Since when is Christianity about worldly sucess?

PatricaMcKay

Looking at the (highly depressing) Catholic versus Protestant thread and the thread about someone on China saying that the west's sucess was down to Christianity, I have to ask where in the New Testament is wealth and power in this world taken to be a blessing? Did not Christ say that His Kingdom is not of this world?

"24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Luke Chapter 6.

Bannasidhe

PatricaMcKay wrote: »

Looking at the (highly depressing) Catholic versus Protestant thread and the thread about someone on China saying that the west's sucess was down to Christianity, I have to ask where in the New Testament is wealth and power in this world taken to be a blessing? Did not Christ say that His Kingdom is not of this world?

"24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Luke Chapter 6.

Sadly Europeans failed to take Luke's words into account when using the excuse of saving people's souls to justify the imperialist expansions and wholesale plundering of natural resources in the 16th and 19th centuries.

Manach

May I point out that Europeans during that time period where the most successful at exploiting resources, but during other time-periods other civilisations were equally adept at ruining their environment and that of others. The most obvious example being Easter Island.

A charge that has been levelled at Christians is that they are too concerned with the next rather that this world. Hence the lack of progress on issues that would better society. By attaching importance to moderate societal wealth generation and its fair distribution to working classes was one of the key factors in the rise of many Catholic centralist parties during the 19th Century. (the factoids I picked up during a history course, )

PatricaMcKay

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sadly Europeans failed to take Luke's words into account when using the excuse of saving people's souls to justify the imperialist expansions and wholesale plundering of natural resources in the 16th and 19th centuries.

Exactly, the "superiority" (in material terms) of the west is down to a will to power that manifested itself very often in the out right plunder of resources and enslavement of peoples which wasnt very Christian at all.

wolfsbane

PatricaMcKay wrote: »

Looking at the (highly depressing) Catholic versus Protestant thread and the thread about someone on China saying that the west's sucess was down to Christianity, I have to ask where in the New Testament is wealth and power in this world taken to be a blessing? Did not Christ say that His Kingdom is not of this world?

"24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Luke Chapter 6.

Yes, it is quite wrong to think financial success indicates a spiritual blessing.

It may do - as with Abraham and many other great saints since. But most of this world's rich and powerful are not saints at all, nor do they behave like it. The prosperous of this world range from those who use good means to acquire their wealth, through those who use both good and evil means, to those using mostly evil means.

Good means include hard work, thrift, intelligent business. Evil means includes theft, plunder, exploitation of the weak. Western nations have employed both freely.

Now if our Chinese friend meant that Christian morality inculcated hard work, thrift and intelligent business, as opposed to laziness, squandering and reckless business - then he had a point. I'm pretty sure he did not mean Christianity encouraged invasion and exploitation of weaker nations, a big part of Western 'success'.

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1 Timothy 6:17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

strobe

PatricaMcKay wrote: »

"24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Luke Chapter 6.

What would be the opinion of people on the suggestion that Jesus spoke this in relation to specific people at a specific time? Like that He was 'playing to His audience'. Calling out certain people in the crowd that had benefited in that time (the time of the Pharisees and Roman's power) in relation to how they had come to their wealth?

A kind of "I see ye standing there lads, looking all innocent, I know what ye's have been at before I rode in to town" thing.

Maybe a cloaked accusation of collaboration?

PDN

PatricaMcKay wrote: »

Looking at the (highly depressing) Catholic versus Protestant thread and the thread about someone on China saying that the west's sucess was down to Christianity, I have to ask where in the New Testament is wealth and power in this world taken to be a blessing? Did not Christ say that His Kingdom is not of this world?

"24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Luke Chapter 6.

Since when is Christianity about worldly success? I would say since the 4th Century when a persecuted and countercultural movement was seduced by the blandishments of the Emperor Constantine and allowed the Church to become paired with the Roman empire.

But the more we discuss that, the more likely we will be to end up back in the Protestant/Catholic debate thread!