Stadiums not being used

sendit

The GAA has all these nice grounds but they never get filled or even half filled. Some might only get one game a year at most. The likes of the Gaelic Grounds, Nolan Park, Casement Park, Dr. Hyde, Salthill, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, St. Jarlath's Park, Pearse Stadium. There shold be more double hearders in theses stadiums like in Wexford Park at the weekend. I dont see why every game has to be played in Croke Park with small crowds when a 20,000 to 30,000 seater stadium could be filled. Portlaoise is used often enough but even then theres never big crowds so why not try some place ealse.

For provincial finals they should move them around each year to different stadiums in the province, this will give the stadium some use and be good for what ever town its being played in.

aidan24326

It's a bit of a joke alright, loads of big stadia around the country that are rarely if ever full, and some that are barely even used.

The Mayo county board increased the capacity of McHale Park up to 40,000. Total waste of money, considering it will probably never be full and the only time it would ever get any sort of a big crowd would be for a Galway Mayo championship game, and that's every second year maybe.

What was needed was more small compact venues, with capcity of maybe 12-15,000. Not all these big white elephants like McHale Park, Breffni Park and The Gaelic Grounds in Limerick with big capacity that far exceeds demand.

popebenny16

Premium ticket holders wont renew unless the big games are played in Croke Park.

rebel girl 15

sendit wrote: »

The GAA has all these nice grounds but they never get filled or even half filled. Some might only get one game a year at most. The likes of the Gaelic Grounds, Nolan Park, Casement Park, Dr. Hyde, Salthill, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, St. Jarlath's Park, Pearse Stadium. There shold be more double hearders in theses stadiums like in Wexford Park at the weekend. I dont see why every game has to be played in Croke Park with small crowds when a 20,000 to 30,000 seater stadium could be filled. Portlaoise is used often enough but even then theres never big crowds so why not try some place ealse.

For provincial finals they should move them around each year to different stadiums in the province, this will give the stadium some use and be good for what ever town its being played in.

I presume you mean intercounty games?? Because you should take PuiC out of that list - Thurles and PuiC are the two most used in Munster

sendit

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I presume you mean intercounty games?? Because you should take PuiC out of that list - Thurles and PuiC are the two most used in Munster

How often is it full? Páirc Uí Chaoimh i mean

DodgeyKeeper

sendit wrote: »

How often is it full? Páirc Uí Chaoimh i mean

The title of the thread is "Stadiums not being used". PUC gets a fair few games each year. Has already hosted two senior football games. In Munster only 3 stadiums would be seen as championship worthy as the Waterford and Clare venues are seen as too small. Also many counties have arrangements in place which will invariably affect where matches are played.Such as Cork and Tipp rotate the venue between themselves

mikemac

Could never get my head around the Gaelic Grounds and Thomand Park so close together and they both spend millions to redevelop.

If ever there was a prime opportunity for ground sharing it was here.
Different codes but the grounds keepers would sort the pitch and posts easily in time for fixtures

rebel girl 15

sendit wrote: »

How often is it full? Páirc Uí Chaoimh i mean

See below!

DodgeyKeeper wrote: »

The title of the thread is "Stadiums not being used". PUC gets a fair few games each year. Has already hosted two senior football games.

mikemac wrote: »

Could never get my head around the Gaelic Grounds and Thomand Park so close together and they both spend millions to redevelop.

If ever there was a prime opportunity for ground sharing it was here.
Different codes but the grounds keepers would sort the pitch and posts easily in time for fixtures

I don't think it would have been that easy - it would have required huge amount of paperwork, and very possibly a change in the GAA rulebook about the use of GAA grounds for other sports. So the GAA may have had to give up ownership and other issues, so it was easier - though the Gaelic Grounds really has been left without many big games, irrc, no senior intercouty game there last year

Mountainlad

I don't think Pairc Ui Caoimh should be used when avoidable. Obviously it's impossible to do so with the Tipp v Cork agreement, but for other games because the place is a tip. Sure, it's a lovely walk, but the under stadium area is shocking, the leg room for seats is outrageous and we all know about the turnstile fiasco's over the past few years.

I know they're renovating and expanding but until such a time I believe they should not be in used. Naturally, financial implications must be involved in terms of financing the improvements but it really is showing disregard to spectators.

longpuck

Dont understand why there so many big stadiums that can hold 30/40k of people when theres hardly even going to be that many people in them. Noting worse then playing in 30,000 seater stadium when there only 700/800 people in it.

What would have been a much better idea would have been to build more 10/15 k stadiums

J Cheever Loophole

It is a criminal waste of resources (money) to have so many large stadia that are rarely filled. One of the finest grounds in Ulster is Breffni Park - when Armagh played there in the Ulster quarter-final in 2008, there was a crowd of over 23,000. I believe that is the only 20,000+ crowd that has been there since it's rennovation.

There was also an interesting story told a number of years ago, when Sean Kelly was President, and he was up in Derry on a visit. The Derry County Board showed him ambitious plans to make Celtic Park a 32,000 capacity stadium. Kelly's response was something along the lines of, 'Very impressive lads, but what do you need a stadium that size for?' The question apparently brought about serious introspection and the plans were subsequently totally scaled back to maintain the current capacity but with upgraded facilities.

IMHO opinion, each Province should have a 50K stadium, and a 20-30K stadium, and all the rest should be 10-15K, with spectator comfort - increased modern seating and cover - as a priority.

Mountainlad

I like that idea though it's probably gone beyond that at this stage. Plus, you'd have conflicts as a result of people wanting their County to get that stadium.

J Cheever Loophole

Mountainlad wrote: »

I like that idea though it's probably gone beyond that at this stage. Plus, you'd have conflicts as a result of people wanting their County to get that stadium.

Agreed with that, but that's the very reason why we are where we are - Cork have plans in the pipeline for a 60,000 all seater, Kerry hope to extend Fitzgerald Stadium to 50,000, Semple Stadium already holds 56,000 (?) and Clare certainly had ambitions to move to a brand new 42,000 all seater, in a deal that would involve moving from Cusack Park (although not sure if that is still happening).

Opelfruit

Mountainlad wrote: »

I like that idea though it's probably gone beyond that at this stage. Plus, you'd have conflicts as a result of people wanting their County to get that stadium.

Back in the 1980s Connacht decided that most resources should be invested in making one of the five county grounds a top class facility. All five counties agreed. The problem arose when Sligo, Leitrim and Roscommon all voted for Dr Hyde Park to be the main provincial ground. Mayo and Galway threw their toys out of the pram as each believed that they had the right to have the stadium within their borders.

The result is the Connacht has second rate, oversized facilities in Roscommon, Carrick, Sligo, Castlebar, Tuam (fifth rate) and the white elephant in Salthill.

In the TV era the days of the huge prilgrimages to Connacht finals are over and no match is ever going to get over 30,000 again. An independent, top class, modern GAA stadium should have been built. All Connacht finals should have been played there. Each county could then have upgraded their county stadium to a 10 or 15 thousand stadium where small provincial, qualifiers, league and county finals could have been played.

There are loads of reasons why that would never happen so we're stuck with what we have.

Son of Stupido

If the championship structure was reformed, so as to have a round robin stage where all teams got at least 5 or 6 games before the knockout stages (like in rugby or champions league) you would get better use of the grounds

Totally agree with the thread, a lot of empty underused grounds around the place.

Needs a bit of imagination to improve the situation!

popebenny16

in Munster Cork and Tipp Hurlers play a home and away venue each year, and so does Cork and Kerry Footballers so Killarney gets a go every so often. Rationale is that these matches can attract upwards of 40,000 to 50,000 if played in a final so that is three stadiums tied up and used frequently enough. However, they certainly are not all used with enough frequencey to justify the costly upgrading they are looking for. For the most part, Thurles excepted, they are concrete shells, with three quaters terracing open to the elements and one seated stand (PUC just has seats stuck on the terracing across from the main stand).

Limerick, though, just makes no sense at all. Clare wont happen, becuse it depended on the properly bubble/developers which I happen to be happy with, I think Ennis is a nice ground.

In Leinster, the Ccouncil does try to move things around a bit, with the exception of Dublin Senior Footballers, so you have KK in Wexford Park, Dublin v Galway in Tullamore. There is nobody pretending though that any ground apart from Croke Park can play a provincial final which is the problem in the other three provinces where you have several venues which can host the final. I dont know if Galway/Mayo do the home and away thing and from what I hear the new Casement Park will host all the future Ulster Finals which means Clones is gone.

Its just a legacy thing, they are there, and no county will give up the right to host a provincial final.

Icaras

In Meath Pairc Tailteann is used a fair bit for senior football and hurling championship games -final, SF, QF (I think), and one or two group games (I think we played 2 or 3 group games in it last year), also is a fair few mid week games in them maybe twice a month for the summer months - junior, underage etc. What annoys me is they charge €15-€20 in so only family members and die hards go to the game whereas if the charged €5 more people would go and while they mightnt make more profit there would be a better atmosphere which would encourage more people to go to games.

Mountainlad

JESUS, I knew about Cork but didn't know about Killarney or Clare's plans. That would be ridiculous.

They probably do in some ways have to reform the sructure but at the same time if they did, that would be no excuse to start elaborately opening new grounds at huge expense.

Flukey

It is only really Croke Park and Clones that are constants for provincial finals, whereas the other two provinces do vary. As we saw a number of years back, even Clones lost the Ulster Final to Croke Park for a few years. Certainly Croke Park doesn't get the crowds it should, and it does ruin things a bit, even if the crowd that is there would be too big to fit in any other ground. The teams themselves want to play in Croke Park too, don't forget. Crowds have dropped off a lot. While we moan about the sunshine fans, and soon threads about them will start to appear, one thing you can say in their favour is that they do help bring an atmosphere to a ground, wherever it may be.

I remember when one of the best days of the year in Croke Park, outside of the All-Ireland finals, was Leinster Hurling semi-finals day. You used to get two good games and big crowds. Kilkenny, Wexford, Offaly and one other made for a good day's hurling. Kilkenny's modern dominance diluted one of those two matches, and the other doesn't have quite the edge in recent years as it once did, despite the way the power base below Kilkenny has shifted somewhat between the other contenders. Now those matches have been moved from Croke Park. It is good for the other grounds to get those matches, but we have lost what once was a great day in Croke Park. If only the sunshine fans would brave the weather a bit earlier and join the rest of us.

nice_guy80

Well, it goes back to local politics in the GAA

In Munster Semple should be designated the venue for all finals in hurling. Then there wouldn't be the need for huge stadiums in Limerick and Cork.
but the Munster council doesn't work like that.
In football you really only have big games between Kerry and Cork.

In Connacht Hyde Park was actually designated the neutral venue for Connacht finals - it is easiest town to get in and out of and is most central county town in the province. But Galway and Mayo used their influence got the decision reversed and proceeded to build their own over priced monstrosities in Salthill and Castlebar (with some funding from croke park - which just shows the lack of joined up thinking in the GAA)

ardmacha

Ulster is now moving towards a reasonable balance. Fermanagh, Armagh, Down, Tyrone and Derry have grounds with 14000-18000 capacity with a comfortable covered stand holding 4500-6000. These grounds can be substantially filled in a league game between neighbours e.g. Tyrone/Armagh or Armagh/Down. Cavan has a bigger ground, but it is more central in Ireland and can pick up more neutral games. Casement will be state of the art when redeveloped with the money that might have gone to the Maze stadium and will be used for finals, Clones will end up with semi-finals involving teams from from that side of the province and some qualifiers etc.

J Cheever Loophole

ardmacha wrote: »

Cavan has a bigger ground, but it is more central in Ireland and can pick up more neutral games.

Your general points about Ulster are absolutely spot on - the only minor point I would add is what you have mentioned about Breffni Park above - it's central location in Ireland does indeed mean it gets neutral games, e.g. we played Mayo there in the 2004 All Ireland Under 21 Final, and from memory, the crowd was someting like 15,000.

However unfortunately for Cavan, it is not central in Ulster, and therefore unlikely to get neutral Ulster Championship games which would generate crowds that might fill its capacity.

In contrast to today, back in the 1970s and 1980s, the use of Clones for any Ulster Championship match outside the final was very rare indeed, and consequently Cavan got more of the action - this was in the days of the Breffni Park 'hill'. I recall Armagh playing Monaghan there in a couple of semi-finals, and who from Armagh can forget our two matches in 1993 against All Ireland Champions Donegal, when our six game odyssey never even got us to a Provincial Final - the attendances at all those games were in the region of 25,000.

Gingy

In fairness to SportNI, they have obviously done their research and planned sustainable stadia, the 6 northern counties all have decent grounds, which can realistically be filled, unlike further south where it seemed like a competition for who can build a bigger ground, without proper planning, absolute waste, where money could have been spent on better projects.

Rhys Essien

Mountainlad wrote: »

I don't think Pairc Ui Caoimh should be used when avoidable. Obviously it's impossible to do so with the Tipp v Cork agreement, but for other games because the place is a tip. Sure, it's a lovely walk, but the under stadium area is shocking, the leg room for seats is outrageous and we all know about the turnstile fiasco's over the past few years.

I know they're renovating and expanding but until such a time I believe they should not be in used. Naturally, financial implications must be involved in terms of financing the improvements but it really is showing disregard to spectators.

+1.
The health and safety authority should be keeping this place closed in its current condition.A cattle mart would be better looking.

DB10

They might fill up more if prices were more in line with the times. Economics would dictate that games SHOULD NOT be increasing in price now in recession from lower prices a couple of years ago.

Ulster QF tomorrow in Breffini, giving rain as the weather and €28 into the stand?

Madness I tell you!:eek:

K-9

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Your general points about Ulster are absolutely spot on - the only minor point I would add is what you have mentioned about Breffni Park above - it's central location in Ireland does indeed mean it gets neutral games, e.g. we played Mayo there in the 2004 All Ireland Under 21 Final, and from memory, the crowd was someting like 15,000.

However unfortunately for Cavan, it is not central in Ulster, and therefore unlikely to get neutral Ulster Championship games which would generate crowds that might fill its capacity.

In contrast to today, back in the 1970s and 1980s, the use of Clones for any Ulster Championship match outside the final was very rare indeed, and consequently Cavan got more of the action - this was in the days of the Breffni Park 'hill'. I recall Armagh playing Monaghan there in a couple of semi-finals, and who from Armagh can forget our two matches in 1993 against All Ireland Champions Donegal, when our six game odyssey never even got us to a Provincial Final - the attendances at all those games were in the region of 25,000.

If Casement gets an upgrade and starts getting Ulster finals, Breffni is going to suffer as Clones probably will get preferred for neutral games.

The Lopper

It is not just Tipp and Cork that have an agreement in Munster, Limerick also have an agreement with Tipperary and Cork. The problem then in Cork and especially Limerick has been the drop in fortunes of the county team. The redevelopment of Páirc na nGael would have been planned in the early 00s - soon after the heyday of the 90s, when just for one example, the Tipp - Limerick Munster semi final of 1997 attracted over 50,000 people, and also on the back of the U-21 successes, so it wouldn't have been outrageous to expect many big games there. Instead we have witnessed both Limerick and Clare (who would traditionally have also played games in the Gaelic Grounds as a neutral venue) decline, to the extent where a Limerick-Waterford game today only attracted 15,000 people, with many expecting Limerick to be out of their depth.

There were too many big stadiums built for sure, but I can understand why Limerick was developed. It has also been unlucky in that the GAA now seems to reckon that everything should go to Thurles, or on the off-chance Páirc Uí Chaoimh, which is an absolute kip.