Blood Testing

Mouthalmighty

I know this subject has been discussed before but I was looking at pics of CW42 & damn there was a veritable ocean of blood in the Juri Malko fight.

I believe that a blood testing poilcy of some description adopted by all promotions with the onus on the fighter/coaches to ensure that they're clean. I could be wrong but I believe that a blood test is about 20 -30 quid ( I am open to correction on that as my info is 5 or so years old).

Before fighters/coaches complain (if they do) of cost I would pose the question: Do you regularly service your car/computer etc why not keep an eye on your body & health?

What do people think?

Clive

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

I could be wrong but I believe that a blood test is about 20 -30 quid ( I am open to correction on that as my info is 5 or so years old).

Yes, it's much more. Closer to €100 for most people.

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

Before fighters/coaches complain (if they do) of cost I would pose the question: Do you regularly service your car/computer etc why not keep an eye on your body & health?

It's not an issue of health - my blood is tested every time I donate. If promoters want a shiny cert to say that a fighter is disease free then they should be paying for it, simple as, either directly or by increased purses. Fighters are already fighting and selling tickets, is it too much to ask that if promoters want blood tests that they pay for them?

Most fighters in Ireland already make a loss on each fight they take unless they're at a fairly decent level, so in fairness promoters should be covering the cost as an act of goodwill if nothing else. Once things are up and running, people fighting regularly will only need to be retested every six months, so many promoters will have a smaller number of tests to pay for for each show.

I'm totally in favour of blood testing, I just feel young fighters shouldn't have to bear the cost.

Sid_Justice

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

I know this subject has been discussed before

It has, quite extensively, did you read that thread?

I was looking at pics of CW42 & damn there was a veritable ocean of blood in the Juri Malko fight.

No there wasn't.

I believe that a blood testing policy of some description [should be] adopted by all promotions

Clean from what? What should the blood be tested for? How often should it be tested? How do you ensure it is reliable and accurate. Should promoters refuse to allow 'untested' fighters fight?

I could be wrong but I believe that a blood test is about 20 -30 quid ( I am open to correction on that as my info is 5 or so years old).

Yes you are wrong and you information is out of date.

Before fighters/coaches complain (if they do) of cost I would pose the question: Do you regularly service your car/computer etc why not keep an eye on your body & health?

If your analogy was to getting your car serviced and getting a regular health check up there might be something to it. Getting an annual or bi-annual blood test for Hepatitis C isn't actually a good way to monitor your personal health and well being.

What do people think?

I think blood testing is appropriate for professional fights. The Nevada State Athletic commission's policy is that for a license to be granted for a professional MMA fighter / boxer they must have a full physical exam performed, blood tests for HIV (within 30 days), Hepatitis B and C (within calendar year), an ophthalmic exam and no history of recent concussion. They also request copies of any brain MRI or cerebral artery MRAs.

Source: http://boxing.nv.gov/New_ProfContestant.htm

To the best of my knowledge the promoters here supply the medical staff to take medical history and perform physical examination on the day /day before a fight. This cost is absorbed by the promoter, why should be blood testing be any different?

Mouthalmighty

If promoters pay that'd be even better.If the cost is 100 quid a pop then
maybe they should as i said it was years ago i had one done as part of college dealing with sludge to make sure i didn't have Hep B or C so my info was well outdated.

I'm just saying that I've been to alot of shows & seen a lot of bloody fights & I was just thinking from a health & safety point of view. I think there is some clause in the legislation that if something can feasibly happen at the event (such as blood infection) there has to be some policy to deal with it.

With regards to "ocean of blood" I am prone to hyperbole but the two lads were covered in someone's blood. (Juri Malko & Tom O'Sullivan)

From the replies people are in favour of it I'm just curious how can it be made the "norm" for want of a better term.
Thanks guys for comments

Sid_Justice

You're absolutely right

If you ask any of the lads fighting, are they in favour of blood testing they will say yes. ask any of the coaches and they will say yes. Ask any promoter and they will say yes. The health and safety risk is, however, in my lowly opinion, minimum.

The pertinent question isn't "should there be blood tests" the issue is who will pay for them, who will conduct them, who will supervise and regulate them and at what point should it become mandatory.

My problem is, and this is why I reply to these threads is that someone throws out the term 'healthy and safety' as a blanket term to counter all arguments.

Q: "Why should we have blood tests?" A: Health and Safety Reasons

Again in my opinion only, the real risks when competing in MMA in Ireland right now is not Hepatitis B/C or HIV infection but rather things like concussion and other traumas. Many people will say, I don't care if the risk of HIV is 1/1000000 I'd rather make that risk 0 by introducing blood tests.

Just to repeat in case people forget or think I'm speaking out of place, I am in no way telling people not to get blood tests, or telling promoters what rules to have etc. There is no regulation body so this discussion is a theoretical one about best practice and I'm offering my own opinion. In fact, I believe a lot of promotions already conduct blood testing.

ollieo

The reason to have blood testing carried out is to ensure fighter safety. (blood borne diseases).

A way of getting promoters to pay for blood testing is to make it a 'health and safety' issue.

I'm fairly sure promoters have a 'duty of care' for fighters.

Under 'duty of care' promoters have a responsibility to identify 'reasonably foreseeable risks' and do all that is 'reasonably practicable' to remove/reduce the risk to an acceptable level.

Is the transfer of blood between two fighters a foreseeable risk? Yes.
Is it likely to happen? Yes.

Now the questions the promoter has to answer are, 'Is it 'reasonably practicable' to carry out blood testing? Yes

and these are my reasons:

Is the risk of blood being transferred between fighters so unlikely to occur that to carry out blood testing would be excessive? IMO the answer is No.

Is the cost of blood testing so excessive as to make blood testing impracticable? IMO the answer is No again.

If promoters owe the fighters a 'duty of care', I believe they could be libel if (God forbid) a fighter was to contract a blood borne disease after coming in contact with another fighters blood.

I am not a lawyer, but I have a background in Health and Safety.

I am trying to point out to promoters how they may be libel if a case was brought against them.

I hope I explained myself properly.

kainer2

FYI

In the US the fighter (usually) is required to pay for all their commission medicals. Even when you get to UFC level, the fighter pays for the bloods, eyes, MRI (if required)

I think blood tests will happen on shows, but we work in an industry where (some) fighters / teams struggle to do basic paperwork, let alone get tests done. Plus i think a lot of promotions will struggle to have the manpower to push fighters to get blood work done. Afterall, there are still a lot of promotions that can't record their own results properly !

I feel that without a proper governing body monitoring the actions of Promotions and fighters there is nothing to stop all kinds of foul play, fake paper work, and blind eyes being turned.

e.g. Fighter X comes in with no blood test, but also has 300 tickets paid for in his hands...what do you think will happen?

MarkFairman

IMO they shouldnt fight. No blood test no fight, purse forfieted.

Somone needs to set a precedence. The bigger shows would not refund tickets because a fighter did not get his bloods done and either should the smaller shows. If the onus is on the fighter and he did all the hard work but didnt do the test.........well tough sh!t, this is what it takes to be a professional.

I think at the time the fight is agreed to it should be decided if the fighter or the promoter will bear the cost of the testing, however it needs to be done.

Im sure the fight doctor is more than qualified to verify the authenticity of the tests

Stephen_King

ollieo wrote: »

A way of getting promoters to pay for blood testing is to make it a 'health and safety' issue.

Just for interests sake could promoters have the blood tests written off against tax as a business necessity?

tommyl2010

Stephen_King wrote: »

Just for interests sake could promoters have the blood tests written off against tax as a business necessity?

id assume so if it was all above board they would be paying tax on it so would be able to claim it back

Mouthalmighty

Just a thought that occurred to me there so bear with me.
There seems to be an interest in the forming of a regulatory body. I could be wrong but an informal one exists for deciding rule changes such as the new C class etc (which rock) could a group of like minded individuals approach a testing lab /Physician & says "look all fighters in country will be tested by you give us a good price".
Now who foots the bill is the question & maybe thats a different debate? I haven't thought thru the logistics but would that be feasible?

cowzerp

I was offered a couple of contracts to go pro in Boxing-with all i personally had to pay for MRI, Bloods, Cat scan and overall medical once a year to do that, and starting off as a pro the money is non existant so your essentially paying to fight.

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

Just a thought that occurred to me there so bear with me.

There seems to be an interest in the forming of a regulatory body.

The more i think of it the more ridiculous the idea is, if it happened there would be many splits and we'd end up like TKD or Judo with multiple bodies, actually like most martial arts too.

What i would say is we stick to using common sense and supporting each other and not backing poor actions as most do now.

Mouthalmighty

What do you mean by "poor actions" Paul? (In as non confrontational tone possible)
Its true the level of Ricardo-heads in MMA is minimal compared to other martial arts.
Listen I'm just an eejit spitballin' ideas here because I love the sport. If i can quote JF there has to be some sort of regulation in place before some a$$-clown in a town/city council does it instead of those in the know.

cowzerp

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

What do you mean by "poor actions" Paul? (In as non confrontational tone possible)
Its true the level of Ricardo-heads in MMA is minimal compared to other martial arts.
Listen I'm just an eejit spitballin' ideas here because I love the sport. If i can quote JF there has to be some sort of regulation in place before some a$$-clown in a town/city council does it instead of those in the know.

Even with a governing body councils could stick there nose in, less so down south though.

Regulatory body is not plausible and anyone whjo feels it is, is either stupid or i'd say ill informed in my opinion.

What i mean is obvious stuff, If promotions don't pay up what they owe then people should stop supporting them, if they are getting fighters embarrased/hurt by bad match making the same applies, If clubs are not looking after there fighters then i'd avoid dealing with them also if possible, the list goes on and on..

Basically support those who do things right and dont the ones who dont dothings right.

ollieo

Stephen_King wrote: »

Just for interests sake could promoters have the blood tests written off against tax as a business necessity?

I haven't a clue about the ins and outs of taxes and tax write-offs.

ollieo

Personally, I think the easiest way for the blood testing to be done is for fighters/gyms to sort it out themselves.

I know that some MMA gyms in the U.S. require anyone who wants to train there to take a blood test first.

When I say gyms, I mean that gyms could insist on anyone training in their gym who wants/intends to fight in the future to have blood tests done and produce the cert to their coach.

Most gyms I know of have a 'fighters only' class at least once a week, is it possible for coaches to require that anyone who wants to participate in that 'fighters only' class produce a cert to show that they have had a clean test?

This will also ensure that all 'fighters' in the gym are clean (not all members just fighters, i don't think it is practicable to insist that every member produce a blood test).

It may be possible for gyms to approach a doctor/medical lab and have all fighters tested at once and may be able to negotiate a discount. (I have no idea how much blood tests cost, I'm only throwing ideas out there.)

My ideas will probably be shot down because it involves fighters incurring more costs, BUT IMO it is a necessary cost to ensure fighter safety whoever foots the bill.

Blood testing is for the benefit of fighters, if it means they incur extra costs so be it.

There are plenty of guys in Ireland training to be full-time professional fighters, there career could be over before it even starts if they contract a blood borne disease from another fighter during a fight, not to mention the effect it would have on their health for the rest of their lives.

Pomoters/coaches and fighters need to stop b!tching about who's going to pay for the tests, and just get them done.

Apologies for the long post, end rant.