House or Garage First?

Shoe Lover

Myself and OH are hoping to start building a house soon. We are developing our own homemade plans at the min and hoping to get to an architect in the next few weeks so that we can start applying for PP.

Our current plan is to buy a mobile home and live on site while we save some money - not looking forward to this too much But the OH reckons we would be better to build the garage first and put an appartment in the garage that we could live in while saving for/building the main house. Has anyone does this before and what are the arguements for and against? Apologies, if this sounds like a silly q - I've never built a house before and I don't know anyone who has built their own house

Thanks in advance!

bigneacy

Shoe Lover wrote: »

Myself and OH are hoping to start building a house soon. We are developing our own homemade plans at the min and hoping to get to an architect in the next few weeks so that we can start applying for PP.

Our current plan is to buy a mobile home and live on site while we save some money - not looking forward to this too much But the OH reckons we would be better to build the garage first and put an appartment in the garage that we could live in while saving for/building the main house. Has anyone does this before and what are the arguements for and against? Apologies, if this sounds like a silly q - I've never built a house before and I don't know anyone who has built their own house

Thanks in advance!

Seems like a good idea,

I mean an apartment above a garage is going to be a useful feature for when the house is built - good to have extra room or even potential for use as an au pair house, rental property or teenagers room - or even your argument room - he gets sent there when you've been arguing(!)

Why do you have a hesitation? Is it financial or just that you don't see any need?

Quazzie

I had the same idea at one stage, but i went against it for one main reason. If at the end of the build I have to start cutting some corners due to financial constraints or by going over budget then I would rather cut corners on the shed than on the house.

Shoe Lover

bigneacy wrote: »

Seems like a good idea,

I mean an apartment above a garage is going to be a useful feature for when the house is built - good to have extra room or even potential for use as an au pair house, rental property or teenagers room - or even your argument room - he gets sent there when you've been arguing(!)

Why do you have a hesitation? Is it financial or just that you don't see any need?

I'm hesitant on it mainly because I'm unsure if it is a good idea. I'm afraid that it will delay the build of the actual house, that it will be a waste of money, or that we would get stuck in a rut living in this appartment that the house would never get built! Although I do see your point on the extra room! I'm also worried that it could give the council reason to reject our plans. It's mainly fear of the unknown, if I'm honest!

kayos

I thought planning departments had a real gripe against people turning there garage into living spaces? I could be totally wrong but its something to check.

The main reason I could see for building a garage first is for secure storage of materials during the build.

rayjdav

OP,
You will need planning technically for the mobile on the site. Also there would be the issue of effluent disposal from the mobile whilst you live in it, ie you will need to have your foul treatment system in place prior to moving into mobile.
As noted above, LA's usually stipulate in a grant of permission that any detached garage is NOT to be used for habitable purpose. Only real chance is if it were deemed a granny flat, but these usually have to be attached to the main dwelling and easily transferred back into the main house after the demise of the occupant:D..
Also as said too you will end up pumping much needed €€€ into the temporary apartment... Why? Cheaper in the long run to rent/family than this option, imho.

Shoe Lover

rayjdav wrote: »

OP,
You will need planning technically for the mobile on the site. Also there would be the issue of effluent disposal from the mobile whilst you live in it, ie you will need to have your foul treatment system in place prior to moving into mobile.
As noted above, LA's usually stipulate in a grant of permission that any detached garage is NOT to be used for habitable purpose. Only real chance is if it were deemed a granny flat, but these usually have to be attached to the main dwelling and easily transferred back into the main house after the demise of the occupant:D..
Also as said too you will end up pumping much needed €€€ into the temporary apartment... Why? Cheaper in the long run to rent/family than this option, imho.

I hadn't realised you need PP for a mobile home Thanks for making me aware of that. Would you apply for PP for the mobile separetly or as part of the overall plans? We had kind of hoped to be in the mobile while we were working on the plans so that we could be saving while waiting on the PP, but at the same time, I don't want to have to pay two fees!

Mellor

Shoe Lover wrote: »

I hadn't realised you need PP for a mobile home Thanks for making me aware of that. Would you apply for PP for the mobile separetly or as part of the overall plans? We had kind of hoped to be in the mobile while we were working on the plans so that we could be saving while waiting on the PP, but at the same time, I don't want to have to pay two fees!

Yeah PP required for mobile, you can't just park up in a field and live there, regardless if you own it or not (the reasons are obviousi imagine)

As for having it as part of the one PP, yes it is possible. But the downside there is that you can't move in until everything is approved, which will take 3 months to a year.

Lodging them separately will incur two fees, but this cost is only going to run to 200 euro or so, hardly a major cost given the overall project.

Shoe Lover

I suppose you are right, Mellor. We might lodge them separately then. We are going to organise a meeting with the planning office in the next few weeks to see what the best process is. The couple who built a house across from where ours will hopefully be got their PP in about 8 weeks, so we will chat to them as well and see if they have any tips.

We also went to see a few mobiles yesterday and found a lovely one, ready to move into. But we will have to wait a while and organise the formalities first!

ShiverinEskimo

The planning authorities have to respond to you with 8 weeks with either permission/rejection or request for further information/clarification or conditions. Once supplied they have another month to reply to you with same. It can drag out if the request for information is repeated again and again.

That's how our Architect has told us it will go. This is the Louth CoCo though but as far as I know it's a standard thing. If you have an Architect lined up he'll probably be able to rhyme off the process and give you the best advice regarding house vs garage etc.

As someone else said though I'd prefer to build the house with the view to building the garage afterwards because if something happens cost-wise you can sacrifice/postpone the garage in favour of completing the house.

Shoe Lover

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

The planning authorities have to respond to you with 8 weeks with either permission/rejection or request for further information/clarification or conditions. Once supplied they have another month to reply to you with same. It can drag out if the request for information is repeated again and again.

That's how our Architect has told us it will go. This is the Louth CoCo though but as far as I know it's a standard thing. If you have an Architect lined up he'll probably be able to rhyme off the process and give you the best advice regarding house vs garage etc.

As someone else said though I'd prefer to build the house with the view to building the garage afterwards because if something happens cost-wise you can sacrifice/postpone the garage in favour of completing the house.

Thanks for that ShiverinEskimo! It'll be Louth Coco that we are applying to too! Maybe you could pm me your architect details, if you wouldn't mind? I can see your point on doing the garage second, but if we do that, would we not need to have a container to store stuff in during the build? And that also costs money. I suppose it is a matter of weighing up the costs of both options and working out which is the best for us!

The way we did this was to apply for permission with the mobile home marked on the plans as a temporary "site hut", we also installed the sewerage treatment system and had site electrics installed at a very early stage in the build (after the walls were up to roof level).

Then moved the mobile home on to the site and moved in before continuing the build.

I bought a large steel shed for storage as well, the garage was built last.

I do agree that building the garage first for storage is a good idea, as explained above not such a good idea for accomodation.

rayjdav

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

The planning authorities have to respond to you with 8 weeks with either permission/rejection or request for further information/clarification or conditions. Once supplied they have another month to reply to you with same. It can drag out if the request for information is repeated again and again.

Just to clarify that point, the Planners only request Further Information (RFI) once. They can then request a Clarification of Further Information once, but only to clarify on information that was originally requested under the RFI initially, nothing new. It is up to the client and agent to satisfy themselves, and ultimatley the Council, that the information submitted under the RFI response is adequate to answer the RFI.

Milk & Honey

It sounds like a mad bad idea. There is almost as much work in kitting out an apartment as a house. If you put in proper wiring and sanitation and have a water supply you are in effect building a house followed by building another house another house. The only saving if any will be the cost of rent. the downside is loss of time and planning issues and complications. Rents are now cheap in most areas.

Shoe Lover

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It sounds like a mad bad idea. There is almost as much work in kitting out an apartment as a house. If you put in proper wiring and sanitation and have a water supply you are in effect building a house followed by building another house another house. The only saving if any will be the cost of rent. the downside is loss of time and planning issues and complications. Rents are now cheap in most areas.

Yeah, we aren't going down that route, I was just asking for the advice to see if anyone had done it. We are now going down the mobile home route Just need to get plans organised first

Blitzkrieger

A lot of people in the 'what would you do differently' thread suggested building the garage first so that you can use it for storage while you build. I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to make it liveable while you build the house. As other people have said, if you were going to make it a fully fledged granny flat, by the time you have cooking, washing, bathroom, etc. facilities in there you are effectively building two houses.

As an aside, has anybody built an attached garage before the house? When I build my own house I want a sink, proper insulation, heating and a lift in there but I also want it attached to the house. I'm guessing a good architect or site manager could plan a way to build the garage as soon as possible, while putting in any pipes or electrical conduits that I'll need later?

Shoe Lover

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

As an aside, has anybody built an attached garage before the house? When I build my own house I want a sink, proper insulation, heating and a lift in there but I also want it attached to the house.

A lift - sounds interesting!

I don't think OH cares what is in our garage as long as it is big enough to store a good few cars plus junk and has a pit in it too. I would like to put a toliet and shower in it so that he doesn't have to come into the house covered in oil and car bits

badgerhowlin

I have had a lot of friends that have built their house 1st and said they would build there garage after, but they never did.
I have had other friends that built their garage first and used it as a storage shed while building the house and then have never parked their cars in it cause it went from a building storage shed to a storage shed.

Almost all of them said that they didnt really need a garage, they just thought it would be nice to have one!

Im not sure how much it would cost to get a garage converted so you could live in it maybe 20k. To me that is too much to justify

As for living in a mobile(bout one for €2500, 2 panel heaters €750, stove €950).
I have been living in one since August of last year. They are not as bad as you might think. We got panel heaters in for the bed room and setting room, and in December we got a stove in for the sitting room. No we all know how cold the winter was last year. When the stove was lighting the mobile was 30+ but in the morning it was more like 4(with frozen water!), until the panel heaters went on and then it got up to 10-12.

As for water, electricity, sewage, well we are cheating there a little, we tapped into my parents. Paying for the electricity(we have a meter reading how much we use) and a pile running from the well to the mobile. The sewage is piped to their tank.

And I will be staying in it till I build my house, and by the way the banks are at the moment it will be a LONG TIME

Shoe Lover

Would you mind if I asked you where you bought the mobile from? You can pm me if you don't want to tell the whole world

badgerhowlin

I got it from a caravan park near Rosslare.
I still have his card some where. I will look for it tonight and will post it tomorrow, if i am allowed. Can someone tell me if i can put up his name and number?

Quazzie

seanhowlin wrote: »

Can someone tell me if i can put up his name and number?

You are better off sending it via PM as per the Charter. If anyone else wants it they can ask for a copy of the PM here.

muffler

Quazzie wrote: »

You are better off sending it via PM as per the Charter. If anyone else wants it they can ask for a copy of the PM here.

I'm eying up my replacement after I retire

Jo King

It is far more sensible to build everything at the same time. Tradesmen come and go off the site as different jobs are done. It is better to get all of one thing done when the tradesman is on site. Dig foundations for the shed and the house at the same time. Pour foundations at the same time. There might be some advantage in roofing the shed before the main house.

Shoe Lover

seanhowlin wrote: »

I got it from a caravan park near Rosslare.
I still have his card some where. I will look for it tonight and will post it tomorrow, if i am allowed. Can someone tell me if i can put up his name and number?

Hmm, Rosslare might be a bit far for us, we are in Louth

Jo King wrote: »

It is far more sensible to build everything at the same time. Tradesmen come and go off the site as different jobs are done. It is better to get all of one thing done when the tradesman is on site. Dig foundations for the shed and the house at the same time. Pour foundations at the same time. There might be some advantage in roofing the shed before the main house.

This is true too. I suppose we will have to meet with whichever builder we go to and get his opinion on it. It won't be for a long time yet though - need to get plans and PP in place first!

Jo King

Jo King wrote: »

It is far more sensible to build everything at the same time. Tradesmen come and go off the site as different jobs are done. It is better to get all of one thing done when the tradesman is on site. Dig foundations for the shed and the house at the same time. Pour foundations at the same time. There might be some advantage in roofing the shed before the main house.

In hindsight, I would have built an integrated garage at the same time as the rest of the house.

rayjdav

Shoe Lover wrote: »

This is true too. I suppose we will have to meet with whichever builder we go to and get his opinion on it. It won't be for a long time yet though - need to get plans and PP in place first!

With all due respect, the builders opinion means jack squat tbh. Whoever designs/oversee's your build will advise you and then the builder should do what he is told to do. Once again, the builder will only tell you what you want to hear/make him $$$$$...;)

sydthebeat

It would be cheaper to buy a second hand mobile home and park on site for the duration of the build, ad then sell off again once not required. Remember if this is what you are doing, to apply for this alongside your planning permission for your dwelling.

if you build the garage as habitable its money you may never get back in value.... you wont get planning permission to use it as an independent habitable unit.

Shoe Lover

rayjdav wrote: »

With all due respect, the builders opinion means jack squat tbh. Whoever designs/oversee's your build will advise you and then the builder should do what he is told to do. Once again, the builder will only tell you what you want to hear/make him $$$$$...;)

Yes, I know that. I meant builder as in the person who will oversee the project not just lay the bricks down. I'm new to this, it'll take me a while to get the lingo right

badgerhowlin

Shoe Lover wrote: »

Hmm, Rosslare might be a bit far for us, we are in Louth

Well he does say "Distance no object" But it would cost a bit alright to transport it up to you.

It might be better for you to try a place closer to you but i have sent you on his name and number just in case you want to call and ask anyway.

Shoe Lover

seanhowlin wrote: »

Shoe Lover wrote: »

Hmm, Rosslare might be a bit far for us, we are in Louth

Well he does say "Distance no object" But it would cost a bit alright to transport it up to you.

It might be better for you to try a place closer to you but i have sent you on his name and number just in case you want to call and ask anyway.

Thanks for that Sean. We got a fella up from the ESB last night to look at the site and luckily, we'll only need one additional pole but will obviously have to pay for four or five depending on how many the neighbours had to get when they built their house. The only prob is that they won't connect to a mobile home so it looks like, unless we have the mortgage approved, that we will have to build the garage first and then connect the ESB to the mobile from the garage. But it's a long road before we get to that stage!