wait a long time for that to happen.

It supports my view that the political class in Ireland is exactly that, a distinct class that sees itself in a position of privilege where it is simply entitled to derive its income and status by taking other peoples hard earned cash. FF/lab/FG they are all the same.

Such is our predicament I'm inclined to get on board with Morgan Kelly, this form of democracy has a limited life span.

rumour

Tora Bora wrote: »

Only minister in this administration showing the kind of form, which indicates he may leave a positive mark behind is Rory Quinn.

I agree, it may be a bit early to judge but I like Leo, at the very least he has started out honestly.

Lets see how much Gilmore and Kenny get to work on him.

careca11

later10 wrote: »

He did not rule it out - which is not the same as ruling it in.

in irish politics , even the dogs in the street know thats the Q for going ahead , always has been the way , always will be the way

later10 wrote: »

I probably would support a further cut to welfare in line with previous cuts, presuming nothing dramatic happens with inflation or wages this year. I am sure Minister Noonan has not ruled out cuts to welfare either, at least I should hope not.

the gove haven't the balls to tackle the PS pay, pensions and expenses (plus they would be hitting the Labour vote and that won't go down well with Gilmore and friends ) , so they will take the easy option and just cut social welfare.
welfare cuts are needs ,



water rates
households charges
more mortgage interest rate hikes
Gas/electricity due to increase in October
food getting more expensive
insurance of alltypes hitting the roof,
THIS IS ALL GOING TO END IN TEARS

COYW

careca11 wrote: »

the gove haven't the balls to tackle the PS pay, pensions and expenses (plus they would be hitting the Labour vote and that won't go down well with Gilmore and friends ) , so they will take the easy option and just cut social welfare.
welfare cuts are needs ,



water rates
households charges
more mortgage interest rate hikes
Gas/electricity due to increase in October
food getting more expensive
insurance of alltypes hitting the roof,
THIS IS ALL GOING TO END IN TEARS

It will be the middle class worker who will bare the brunt of it all. Public sector to a lesser extent as the unions will fight hard for them. I don't see any respectable reductions in welfare. By respectable, I would be talking about bring welfare down to the levels in the UK.

fliball123

COYW wrote: »

It will be the middle class worker who will bare the brunt of it all. Public sector to a lesser extent as the unions will fight hard for them. I don't see any respectable reductions in welfare. By respectable, I would be talking about bring welfare down to the levels in the UK.

Just on the welfare front..I find it hard to fathom that people I know who were left a house and on social and creaming it esb, heat allowence etc...and have absolutely no intension of working as she has a kid....These people should be forced to sell there house/appart and use the money to live off..I am sick of paying for free loaders and inempt services in this country..As a previous poster pointed out we are not a low tax economy when you take all the stealth taxes into acount and for what you get in return of services..As I stated I dont mind paying a bit more in tax providing the spend is cut and cut deep

thebman

careca11 wrote: »

the gove haven't the balls to tackle the PS pay, pensions and expenses (plus they would be hitting the Labour vote and that won't go down well with Gilmore and friends ) , so they will take the easy option and just cut social welfare.
welfare cuts are needs ,

I'm wondering along with many people I presume if this coalition will collapse within its first year or two!! :eek:

I'm also wondering if FG with work with FF if it does and then we will start seeing cuts I imagine.

Idbatterim

In other words, shift even more tax onto middle to high income workers who already pay for most of this country. I'm a bit tired of this "tax the (so called) rich" suggestion coming from those who are beneficiaries of other people's education and hard work - get a job or re-educate yourself to get a job if you want to live the comfortable life.

great post! Im happy to make more tax, once 2 things happen 1. those taking the p*ss on welfare are dealt with once and for all, 2. the PS is reformed totally and pay, pensions etc brought back to sane levels...

Raskolnikov

It amazes me how people can't seem to grasp simple arithmetic. We are spending €50 billion, we are taking in €30 billion, leaving a clear €20 billion gap. People really need to get their heads around the notion that €20 billion is a massive amount of money. When you consider that only about 2 million people in this country pay tax any remotely significant amount of income tax, you would need to cut to take €10,000 of each and every taxpayer to bridge the deficit. That's not a one time cost either, it's a cost that you will bear every year that the deficit remains at €20 billion.

Good loser

Re potential social welfare and PS wage cuts, I notice the latest inflation figures show the cost of living is now 4% lower than it was in Nov 2008.
Most semi state wages have increased since 2008 by the two/three tranches of the last wage agreement.
Could anyone quantify their relative improvement in wages/salaries?
Have they contributed anything towards correcting the budget deficit?

femur61

rumour wrote: »

Eg the same amount of tax in Germany gets me three hospital consultants (80Kx3) whereas here I get one. The need is relatively similar so we are overtaxed to provide one hospital consultant.


This is not necessarily the case. The reason we are in this position is our refusal to balance our books. Spend 50bn and earn 30bn. Placing ourselves here has been a conscious choice of our government. We could balance the deficit and have no need for borrowing. Why is that so unpalatable?


.

You have hit the nail on the head here we are only increasing taxes to cover the 20bn deficit to pay the overinflated PS. I am well aware off what nurses/doctors/teachers in the UK get as having worked there for a number of years. When people realise the reason we are increasing taxes is too pay the PS pay, and I know social welfare is high but so is cost of living. In the UK they don't have to buy knew books every few years, you get subsidised school lunches and never have to pay for the doctor and lots of prescriptions are free.

Dannyboy83

Not ruling out tax increases (because they're not ruling in expenditure cuts)
i.e. we're going to tax you because we refuse to cut.

After we default, they'll turn around and say it was all Labour's fault - Labour threatened to end the coalition if we cut.......bla bla bla

thebman

Yes, must email the FG members in my area to let them know my dis-satisfaction before the budget if that is going to be what happens.