Salary Expectations

Arddon

I would like some opinion on what the expected salary would be for somebody in my current position, as I'm feeling a little exploited/used/undervalued by my employers.

Dont get me wrong, I am VERY greatful to have a job at present, given the current situation we find ourselves in.

I am an engineer with over 8yrs industry experience.
I am with current company 4yrs, and prior to that was with another company for 4yrs.
I hold a 1:1 degree in engineering discipline from a university.

The company make machines for medium-heavy industry.

In my role there is a fair amount of foreign travel (On average every 5wks lasting on average 5days per trip)
I receive no extra payment for foreign travel (i.e. no overtime, no bonus)
The travel is ALWAYS to unglamourous locations and the work intense - long hours in relatively poor conditions (i.e. they are not junkets and I am not in an office)

In my role I cover the following on every project:
customer management, project management, sales support, design (this covers pneumatics, mechanical & electrical design - mainly mechanical), installations (again this is pneumatics, mechanical & electrical), commissioning & troubleshooting

So what is the minimum I should be earning?

Again I am greatful to have a job...but that doesnt mean I cant be pissed off with my employer...

bren2002

I'm guessing around 75k-85k. Are you signing off on work completed?

bren2002

BTW there are plenty of salary surveys out there. In my experience if you're within 10-15% of the surveys you're probably at the right level.

Sikie

75-85k I would say is top end 60-70 would be ok. Salary surveys in my opinion paint a picture the grass is greener elsewhere so I would discount 10%-15% of the quoted rates

Eoin

Arddon wrote: »

I receive no extra payment for foreign travel (i.e. no overtime, no bonus)
The travel is ALWAYS to unglamourous locations and the work intense - long hours in relatively poor conditions (i.e. they are not junkets and I am not in an office)

I don't know about the engineering industry, but that's certainly the norm for a lot of business travellers. At best, a little time in lieu if the return flight got in at late hours, and forget about O/T or nice locations.

Arddon

Cheers for the replies folks...keep opinions coming!

We sign off on all our work (that we are responsible for) when we commission each machine.
The value of these machines range from 150k - 500k...and we are responsible for them from day 1...and if there are any problems along the way we get the sh*t...

I've tried searching on the net for salary surveys but any I've found have been too vague...any suggestions as to what ones you've come across that may be of use?

I'm aware salary surveys may paint a picture and would take 10-15% as a fair deduction on top end figures...

In fairness we do get time in lieu...but its an unwritten rule as to how much we get...and it often proves difficult to get as there are only 6 of us and schedules can be busy so time off, especially when its time in lieu, can be frowned upon...

when we go to site the hours can be LONG, as can the travel...its worldwide...China, USA, Brazil, India...its not 9-5 or 8-4...its very often 7-7, and thats a good day... and my salary is based on a 39.5hr week

Eoin - when you say this is the norm - no OT - what would you then expect salary to be>
Surely you would agree that the basic salary should compensate the long hours & no overtime & being away from family etc...

Also - are there any bodies/companies out there that given a job description/role - would give you an indication as to what sort of terms/salary you should be expecting??

As it seems you don't have any direct reports I reckon €60K salary would be the upper limit. Machines worth 150K to 500k aren't overly impressive to be honest. Realistically your 1:1 degree doesn't effect anything as it's a nice to have not a need to have for the role. Most engineering roles I have come across are salaried only with no overtime and no premium for travelling.

You say you are with the company four years, presumably after a few months with them you were performing satisfactorily. Electrical, pneumatic commissioning experience isn't in short supply.

To do your job, could a recent graduate with one or two years relevant experience cut the mustard? If so and you are on €40K to €50K/annum that's why.

75K to 85K is looney money for a salaried non team lead engineer imo. A contractor would have to invoice €40/hour for 40 hours a week for 50 weeks of the year to invoice €80K/annum.

Four years ago when you started with this crowd there would have been plenty of large projects going on in Ireland so you would have been unlikely to have gotten shafted on your starting wage from them.

Eoin

Arddon wrote: »

In fairness we do get time in lieu...but its an unwritten rule as to how much we get...and it often proves difficult to get as there are only 6 of us and schedules can be busy so time off, especially when its time in lieu, can be frowned upon...

when we go to site the hours can be LONG, as can the travel...its worldwide...China, USA, Brazil, India...its not 9-5 or 8-4...its very often 7-7, and thats a good day... and my salary is based on a 39.5hr week

Eoin - when you say this is the norm - no OT - what would you then expect salary to be>
Surely you would agree that the basic salary should compensate the long hours & no overtime & being away from family etc...

I have no idea about your industry, so can't possibly comment on what a fair salary would be. I was really just saying that your experience of travelling with work is the reality for most business travellers.

Arddon

RoverJames wrote: »

As it seems you don't have any direct reports I reckon €60K salary would be the upper limit. Machines worth 150K to 500k aren't overly impressive to be honest. Realistically your 1:1 degree doesn't effect anything as it's a nice to have not a need to have for the role. Most engineering roles I have come across are salaried only with no overtime and no premium for travelling.

You say you are with the company four years, presumably after a few months with them you were performing satisfactorily. Electrical, pneumatic commissioning experience isn't in short supply.

To do your job, could a recent graduate with one or two years relevant experience cut the mustard? If so and you are on €40K to €50K/annum that's why.

75K to 85K is looney money for a salaried non team lead engineer imo. A contractor would have to invoice €40/hour for 40 hours a week for 50 weeks of the year to invoice €80K/annum.

Four years ago when you started with this crowd there would have been plenty of large projects going on in Ireland so you would have been unlikely to have gotten shafted on your starting wage from them.

Cheers for the post...I value your comments
Can you disclose your current position/role...not to worry if you cant, but I would like to know how much value I can take from these comments.

75-85k would indeed be "looney money"...

The fact of the matter is that I am paid based on a 39.5hr week...this is never the case...

I travel internationally...a lot...and its not Monday to Friday...and its not 9-5 and we dont get overtime...the work is in poor environments

The job itself encompasses design (following customer machine surveys)
customer management, project management, sales support, design (this covers pneumatics, installations (again this is pneumatics, mechanical & electrical), commissioning & troubleshooting

i'm pissed off (and need a place to vent)...my salary is in the low 40's
there are little prospects for promotion due to the structure of the organisation...and I have ambitions...my personal life suffers, the lifestyle can be unhealthy, my football and golf "careers" have deteriorated and yet my bank balance doesnt reflect any of this...

am i being "unfairly" treated and can I approach my employers looking for a wage adjustment based on this...or do i just get over it, shut up and plot my way out of here??!

thanks

westies4ever

It seems to be the way of it in the engineering and construction industry. Hubbie is site manager in the shopfitting sector. Salary is in the low €40k bracket as wekk for a 39.5 hr week.

That would be fine if he worked that - most weeks its closer to 60hrs. When a job is close to hand over its 24/7. I recently saw him work 3 weeks straight without a day off - away at 6am, sometimes not getting home til midnight and away at 6am again. No over time, no bonus, nothing.

His health and sanity are suffering but all we hear is 'sure arent you lucky you've a job'.

You are definitely being unfairly treated as is my husband. I dont know your employers but hubbie would get laughed out of it if he complained. He is plotting his way out and applying for other jobs (mainly in the maintenance/facilities sector) but no luck so far.

Sikie

Having read more since my last comment, the role I would say 40-50k is the maximum an employer would pay for this role. I say this because it seems like a role that is set up so nobody will last in the role or make a career out of it. Exactly as you describe travelling while interesting to begin with, becomes tedious and then you leave and you are replaced by a more junior person who is trained starts at the bottom and works until they leave within 3-4 years. Unfortunately the way things are now there are fewer opportunities outside your company so you are stuck with what you have. You could look at improving other terms and conditions apart from pay e.g. clearer rules around time in lieu to stop it going over the top. More importantly you need to get positive decide what you want as a next role and start putting the a plan together to allow you to make the move you want at some point in the future, by acquiring the skills and experience for it by expanding your current role to acquire them. In general nobody ever refuses somebody looking for more work but in looking for extra responsibilities it has to be purposefully adding to your career plan. Worse case you become seen as indispensible which is now leverage for a salary review, best case it is the grounds to get a new job at a more opportunity rich employer.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

............................................

To do your job, could a recent graduate with one or two years relevant experience cut the mustard? If so and you are on €40K to €50K/annum that's why.
...............

Arddon wrote: »

Cheers for the post...I value your comments
Can you disclose your current position/role...not to worry if you cant, but I would like to know how much value I can take from these comments.

...............................my salary is in the low 40's
there are little prospects for promotion due to the structure of the organisation..............................................

am i being "unfairly" treated and can I approach my employers looking for a wage adjustment based on this...or do i just get over it, shut up and plot my way out of here??!

thanks

Well unfortunately I wasn't far off with the €40k to €50k estimate of your salary. I would have thought though that you'd be on €50k now though after starting 4 years ago on the low €40k range.

Given your experience I would think you have an excellent case to request a decent salary increase up to €50k/annum. I can't see your company paying more than that for your role. Also I can't see them throwing more than €2000/€3000 at you, if that even. Such is life and all that.

Regarding my own position, I'm a contract engineer for the last 5 years, currently in my 4th role. Prior to that I worked in water treatment in a technical sales position with a 50% allocation of my time spent on existing business which meant ensuring the steam boilers, cooling towers dosing systems, water softeners etc were all hunky dorey. Before that I worked in a bio pharmaceutical plant for two and a half years, a year of which was in production the first 18 months ish was spent commissioning as the plant was new.


Most staff engineer roles are 39 hours salaried with the expectation that you do a few more, usually 5 ish, maybe 10 on busy weeks. Same as accountants etc. You are being stung more though with the travelling at weekends etc.

Bandana boy

Low 40s does seem a little low for that role.
I would ask for a raise ,but Make sure you go in calm and base it on facts.

Some facts to consider i have never in 14 years seen a eng role that did less than 50 hours a week on average for there 39 so I would not use that in your argument.

A few years back I did a similar amount of travel which required Sunday flights and back Friday evening /Sat morning.We too had an unofficial time in lieu.
Building it up was no good you would just never get the time back ,You have to ensure you take some time back close to the time of travel.
I made a habit of working a half day from home catching up on mail first day back after a trip.
Once I was more secure in what was required I started organizing my flights back Thursday evening if from the states ,Friday morning if Coming from Europe and I took the balance of Friday off.

I was always flexible with requirements but i made the situation work for me and the company was fine with it.

When i was going somewhere decent I negotiated a Flight for my better half and we would stay on 2-3 days etc.

dan_d

I was a site engineer for the last 5 years. 50 hour week was the contract hours you signed up to. Usually hit 55 - 60 hours. That's how it was. I finished up on a salary of the high 30's. No overtime, no time in lieu, nada. It just wasn't part of the job, to be honest. My OH is at the same thing and right now he's working every other Saturday/Sunday aswell as the 5 day week for the next few months, due to the job he's on. It's how it goes and it's why there's such a large turnover of staff in those companies. Unfortunately there's nowhere else to go right now.

To be honest, with 8 yrs experience, and 4 years in the company, I'd be thinking that 50k is a more reasonable amount. Not because of the travelling, or the hours though. I'm afraid they're just part of your job, and that's it. More because of the amount of experience you have and the amount of time you've been with them. Also the 1:1 degree is, at this stage, a nice to have and I'm afraid it doesn't mean much. Sorry.