Asked for VAT five months later - out of the blue

Zonua

I got a call today from a printer, who I placed an order online with in January (also received the order in January, and was a satisfied customer at the time). The printer, who are based in the UK, claim that as I did not pay VAT at the time, I owe 40euro.

I am not registered for VAT, as I earn less than the threshold.

At the time, I paid the correct amount, as far as I was concerned, and I have a digital copy of the invoice in my inbox, which states:
Total Price: 200euro
Total Price + VAT: 200euro.

I was asked to pay immediately with my credit card, but I said I would need some time to think. The lady on the phone told me that she would report the matter to revenue, who will say the printers are right, and will insist I pay this amount.

Am I obligated to pay? I feel that I should not pay the amount in 40euro, if I charged a customer the 'wrong' amount, I wouldn't dream of calling them five months later and asking for extra money. I believe that, this is their problem, and I am not obligated to pay, legally or morally . . . but I wanted to check this up.

antoinolachtnai

There could be a lot of arguing about this one because it might depend on exact circumstances of sale.

I think it boils down to the printer making a mistake.

It sounds like they have not sent you a revised invoice. This puts them in a weak position because they are making a demand without issuing an invoice.

You could suggest that they get the HM Customs and Excise give you a shout.

There is no possibility you gave the printer the impression that you were VAT registered in Ireland? It would be a problem if you did.

Zonua

Thanks for the reply.

They sent me a revised invoice yesterday, I guess after they rang me.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is no possibility you gave the printer the impression that you were VAT registered in Ireland? It would be a problem if you did.

No, I did not give them that impression. They told me that some of their products have VAT, some do not, so that on their online ordering system, mistakes are made. It is absolutely their fault, which the lady on the phone admitted to.
At the time I presumed I was charged VAT/the correct amount.

antoinolachtnai

Did you pay in advance on the basis of a fixed quotation?

Fogra

They know they're in the wrong to be demanding this payment and I agree that they should have issued you with a revised invoice. The printers are just trying to claw back as much as they can get from a very weak half year income if you ask me. Chancers! I run a design business and if I had made that same mistake with one of my clients I certainly would not be asking for the extra.

shaunandelly

Sounds like somebody uncovered an accounting mistake at their end. Or they've been caught out on a vat inspection. If you have an original invoice stating 200 inc vat then I guess they'll have to nett the vat out of their end won't they.

Zonua

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Did you pay in advance on the basis of a fixed quotation?

Yes - it's online ordering system, I paid with my credit card when placing the order, and there was no hint of future extra charges.

Zonua

Fogra wrote: »

I run a design business and if I had made that same mistake with one of my clients I certainly would not be asking for the extra.

I totally agree with this. In this case, the prints were for a customer who asked me to help find a printers. If I have to pay the extra 40euro now, I wouldn't dream of asking my client for this money now.

antoinolachtnai

Then they are on a very weak footing indeed. You would likely have given the work to someone else if their price had been that much higher.

neris

Same thing happened to me few years ago with a printer who did posters for me. Got an email a week after paying saying they never charged vat and I could ring accounts. Never rang them and never heard from them again. Its their fault they never charged you. They gave you a price and you paid it. Would you go back and rebill a client with a higher amount because you screwed up?

Axwell

Zonua wrote: »

I am not registered for VAT, as I earn less than the threshold.

That bit is irrelevant to the issue, you pay VAT on items whether you are registered for VAT or not, you just cant claim it back if you arent.

As regards the main issue they are completely at fault, they and their system didnt charge you the correct price at the time. If they had gotten back to you within a few days or shortly after then you probably would have paid it and said fine but its months ago. The mistake is theres, they know it. Also if the company is based in England her reporting it to the Revenue is very unlikely and for the sake of forty euro. Im sure if you ignore it you wont hear from them again, if you do simply tell them the mistake was made by them at the time and they have no right to come looking for it months later.

barneystinson

If you didn't provide them with an Irish VAT number, they were obliged to charge you VAT, end of.

They invoiced you and you paid it, you are entitled to assume that they have accounted for the VAT correctly, and if they haven't the liability is on them entirely, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

As regards their threat to contact Revenue that's just laughable, since the VAT they want you to pay now is UK VAT..!

Just ignore it and move on.

FISMA

Don't even consider paying.

A deal is a deal.

If they have a programming bug, didn't hire someone competent enough to review invoices, or whatever, too bad. It is their fault and they should eat the difference.

I have been in a lot of businesses and couldn't imagine asking the customer for another 40 quid.

By the way, did you pay with a cc? If they were really entitled to the 40 quid they would just charge the difference, but they won't. They are hoping to convince you to pay more, don't do it.

This is just them trying to get a few more quid when they know they have no recourse - oldest trick in the book, get you to volunteer to pay more.

ronaneire

Axwell wrote: »

Originally Posted by Zonua I am not registered for VAT, as I earn less than the threshold.

That bit is irrelevant to the issue, you pay VAT on items whether you are registered for VAT or not, you just cant claim it back if you arent.

It is relevant, if your purchasing something outside Ireland and within the EU and are VAT registered you don't pay any VAT on the goods.

On topic, don't pay it. They should have the decency to let it go, as they made the mistake.

DubTony

Don't pay it. They screwed up. Now they're learning the lesson. What can they do? What will they do? It's 40 quid for God's sake. Wait till they start threatening you with CCJ's. Then you can laugh at them even more.

EKRIUQ

But you did pay the vat, the cost of the goods was £167 x 20% vat = £200. Their invoices must include vat and it's up to them to collect for the revenue. It's their fault they charged the incorrect price or sold the goods at a discounted price. This has nothing to do with revenue.

Chevy RV

Zonua wrote: »

I am not registered for VAT, as I earn less than the threshold.

At the time, I paid the correct amount, as far as I was concerned, and I have a digital copy of the invoice in my inbox, which states:
Total Price: 200euro
Total Price + VAT: 200euro.

QUOTE]


If you "somehow" gave them a VAT number you could have a problem.


If you didn't and the invoice is as above ,you are in the clear as they did NOT charge you VAT probably because they were not registered at the time or made a mistake. Either way it's their problem.


Tell them they should be more concerned about getting all that money they lent to the Irish Government back.:D


Chevy RV

maxer68

Axwell wrote: »

That bit is irrelevant to the issue, you pay VAT on items whether you are registered for VAT or not, you just cant claim it back if you arent.

If you're vat registered and buying from another EU country, vat is not charged but is account for in the vat return.

EKRIUQ wrote: »

But you did pay the vat, the cost of the goods was £167 x 20% vat = £200. Their invoices must include vat and it's up to them to collect for the revenue. It's their fault they charged the incorrect price or sold the goods at a discounted price. This has nothing to do with revenue.

This is a business forum, it is assumed that most posts are to do with business matters. When selling from one business to another is is assumed that vat is EXTRA and not included in the price.


In this case, the supplier made the error in assuming that the op was vat registered. They can either request that you pay the vat (it will be in their T&C's) or they can write it off.

As for others suggesting that you tell them to take a hike, this is not how you run a business and next time you need to use them, they'll tell you the same thing.

Easiest way is to explain to them that you charged your client at cost and didn't put a margin on the price you paid and if they could reduce the invoice amount to reflect a vat inclusive price of 200, you would appreciate it. Decency and manners goes a long way in sorting issues like this.