To All Promoters

weemate

It has been discussed on this forum among others about the standard of mis-matching on shows.mostly the issue of junior v senior match ups in truth but it has been brought to my attention about guys with little or no experience being matched against guys with a decent record.
One show at the minute has a guy who has only a few weeks training behind him taking on a much more experienced opponent at pro level this was changed to c class after protest.
This is madness and will just heap more misery on our chosen sport.
Im wondering if it would be possible for you to make your cards a bit more transparent when you post them on forums.........or at least be a bit more careful when matching.When cards get publicsed in future,I will be taking more interest in them and if there are serious mis matches I will be advising the promoter/coaches and also the refs/officials in charge.It only takes one accident.....
Peter

fightireland

Fair point and your intent is welcome in my opinion... but really.. you can't prevent accidents (as you said) in that way.

If both fighters are in agreement I think it's fair game - you're talking about fighting here after all.

If I was to offered to fight Overeem tomorrow I'd know what I'm in for - it would be my decision - maybe it doesn't make sense to have a go at promoters.

tommyl2010

have to disagree with you on this fightireland. Yes accidents are inevitable and will happen, but promoters and officials have a duty of care, and although it is 'fighting' its our sport and we need to do as much as possible to keep participants safe to ensure the progression of the sport isn't marred by some promoter who decides he would rather sell an extra 50 tickets than ensure he has a fair match up.

It is something that disappeared for a while in my opinion, i do think promoters try their hardest for fair match ups but its something that is slowly creeping back in.

KDavern

I agree with fightIreland..If a fighter thinks he's good enough to fight someone then let him..after all fighters do have a mind of there own and know what there getting themselves in for..it's a fight at the end of the day.

tommyl2010

KDavern wrote: »

I agree with fightIreland..If a fighter thinks he's good enough to fight someone then let him..after all fighters do have a mind of there own and know what there getting themselves in for..it's a fight at the end of the day.

fighters need to be protected from themselves if they want to do this as a career.

fightireland

tommyl2010 wrote: »

have to disagree with you on this fightireland. Yes accidents are inevitable and will happen, but promoters and officials have a duty of care, and although it is 'fighting' its our sport and we need to do as much as possible to keep participants safe to ensure the progression of the sport isn't marred by some promoter who decides he would rather sell an extra 50 tickets than ensure he has a fair match up.

It is something that disappeared for a while in my opinion, i do think promoters try their hardest for fair match ups but its something that is slowly creeping back in.

You know what - I totally get your point and I can't disagree with you on anything you said. There is a duty of care and I guess I got the wrong end of the stick and dont want to come across as insensitive or divisive.

Something p&&d me off last week in the gym re: a fighter complaining about being hurt via fighting and I dived in a bit there.

slapbangwallop

KDavern wrote: »

I agree with fightIreland..If a fighter thinks he's good enough to fight someone then let him..after all fighters do have a mind of there own and know what there getting themselves in for..it's a fight at the end of the day.

Nonsense.

Fighters are brave mofos!

They will fight when sick, injured and outclassed.

They need to be protected from themselves.

Its a sport!

cowzerp

100% agreed Peter, the only way i get mismatches on my show is when giving wrong information from clubs and that is rare as i trust clubs i deal with

i have been offered opponents for my lads in the past been told there debuts and doing mma 1 year when it turns out they forgot to mention the 10 years Boxing, Kickboxing etc!!

KDavern

@slapbangwallop am I not entitled to an opinion..are u going to help stop mismatched fights?fighters do have to be protected deffinetly but if a fighter believes he can beat another fighter then who is anyone to try and stop him..if he beat the fighter would it still be a mismatch or an upset.

cowzerp

Well matched fighters rarely get hurt, Mismatched fighters is the most dangerous thing you can do in this sport, Fighters ego's of how great they are should not come into it, Coaches opinions mean more to me as they can see from the outside.

Mouthalmighty

cowzerp wrote: »

Well matched fighters rarely get hurt, Mismatched fighters is the most dangerous thing you can do in this sport, Fighters ego's of how great they are should not come into it, Coaches opinions mean more to me as they can see from the outside.

Well said Paul, to even think about fighting a serious level of self confidence is necessary, this may lead one to think they're better than what they are then when they get outclassed in a fight they don't have the skills to protect themselves. This can lead to serious injury.

Coaches know best if they're worth their salt.

From a spectator perspective I find it actually uncomfortable viewing to see a lad/lady get destroyed in a mismatched fight. I mean people don't go to shows & fork out cash to see beatings dished out (Supermacs at 3 in the morning is free for that) they want to see a contest.

Ultimately mismatched fights hurt the sport on a few different levels

boxer.fan

Is it not the responsibility of the coach / manager to ensure their fighter is fairly matched? IMO it would be highly irresponsible for a coach to allow a fight take place without knowing the opponent's experience & record.

For all the faults most other martial arts have, most of them operate a licencing system that has a detailed fight record and also a renewable medical record that contains information about medical suspensions etc.

mmmm...not sure

boxer.fan wrote: »

Is it not the responsibility of the coach / manager to ensure their fighter is fairly matched? IMO it would be highly irresponsible for a coach to allow a fight take place without knowing the opponent's experience & record.

For all the faults most other martial arts have, most of them operate a licencing system that has a detailed fight record and also a renewable medical record that contains information about medical suspensions etc.

I 100% agree with this post surely its the coach/manager that is responsible, do promoters not pass a name onto the coach and he will say yes or no if he wants his fighters to fight the other fighter, i would hope no coach would send his fighter into a fight without doing some homework on their opponent or do they simply take the word of the promoter

slapbangwallop

KDavern wrote: »

@slapbangwallop am I not entitled to an opinion..are u going to help stop mismatched fights? fighters do have to be protected deffinetly but if a fighter believes he can beat another fighter then who is anyone to try and stop him..if he beat the fighter would it still be a mismatch or an upset.

You are fully entitled to your opinion, but if you share it you should be prepared to have it shot down for the dangerous misguided folly that it is.

Forgive me for know being too offay with the Irish MMA scene but is there no sanctioning body, no one to veto a fight.


No, I am not going to stop mismatches as I do not have any fiduciary relationship with any fighters at the moment but if I did - I would!

I am not saying boxing is any better and there are mismatches every week, but my point is that the welfare of a fighter should not be left solely to the fighter.

A strong team including trainer, corner, manager and promoter (and sometimes family) is required were possible. Each owe a Duty of Care to the fighter to ensure that they navigate their way as safely as possible through their careers.

One way of ensuring this is the use of weight classifications, this goes a long way to avoiding mismatches but the more sutble art of matchmaking is also required. It's not BKB.

p.s. Cowzer, I was chatting to Frankie Gavin the other day after a spar with Dean Byrne and he was telling me about his fight with you. Passes on his regards.

Mellor

cowzerp wrote: »

100% agreed Peter, the only way i get mismatches on my show is when giving wrong information from clubs and that is rare as i trust clubs i deal with

i have been offered opponents for my lads in the past been told there debuts and doing mma 1 year when it turns out they forgot to mention the 10 years Boxing, Kickboxing etc!!

Which is disgraceful imo

KDavern wrote: »

@slapbangwallop am I not entitled to an opinion..are u going to help stop mismatched fights?fighters do have to be protected deffinetly but if a fighter believes he can beat another fighter then who is anyone to try and stop him..if he beat the fighter would it still be a mismatch or an upset.

It's nothing to be with belief. Does any fighter enter the cage without the belief he can win. I really hope not.
But just because he believes it doesn't make it ok.

If the coach knows, or even has a inkling, that the proposed opponent is too far above or below in terms of ability then of course he should say it. He's the one that has the objective view, it's simple impossible for anyfighter to look at himself objectively in terms of opponents

KDavern

Ok I agree with all of you and not trying to start any arguments;) but can anyone answer this if the mismatched fighter beat the other guy would it still be a mismatch or would it be an upset?just for the record I'm saying it's NOT right to mismatch fighters?

cowzerp

KDavern wrote: »

Ok I agree with all of you and not trying to start any arguments;) but can anyone answer this if the mismatched fighter beat the other guy would it still be a mismatch or would it be an upset?just for the record I'm saying it's NOT right to mismatch fighters?

Depends, was it a lucky punch, did injury occur

or was it actually a good match up that records did not do them justice.

if the opponent holds there on then maybe the promoter and coaches all done there job, good match up does not necessarily mean same record

Training experience would be high on the list as is stuff like is 1 a lad who was tough form day 1 v a lad who would not have been-this happens all the time on debuts and if coaches where straight and just said this lad is tough or this lad is not overly tough they can be matched like for like, as they gain experience the skill takes over and thats the key to matching.

RoboRat

Personally I think the onus is on the coaches and managers to look after their fighters because they know them best. You could have a fighter that is relatively new to the sport but has really taken to it and is a complete natural versus a guy who's being doing it a few years and isn't that talented, on paper its a mismatch but it might not be.

The promoter has none of this information when it comes to relatively new fighters so its unfair to place this on their shoulder. If a fighter wants a fight and his coach agrees, then the fight should take place.

Any coach worth their salt will know their fighter, have seen them fighting with more experienced fighters in their team and know where they stand. When i was younger I played footie in England and when it came to making a decision to stay or go home, I sat down with the manager and he told me what he thought and to this day, although I was disappointed, I am eternally grateful as I know that he had my best interests and future in mind.