VRT payment/penalty or excemption

Confusedvrtman

Hi, Id really appreciate some reliable information on my concern.

I have purchased a rough 88 pontiac firebird last week from a guy that had it stored in his farm barn for the past couple of years in the Republic, car still on UK plates and not used on Irish roads.

I got the car lifted home and my understanding was that I could pay the VRT when the car was actually going to used on the road.

I purchased it as a `fixer/project` and wanted to spent some time getting it right etc but have now been told the VRT needs to be paid regardless?

I have also been told that I may be liable for the years it was stored in the barn as previous owner did not register it, all I have is a dated cert of export and a handwritten reciept for purchase.

I tried looking into this before purchase and was basically passed around and now after purchase am still beeen passed around.


Really appreciate some official advice on this as am selling own car go fund this......

1-If car is off-road (on private property) am I still included in the 30 day timeline?

2-If so how to I produce it to NCT as is unroadworthy at the moment?

3-Am I liable for the previous VRT from previous owners period? He had car lying in private storage since import(2004)

Have been passed from NCT to VRT to Revenue to Nct to VRT to Shannon to Rosslare etc and nobody can give straight or even helpful answer !!!

Thanks

ants09

dont know if this link will help or not :-)

http://www.vrt.ie/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=988

Henry Ford III

Hide it. No worries.

Confusedvrtman

Wish I could hide it.....or better still turn it into a micra

Thanks for that Ants, yeah thats sorta the same thing, I know ill have to pay VRT been an 88 but I wasnt planning on it till I had the car ready to go on the road both mechanically and financially.

All a new experience to me, was hoping to have it tiptop by next year-ish and have the vrt then so thinking I had to get it by end of month was a shock.....thinking I might be liable for 7 years was even more a shock.

Hope that answer is right

aujopimur

OMSP on a rough car should be a lot less than that on a minter

Confusedvrtman

aujopimur wrote: »

OMSP on a rough car should be a lot less than that on a minter

Yeah I was told that alright but funds in the red since buying car in first place, If I had an idea how much might save or cost could make a decision on what best do to then but its impossible to get any answers from the òfficials`......have actually gotten more regarding my query from Ants.

She is running, starts, drives and stops, but is not roadworthy as in the brakes need attention, needs front and rear sway bars, needs bushings, exhaust loose, and needs slight bodywork etc so dont know how much that would effect the vrt.

Appreciate ALL advice but my main worries where the 30 day window frame from purchase and the 7 year unreged `penalty`....all I have to prove purchase is a handwritten `reciept`and a printout/photo of the for sale ad.

Might not be a bad idea to put in writing that have just bought it and will be off road until such time as presented for VRT and see if the guards will stamp it?

Just weary of getting hit with a penalty when I do for it, or worse still putting all the time and effort into it then getting hit for penalties prior purchase......no-one mentioned this when enquiring :mad:

corktina

sounds to me that even if you were toclaim it has just been imported,you wont be able to get it roadworthy within 30 days.
How about trailering it to the NCTS and getting it refused for VRT in which case you will have presented it and presumably will be able to return at some future date without penalty. you never know, they might accept it if it drives and stops!

Confusedvrtman

Thanks for the replies, am just trying to go the right way about it but trying not to get screwed over in the process, heres the response I got from them anyway which happy enough with I suppose......


http://www.vrt.ie/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1085

unkel

Did you contact the NCT and see what they have to say? I would email them, telling them exactly when you bought it and that you can't get it to them yet as it is not roadworthy.

Don't worry about any penalties, you're doing nothing wrong by being honest! Also, whether the car was VRTd 7 years ago, now or next year probably won't make any difference in the amount of VRT you have to pay. I'd say the minimum VRT of €720 will apply for any car not yet 30 years old.

Edit: ah I see you posted in the VRT forum - looks like you're sorted

Welcome to boards.ie anyway

hi5

"If the car has been unroadworthy all that time then there was no requirement to register the car.

I would think if you have proof of when you purchased the car and proof of restoration then you would most likely ok (this is not a fact, just an opinion).

Also once the car is roadworthy you will be required to book appointment with NCT centre within 7 days and register the car within 30 days"

The above as posted by VRT.IE on the VRT site.

Is it not the job of officials paid by taxpayers to turn opinions into facts?

Confusedvrtman

Thanks Unkel

hi5 wrote: »

Is it not the job of officials paid by taxpayers to turn opinions into facts?

Ah its unbelieveable, It was an `official` that told me it was to be paid regardless and then went on to say I was liable for delayed payment over the last 7 years and would be billed when I do present it, told me then Id have to pay it and appeal it afterwards.

Honestly have never seen the likes of it and been passed around!

corktina

hi5 wrote: »

"If the car has been unroadworthy all that time then there was no requirement to register the car.

I would think if you have proof of when you purchased the car and proof of restoration then you would most likely ok (this is not a fact, just an opinion).

Also once the car is roadworthy you will be required to book appointment with NCT centre within 7 days and register the car within 30 days"

The above as posted by VRT.IE on the VRT site.

Is it not the job of officials paid by taxpayers to turn opinions into facts?

who is VRT.IE? It says its an independant forum so I dont think he will be a paid official, its just the guys opinion surely and cant be taken as gospel

hi5

corktina wrote: »

who is VRT.IE? It says its an independant forum so I dont think he will be a paid official, its just the guys opinion surely and cant be taken as gospel

Your right, my mistake.
I was automatically presuming "VRT.ie" would have been registered to revenue

So it is just an opinion and so has no real standing:(

unkel

I thought it was a requirement to have registered a business name for it to be used as an Irish (.ie) domain? So you can only setup vrt.ie if you have registered the business name vrt

Anybody in the know, or anybody behind vrt.ie or indeed the official organisation to vrt cars - the NCT, let us know!!!

Confusedvrtman

***UPDATE***

Rang today to see if could get vrt done on car as is and was told yes, was told again though I will be liable for the penalities and was told........

"VRT dont care who owned it you have it now and the penalty has to be
paid"

Beginning to regret buying the car I have always wanted.

Have started legal proceedings anyway, have a pain in my nuts at this stage :mad:

hi5

Is the penalty the difference between what you should have paid back when it was imported originally and what the VRT payment is now.
Or is it something different like a fine for not obeying the law.

I have a 1991 pickup truck in the same position as yourself.
It was in a hundred pieces when the ruling came in and still is, so nothing deliberate on my behalf.
Ironicaly the VRT was €50 back then its now €200:(

Confusedvrtman

hi5 wrote: »

I have a 1991 pickup truck in the same position as yourself.
Ironicaly the VRT was €50 back then its now €200:(

How is it 50 for a 1991?

From what I can make out the penalty is the recurring fine for not doing it back in 2004 when was originally imported after the 30 days.....so its a recurring fine of 6years 11 months??? BUT the vechicle was off-road during this time so according to vrt.ie doesnt need to be registered in the first place......But then thats just vrt.ie`s opinion and he/she is actually seperate to the VRT/NCT???

Its just one big mess and have a pain in my arse already with it to be honest.

I tried to look into all this before purchase and was told even by Gardai that VRT does not need to be paid until the vehicle will be used in a public area......but according the NCT and the `real` VRT you get penalised for this???

I dont mind paying VRT now just to get this finalised but Im not paying from date of import.

Have a solicitor looking into it anyway!!!

kop77

Hi, I've an 86 Merc on blocks with UK reg and I rang the VRO office in Kildare about a month ago and they told me that I will only have to pay the VRT when the car is finished, not back dated, they said once its not road worthy then you cant bring it to the NCT to have it looked at! Which VRO office did you contact?

Confusedvrtman

kop77 wrote: »

I rang the VRO office in Kildare about a month ago and they told me that I will only have to pay the VRT when the car is finished, not back dated, they said once its not road worthy then you cant bring it to the NCT to have it looked at!

That was exactly my understanding and I bought the car on that belief.

My car starts, stops(ish) and drives but would not be classed as roadworthy, I am experienced driver and even I would be a little nervous taking her on a public road, but anyway it was the NCT/VRT costumer service today.....said once the car moves few inches they will VRT/value it??? Again the topic of how did I get into the country came up and the above quotation was what I was told!!!

I have photos of car just outside the barn, I have photos of it going on the towtruck and I also have photos of me driving behind it on collection as to not take it on a public road but I shouldnt have to go down the road and have it in the back of my mind whats gona happen when I do bring it for VRT.

Its a simple straighforward question which cant get a definite answer on so I think some sort of legal proof is the only way to be sure.

ants09

1.17.1.5.2 Condition of Classic/Collectible Vehicles

Condition C: This term is used to describe a vehicle which is in bad
condition, i.e. which, although capable of being driven when presented for
registration, requires extensive repair/restoration. It is important to ensure that
these vehicles, before they are assigned bad condition, fall within the
definition of a motor vehicle for VRT purposes, otherwise they must be
repaired/restored before valuation and registration.

www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/...tax/vrt-manual-section-1.pdf

it wouldnt be classify as a classic but condition C applies as otherwise they must be repaired/restored before valuation and registration

Mr. Presentable

With respect of the 7 years in a shed, surely it is the roadworthiness of the car when it was imported that's relevant for VRT purposes, not the condition when presented/not presented. Otherwise could you not import a minter and let it go to pot for a few years before presenting it?

Confusedvrtman

ants09 wrote: »

it wouldnt be classify as a classic but condition C applies as otherwise they must be repaired/restored before valuation and registration

Could be that, I have no problem getting it there, would rather do it sooner than later and clear the whole thing up anyway, think Ill have to do that anyway and see what is said then!

Confusedvrtman

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Otherwise could you not import a minter and let it go to pot for a few years before presenting it?

Yeah but I didnt buy it as a minter I bought it as is and have already put work/money into the t-tops!

Whose to say it was not in the same condition when he brought it in and kept it covered/preserved throughout them years.....maybe he even did work to it himself but didnt finish it.

Either way its ridicilous to think cant get definite or even matching answers, think Ill have to just get her there and see what they say then and take it from there.

An enjoyable experience has turned into an ordeal though, and thats only so far!

Confusedvrtman

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Otherwise could you not import a minter and let it go to pot for a few years before presenting it?

Even at that if thats a valid reason, it was never driven on a Irish road and was kept in private grounds?

Hopefully have some more(good)news in a few days anyway

macplaxton

Confusedvrtman wrote: »

How is it 50 for a 1991?

I do believe hi5 said he had "1991 pickup truck" which may explain the 50/200 Category C VRT.

Confusedvrtman

One thing`s for sure its one hell of a mess and probably better off waiting for the 30year mark, that was always my plan but seen it for sale and cracked

Am gonna make appointment anyway and see how it goes, will update and let ye know!!!

Confusedvrtman

***UPDATE***

Sorted,paid and 88 D plates

Thanks lads for the help and interest.

trevorbrady

well done. but...

• Sorted how?
• Did you have to pay any penalties?
• How much did it cost you?
• DId they take into account the condition of the car?
• Did it have to go through an NCT test, regardless of its condition? If not then what was the explanation?
• What was the official line from the NCT/VRT crowd?

Just so the rest of us know for future reference...

Sids Not

trevorbrady wrote: »

well done. but...

• Sorted how?
• Did you have to pay any penalties?
• How much did it cost you?
• DId they take into account the condition of the car?
• Did it have to go through an NCT test, regardless of its condition? If not then what was the explanation?
• What was the official line from the NCT/VRT crowd?

Just so the rest of us know for future reference...

+1
Theres a lot of people (self inc) who were/are watching this thread with interest...so, spill the beans on what happened in the last 2 weeks...;)

hi5

+3

Did you have to pay a penalty?

Confusedvrtman

As regards bringing it for VRT- Once the car can move under its own power it should be VRTd, roadworthiness is a completely different matter.

I hope you can appreciate it cant discuss it in detail or openly on a public forum, and also believe I was just lucky but if its of any help to anyone......

1-Vrt.ie IS completely seperate website and as such holds no real weight with revenue etc

2-Legally you are liable for back charges so is a case of buyer beware.....or get it straightened out BEFORE purchase(or prove that you tried and couldnt).

3-If your GENUINE and/or concerned what I suggest is `kick up` a fuss with the powers that be, and get as much as you can in writing/mail......and get it sorted as soon as possible

4-Yes the condition of the car does reflect the value, think they have three stages, mint-average-poor, mine fell into average.

5- Vrt was 1100

I know its not the most detailed answer but the revelant info is there

Hope this helps or gives a better understanding of the system even

unkel

Confusedvrtman wrote: »

I hope you can appreciate it cant discuss it in detail or openly on a public forum

I'm not sure why not? I'm getting the impression you did everything by the book, so why not share the details with us? A lot of people here are in the same boat as you, or are likely to be in it if they consider buying a foreign reg car in the future. We would much appreciate it if you could answer trevorbrady's questions

macplaxton

Confusedvrtman wrote: »

I hope you can appreciate it cant discuss it in detail or openly on a public forum,

Many thanks for coming back and giving a response. I can appreciate that you may not wish to disclose certain details.

The main thing is you came back with a reply. There are plenty of folk out there that come for loads of info and do not have the courtesy to reply when they have it.

Sids Not

In fairness to others, he's only replied with stuff that everyone knew already....I for one cant see why he doesnt want to disclose more...doesnt seem to be any legaql proceedings involved...

big dar

A friend of mine has an 83 astra gte on a uk plate and was/is waiting till its 30 years old to register it. However all he has is the v5 but no knowledge of when it came into the country as it changed hands a couple of times before he got it.
Is there a point in him waiting till the 30 year mark or will he get charged the same if he registers it now... Was tempted by a car myself this weekend but it was also on a uk plate and an 84 and it put me off

corktina

to make that work he would have to fabricate (ie lie) proof of date of purchase and entry into the state.

If he's using it and gets caught, it could be taken off him and/or he could get fined.

big dar

corktina wrote: »

to make that work he would have to fabricate (ie lie) proof of date of purchase and entry into the state.

If he's using it and gets caught, it could be taken off him and/or he could get fined.

No the car is off the road he was waiting til it was 30 years old. He has no intention of driving it until its re registered He knows when he bought it but doesnt know when it came into the country My question is if he waits til its 30 y.o will he only pay the 50 euro flat fee or the full whack so that if the car is 30 y.o or not makes no difference vrt wise

corktina

potentially he'll have to pay a fine back to the date of import.(or some notional date they might make up). As I say, he will need to come up with some paperwork, something like a receipt from someone in the North saying he just bought it off them and brought it in yesterday.

to answer your question, he MIGHT get away with €200 (as it is now) but potentially he may get hit with the full whack if he doesnt meet the NCTS requirements laid down by the Revenue.

hi5

According to this website
http://www.taxation.ie/guide-to-irish-tax/vehicle-registration-tax/

Where evidence of the CO2 emission rating is not available, the top rate of 35% will apply. Where a vehicle is not registered by the due date for registration the VRT liability may be increased by .1% per day for each day that the VRT is unpaid, this would equate to an additional VRT liability of 36.5% if the VRT was left unpaid for a year.

According to a friend of mine who works for the NCT,if the car is not worth much anyway and you have any sort of proof that the car may have been off the road then they turn a blind eye.
The rule is really meant for the big boys with their Aston Martins and Bentlys who could save 10's of thousands by keeping it on UK plates for a year.

Confusedvrtman

In fairness I have came back and said exactly what I did and exactly what happened, and if you read through the information I provided its says you ARE liable for backcharges, and also when you are liable........but Ive come back and told my personal experience and outcome, and offered what advice I can on what I know.

With all due respect, unless yous want the email addresses I used and the colour socks I wore when typing them there is not much else I can offer.

And yes legal proceedings were involved and YES I was told there too that I/you are liable for back charges......the only defence I had was that I tried, and have proof of been told to buy the car first before we can help you.

Someones incompentence? Someones bad day? My good luck? You decide

I have offered what best advice I can, and what I think is the only way to avoid getting stung in my opinion, If some of you arent happy with that I apologise, if some of you find it helpful or helps in any way then great!

Confusedvrtman

big dar wrote: »

A friend of mine has an 83 astra gte on a uk plate and was/is waiting till its 30 years old to register it

If its of any help, and maybe despite the general feeling I do want to help,

if the car does not move under its own power then it is not a car as such so doesnt need to be VRTed, when it does then its liable for VRT and whoever owns it at the time will have the burden of sorting this out....my understanding

So, in theory, if that car doesnt drive for 30 years, or is already excempt when it does drive, then there SHOULD be no problem when it is repaired and brought.

But as per my advice and for piece of mind and just my own personal opinion I would get that in some sort of headed/named writting because from experience can tell you at the moment its one big mess and they might hit you with a bill when presented....I honestly dont know hence why I advised get it sorted before any purchases are made etc

corktina

As for buying a car that is on UK plates and has changed hands in this country several times, you should bear in mind you are not entitled to sell a UK registered car in Ireland and so the liability for back VRT goes on with a new buyer (otherwise wouldnt everyone be concocting false sales to avoid the back tax?

big dar

Corktina, Confusedvrtman and Hi5 thanks for the detailed replies which are greatly appreaciated:)
It certainly sounds like buying a uk reg car in this country is off the menu. Hope it doesnt lead to good cars being scrapped to avoid tax

Confusedvrtman

big dar wrote: »

It certainly sounds like buying a uk reg car in this country is off the menu

I wouldnt quite go that far, but I do think its risky and luck of the draw/catch 22.....and of course how far your willing to bend over I suppose :eek:

shagman

Could ye not sell such a car to a mate up north and then buy it back, all legal I would think.
Am I wrong?