Linguistic Arrogance of The Irish & The English

Clareboy

As a frequent visitor to Spain, I have always been appalled by the linguistic arrogance of the Irish and English visitors to that country and their dismissive attitude to the Spanish language and heritage. Their mispronunciation of Spanish place names is the most obvious example of this arrogance and dismissive attitude. It’s what I call ‘ The Funger – Ola Syndrome’ - Funger- Ola being the Irish/English pronunciation of the Spanish resort of Fuengirola.



On a flight from Shannon to Alicante, as we flew over The Pyrenees, the great mountain range between France and Spain, I overhead this silly Irish woman, who was sitting in the seat in front of us remark “ we are crossing The Alps “. They call the city of Alicante – Ally-can-tee! , not Ally-can-tay, as the place should be called. From Alicante, we travelled on to Torrevieja and checked into our apartment. This English guy, who was the caretaker of the complex kept referring to Torrevieja as Tora–Becka! This linguistic arrogance also extends to the Irish/English who actually live in Spain. As he showed us around, he kept referring to ‘ Granny’. I later said to my wife, “ who the hell is Granny? “. Our apartment was owned by an Irish lady named Gráinne and this English twit was pronouncing her name as ‘ Granny’. Now the English may still have illusions of ‘ The Empire’, but I cannot ever understand why we Irish have to ape them in their arrogance.



Other examples of ‘ The Funger-Ola Syndrome’ include;



Mah – York – Ah = Mallorca, Lanza – Rotty = Lanzarote, Mercy – Ah = Murcia, Forta-Vent-Chew-Rah = Fuerteventura, Cora- Lecko = Correlejo, Toe – Lee – Doe = Toledo.



This appalling linguistic arrogance creates a barrier between the Irish/English visitor and the Spanish population. It would be like if all the tourists coming to Co. Clare called the Cliffs of Moher – The Cliffs of Mohair! The locals may see the joke at first, but after years of listening to it, they would regard the mispronunciation as an insult to their history and heritage. As we Irish have our own distinctive language and culture, I cannot understand why we are so dismissive of other languages and cultures when we travel abroad.

orourkeda

Perhaps its something to do with the fact that irish and english people donnt speak spanish

Guill

Que?

biko

After Hours -> Languages forum.

Frank Black

I guess you reckon the capital of France is 'Par -e' then?

Pounce.

Clareboy

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps its something to do with the fact that irish and english people donnt speak spanish

One does not have to speak Spanish in order to pronounce a name properly. Spanish is a Latin based language - it's not Russian or Arabic.

geuro

you're out of control op

jam_mac_jam

Its not arrogance, its ignorance because they dont speak Spanish. They dont know. I think your attitude is a better example of arrogance.

careca11

Clareboy wrote: »

As a frequent visitor to Spain, I have always been appalled by the linguistic arrogance of the Irish and English visitors to that country and their dismissive attitude to the Spanish language and heritage. Their mispronunciation of Spanish place names is the most obvious example of this arrogance and dismissive attitude. It’s what I call ‘ The Funger – Ola Syndrome’ - Funger- Ola being the Irish/English pronunciation of the Spanish resort of Fuengirola.



On a flight from Shannon to Alicante, as we flew over The Pyrenees, the great mountain range between France and Spain, I overhead this silly Irish woman, who was sitting in the seat in front of us remark “ we are crossing The Alps “. They call the city of Alicante – Ally-can-tee! , not Ally-can-tay, as the place should be called. From Alicante, we travelled on to Torrevieja and checked into our apartment. This English guy, who was the caretaker of the complex kept referring to Torrevieja as Tora–Becka! This linguistic arrogance also extends to the Irish/English who actually live in Spain. As he showed us around, he kept referring to ‘ Granny’. I later said to my wife, “ who the hell is Granny? “. Our apartment was owned by an Irish lady named Gráinne and this English twit was pronouncing her name as ‘ Granny’. Now the English may still have illusions of ‘ The Empire’, but I cannot ever understand why we Irish have to ape them in their arrogance.



Other examples of ‘ The Funger-Ola Syndrome’ include;



Mah – York – Ah = Mallorca, Lanza – Rotty = Lanzarote, Mercy – Ah = Murcia, Forta-Vent-Chew-Rah = Fuerteventura, Cora- Lecko = Correlejo, Toe – Lee – Doe = Toledo.



This appalling linguistic arrogance creates a barrier between the Irish/English visitor and the Spanish population. It would be like if all the tourists coming to Co. Clare called the Cliffs of Moher – The Cliffs of Mohair! The locals may see the joke at first, but after years of listening to it, they would regard the mispronunciation as an insult to their history and heritage. As we Irish have our own distinctive language and culture, I cannot understand why we are so dismissive of other languages and cultures when we travel abroad.

do you think a spanish/Italian/or any other on-english speaking tourist would be able to pronunance "mcgillycuddy reeks, or Carrauntohill , or how about Curragh in perfect English ,


American people cannot even pronunance Dundalk ffs

there is a touch of snobbery in your post to be honest

Clareboy

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Its not arrogance, its ignorance because they dont speak Spanish. They dont know. I think your attitude is a better example of arrogance.

The true sign of ignorance is not that you don't know, but that you don't want to know! It's as easy to say ' Toe - Lay - Doe ( Toledo ) ' as it is to say Toe- Lee - Doe.

Eve_Dublin

I teach English to Spaniards in Spain and have been doing so for almost 2 years. If you want to see bad pronunciation, sit in on my classes. No matter how many times I correct them, they don't improve and it's down to not caring. They simply don't care whether or not they're saying it correctly or not (for the most part) or not willing to make an effort and remember. It's frustrating as hell.

The Spanish translate most things into their own langauge, including place names or they'll just pronounce as they would in Spanish and it doesn't bother them. What makes it worse is that they're getting classes in the language...they supposedly speak the language...these Irish and English tourists aren't. They're just tourists who don't speak the local lingo and how do they know how it's pronounced?

What REALLY bugs me how many Brits and Irish don't bother to learn the language when they move to the South of Spain but this is a different issue to just being a tourist. As long as a tourist attempts a little bit of the lingo (hola, gracias), I think that shows some respect, even if they're getting the pronunciation wrong but when they don't, that's a different story.

policarp

They also created ghettoes like Playa Flamenca, Cabo Roig, Villa Martin, Cuidad Quesada etc. where the signs over the shops, pubs and restaurants are in english only and the predominant language spoken is english.

hardCopy

It cuts both ways, I work for a Spanish company and hear terrible attempts at english every day (if I can actually convince them to speak english)

Lot of people from lots of countries don't do well with foreign languages.

Clareboy

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I teach English to Spaniards in Spain and have been doing so for almost 2 years. If you want to see bad pronunciation, sit in on my classes. No matter how many times I correct them, they don't improve and it's down to not caring. They simply don't care whether or not they're saying it correctly or not (for the most part) or not willing to make an effort and remember. It's frustrating as hell.

The Spanish translate most things into their own langauge, including place names or they'll just pronounce as they would in Spanish and it doesn't bother them. What makes it worse is that they're getting classes in the language...they supposedly speak the language...these Irish and English tourists aren't. They're just tourists who don't speak the local lingo and how do they know how it's pronounced?

What REALLY bugs me how many Brits and Irish don't bother to learn the language when they move to the South of Spain but this is a different issue to just being a tourist. As long as a tourist attempts a little bit of the lingo (hola, gracias), I think that shows some respect, even if they're getting the pronunciation wrong but when they don't, that's a different story.

I agree, I once met this English guy who was moving to Spain and he had only three Spanish words - Dos Huevos Fritos - Two fried eggs!

LordSutch

Clareboy wrote: »

Now the English may still have illusions of ‘ The Empire’, but I cannot ever understand why we Irish have to ape them in their arrogance.

No they don't, so let me stop you there :rolleyes: however, I do agree with you about the linguistic arrogance of 'some' Irish and English visitors to many countries. Spain, Portugal, Germany, or maybe even 'Thailand' which the Irish in particular have major problems with . . .

problemchimp

I have difficulty with the Clare accent! Don't understand a word of it!

Frank Black

Clareboy wrote: »

I agree, I once met this English guy who was moving to Spain and he had only three Spanish words - Dos Huevos Fritos - Two fried eggs!

Which was not only useful for ordering breakfast, but allowed him to describe his girlfriend's tits to his Spanish colleagues.

Clareboy

problemchimp wrote: »

I have difficulty with the Clare accent! Don't understand a word of it!

I too have problems with the Dublin accent - The Pleece! ( The Gardai)

problemchimp

So good to see that you understand people have different accents. Maybe as posted earlier by careca11 their is a bit of snobbery going on here.

policarp

Clareboy wrote: »

One does not have to speak Spanish in order to pronounce a name properly. Spanish is a Latin based language - it's not Russian or Arabic.

I have heard some deliberately mispronouncing Gracias.
"Grassy arse" and they think it's very funny.

dpe

OP, while I may agree with your assessment of linguistic laziness on the part of the anglophone world (its not just the British and Irish), you come across as a pretentious twat.

Its also kind of ironic that you say this when most foreigners wouldn't have a prayer of correctly pronouncing anything in Irish.

Clareboy

dpe wrote: »

OP, while I may agree with your assessment of linguistic laziness on the part of the anglophone world (its not just the British and Irish), you come across as a pretentious twat.

Its also kind of ironic that you say this when most foreigners wouldn't have a prayer of correctly pronouncing anything in Irish.

Yes, I am a pretentious twat, and proud of it! Better than being a brainless twit, I say!