Opening an Airsoft club/site indoor/outdoor

tekkenman

hi Guys,

i'm looking to open a new Airsoft site in Dublin area or co.Dublin, just wondering if anyone can point me the right direction on the process?
do i need a license?
where can i apply for a license?
what about insurance?
do i need to notify the police?

any information is a great help.

thank you all in advance
tekkenman

defenderdude

If you are serious about opening an airsoft site, you should contact the IAA and familiarise yourself with both health and safety and legal requirements and obligations.

They should get back to you with information and assistance pretty quickly.

There's also plenty of documentation/information on the site.

http://irishairsoft.ie/

Here's the basic venue guidelines:
http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/iaa_venue_guidelines.pdf

Here's the Criminal Justice MPB 2009 as amended, indicating requirements and potential penalties...
http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/criminal-justice-miscellaneous-provisions-bill-2009_passed.pdf


Yes, you need insurance.
yes, you need to contact the Gardai - the local Super for the proposed area and get his permission.

Personally I'd question the viability of another site in the Dublin area...

It's a bit of reading but very important if you are serious.
Best of luck.

tekkenman

defenderdude wrote: »

If you are serious about opening an airsoft site, you should contact the IAA and familiarise yourself with both health and safety and legal requirements and obligations.

They should get back to you with information and assistance pretty quickly.

There's also plenty of documentation/information on the site.

http://irishairsoft.ie/

Here's the basic venue guidelines:
http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/iaa_venue_guidelines.pdf

Here's the Criminal Justice MPB 2009 as amended, indicating requirements and potential penalties...
http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/criminal-justice-miscellaneous-provisions-bill-2009_passed.pdf


Yes, you need insurance.
yes, you need to contact the Gardai - the local Super for the proposed area and get his permission.

Personally I'd question the viability of another site in the Dublin area...

It's a bit of reading but very important if you are serious.
Best of luck.

thank you for all the info, i have already emailed irishairsoft but i havent received any reply yet. i will have a look at all the links. thank you!

Arkslippy

tekkenman wrote: »

hi Guys,

i'm looking to open a new Airsoft site in Dublin area or co.Dublin, just wondering if anyone can point me the right direction on the process?
do i need a license?
where can i apply for a license?
what about insurance?
do i need to notify the police?

any information is a great help.

thank you all in advance
tekkenman

I think the starting place is to consider the normal start up points needed for any new venture.

is it a commercial venture or a members club, non profit thing.

Is there a market?

for an indoor or outdoor site, how much is rental and how many people do I need to turn up every week, allowing extra for the inevitable quiet weeks.

can I open all year or limited.

is it a full time job or a part-time hobby.

does my location bring me into conflict with an existing site and can I offer anything unique or that will bring in players.

is there a user base or will people travel.

public transport

then investment, do you have money for deposits it equipment,

can you afford to make a loss at the start, if it fails, do you owe money.

and that's just for starters

horgan_p

tekkenman wrote: »

hi Guys,

i'm looking to open a new Airsoft site in Dublin area or co.Dublin, just wondering if anyone can point me the right direction on the process?
do i need a license?
where can i apply for a license?
what about insurance?
do i need to notify the police?

any information is a great help.

thank you all in advance
tekkenman

Do your own market research,employ knowledgable professional people to advise you, make your decisions based in that.

Think about it - would any sane person open a business based on what anonymous users on the internet say ? didn't think so.

Airsoft Reloded

horgan_p wrote: »

Do your own market research,employ knowledgable professional people to advise you, make your decisions based in that.

Think about it - would any sane person open a business based on what anonymous users on the internet say ? didn't think so.

We spent a year doing research into the potential of the area and the turn over between gamers and airsofters e.t.c. before we moved forward.

Saying that opening yet another site (indoor or outdoor) in Dublin will most likely fail when you consider the amount of established sites surrounding you.

tekkenman

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

We spent a year doing research into the potential of the area and the turn over between gamers and airsofters e.t.c. before we moved forward.

Saying that opening yet another site (indoor or outdoor) in Dublin will most likely fail when you consider the amount of established sites surrounding you.

thanks for your advise.

TheDoc

tekkenman wrote: »

thanks for your advise.

He makes a good point.

Youll be trying to pinch away players who pretty much have an established home which is very hard to do, outside of that your hoping to get new players into the game and into your site.

I genuinely think its madness for people opening new sites, especially in Dublin, unless your offering something insanely better then whats offer, and the bar is pretty high as is.

Shiva

TheDoc wrote: »

I genuinely think its madness for people opening new sites, especially in Dublin, unless your offering something insanely better then whats offer, and the bar is pretty high as is.

Also, and I'm not trying to run you down or be negative, but if you have to ask those kind of questions, you probably dont know a lot about airsoft, and definitely dont know much about running a site.

You'd be competing against experts like Brian, Damo, Bren and Paul who have been running for years.

Invest your money on something you'll see a return on, for your own sake.

whyiotta

Shiva wrote: »

You'd be competing against experts like Brian, Damo, Bren and Paul who have been running for years.

.

you know it really annoys me when people run people down and when i see the above statement it really makes my blood boil, everybody must bow tO the above mentioned gods for f**k sake, you know that not all the sites we play in are brilliant if you could take a bit from each you would have a good one, there is no 1 site that is the best each one as there good as well as their many BAD points so i think another site is good, people dont want you do it in dublin why? because they will loose money thats all competition is good for the consumer which makes for better prices, games and development of sites rather than the same pallet or tyre yawn

My advise GO for it and F**K THEM ALL

Witcher

whyiotta wrote: »

My advise GO for it and F**K THEM ALL

That attitude would have you back in the dole queue in the blink of an eye.

OP, seriously consider the pro and cons of doing this, it's a lot of money to be investing and as with any business no guarantee of success. As has been said do market research, talk to other site operators and retailers, talk to players near the potential area. Make sure it's viable before you spend money on the idea.

whyiotta

Blay wrote: »

That attitude would have you back in the dole queue in the blink of an eye.

blay u dont know what his reasoning or finances is but one thing for sure you wont become a multimillionaire owning a site

especially if you where 100% offical ie charged vat, rent, rates, electricity, insurance, solictor & accountant fees & staff wages, i will bet my home on it that not 1 site in ireland is 100% legite no matter what they say!

Witcher

whyiotta wrote: »

blay u dont know what his reasoning or finances is but one thing for sure you wont become a multimillionaire owning a site

especially if you where 100% offical ie charged vat, rent, rates, electricity, insurance, solictor & accountant fees & staff wages, i will bet my home on it that not 1 site in ireland is 100% legite no matter what they say!

I never mentioned his financial status, I suggested that an attitude of 'fcuk them all' would untimately be ruinous to a new business.

As for sites not being legitimate, the IAA have several confirmed as conforming to above regulations and I'm sure even the sites not affiliated to the IAA are properly insured etc. also with new legislation incoming sites will have to provide the correct documents to be allowed to operate.

whyiotta

Blay wrote: »

I never mentioned his financial status, I suggested that an attitude of 'fcuk them all' would untimately be ruinous to a new business.

As for sites not being legitimate, the IAA have several confirmed as conforming to above regulations and with new legislation incoming sites will have to provide the correct documents to be allowed to operate.

blay i know what your saying but i was a manager of a large transport company in dublin and i know what i paid for rates alone for the small size warehouse of 20,000 sqft, their is no way in hell i could afford to pay rates if i used the warehouse for airsoft, i would need to operate 7 days a week 24hrs a day with a least 200 rentals a day just to pay rates.

What the IAA require for membership i dont know? so i cannot comment on it

bullets

I'd always welcome a new site! but if its in the Dublin....ish area I cant help but feel that it may not survive long term due to other sites already opened and possibly not enough bodies to go around.
(I'm not a regular skirmisher but I fully support the growth of the sport)

Can see already with Stores there are too many for the Irish Market and some are suffering, I can see the same thing happening if another Skirmish site opened in Dublin Area (from an outsider looking in perspective)

A new site some counties would SCREAM for but in my own opinion right or wrong my own feeling is just not another one for Dublin.

Take a look at a map of sites and compare the Dublin Area to the rest of the country. Its pretty dense and you gotta wonder is a business or venture viable or worth the time and effort.

The West of Ireland seems to be severely lacking that if I was to open a site and if
I was not bound by location would be a place I would pick if trying to open a site.

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~B

Inari

Whyiotta, I think you missed Shiva's point - he was not saying that everyone, nor indeed anyone, should 'bow down' to the aforementioned sites, merely that the Dublin market is saturated. Not just saturated with sites, but with sites run by experienced lads who have carved their market into a niche activity.

Opening up another site in the same area dilutes the playerbase even more, which makes the business even less viable. This is a point you backed up yourself, saying that it's not really a business you'll get significant return from, and that if you were to run up to legal standards, that you couldn't even make ends meet. That says clearly that it is NOT a viable business, and therefore is not worth it. Why? Risk over gain...your gain should ALWAYS outweigh the risk. Risking a lot to gain a little is akin to the famous Richard Branson quote

"The fastest road to becoming a millionaire, is to start out as a billionaire"

eadyzrx1200

Dublin is well looked after in terms of sites, should look at the midlands which is sadly lacking in sites since MAZ closed. Then again you need to find where MAZ went wrong, the site itself was great well ahead of many in Dublin but its gone and they are still there.

tekkenman

hi guys, first i would like to thank you all for your advises and those who support me.
i've decided to spend some good time on researching and the first thing i will do is to visit all sites in ireland. take notes and find out what is good and what is bad.
i have some ideas for airsoft sites and i have shared them with a few people and they really like it.

thank you all again

Arkslippy

tekkenman wrote: »

hi guys, first i would like to thank you all for your advises and those who support me.
i've decided to spend some good time on researching and the first thing i will do is to visit all sites in ireland. take notes and find out what is good and what is bad.
i have some ideas for airsoft sites and i have shared them with a few people and they really like it.

thank you all again

Wish you luck with it.

KonFusion

Hi folks,

Rather than start a new thread, I'd just like to confirm some info here.

I work for a local government authority, and I'd be interested in setting up an airsoft site.

The site and it's land(s) would be owned and administered by the local government authority.

A registered private limited company, under the administration of the local authority, would govern the proposed airsoft site, esp. with regards to taxes, staff etc.

Planning permission would not be a problem.

The site/company already has public liability insurance (which would be similar to the public liability insurance of that required of a national park). Would further or differing insurance be required for an airsoft site?

I'm aware permission would be required from the local Garda super.

Is there anything else that'd be required in setting up an airsoft site?? (excluding rentals, site structures etc).

Many thanks.

Arkslippy

KonFusion wrote: »

Hi folks,

Rather than start a new thread, I'd just like to confirm some info here.

I work for a local government authority, and I'd be interested in setting up an airsoft site.

The site and it's land(s) would be owned and administered by the local government authority.

A registered private limited company, under the administration of the local authority, would govern the proposed airsoft site, esp. with regards to taxes, staff etc.

Planning permission would not be a problem.

The site/company already has public liability insurance (which would be similar to the public liability insurance of that required of a national park). Would further or differing insurance be required for an airsoft site?

I'm aware permission would be required from the local Garda super.

Is there anything else that'd be required in setting up an airsoft site?? (excluding rentals, site structures etc).

Many thanks.

Which authority are you with. I know people in all 4 Dublin authorities, might be able to point you in right direction.

KonFusion

Arkslippy wrote: »

Which authority are you with. I know people in all 4 Dublin authorities, might be able to point you in right direction.

I'd rather not say at the moment, at least not until the site is confirmed as going ahead.

Point me in the right direction for what, specifically?

There's a meeting with some department heads on friday, so I'd really like to have as much info as possible to have prepared for then.

Any help in answering my above queries would be greatly appreciated.

Arkslippy

If you are actually an employee of one if the cocos, I'd start with the legal department.

Although I am going to offer my opinion overall and that is that you should not be trying to approach any coco about them opening an airsoft site on lands belonging to them, for gthe simple reason that you are opening airsoft up to a government agency to look at and from there to potential people who may cause issues for the sport in general.

If you are looking for help with getting lands made available to you, contact an taisce who look after forestry.

Airsoft Reloded

As Ark said I'd hit legal first to see if the council would be allowed to run a profit based company (I don't know about all that) then I'd hit the sports department to get thier support and then the enterprise board for thier support.

Once thats done I'd do a s.w.a.t analysis to see if it would be viable and then build a plan around the analysis to bring to the council heads, I really doubt they'll go for it but good luck with it.

It could be either really good or really bad for the sport but a council running an airsoft site would most likely legitimize the thing I think.

KonFusion

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

As Ark said I'd hit legal first to see if the council would be allowed to run a profit based company (I don't know about all that) then I'd hit the sports department to get thier support and then the enterprise board for thier support.

Already been done, and indeed they can run a profit based company. They have several already, one of which will be running the proposed site.

Once thats done I'd do a s.w.a.t analysis to see if it would be viable and then build a plan around the analysis to bring to the council heads, I really doubt they'll go for it but good luck with it.

(Assuming s.w.a.t analysis is the same as a s.w.o.t analysis?) Done. Meeting on friday to confirm insurance and planning, and to decide the land which will be used. (There's 150 acres, possibly more, though not sure how much will be used for airsoft yet. Other areas are going to be possibly be used for other outdoor activities). Then it's off to the super for permission. Is there anything else (of the basic requirements) I'm missing??

It could be either really good or really bad for the sport but a council running an airsoft site would most likely legitimize the thing I think.

Was thinking the same myself. Overall I think (and I'm hoping) it will be great for the sport! Surprisingly I didn't recommend the idea as I thought there'd be no way it'd fly. My boss was the one who recommended it (a non airsofter), got the go ahead, and then asked me to pursue it further. Crazy.

Arkslippy

Good luck with it. I'd suggest you check on the specific insurance as the normal parks and public area liability insurance won't cover you. The no golf signs in the parks are there for a reason.

I'd also have a serious concern regarding mixed use onsite.

Lastly if there is 150 acres of forest that means Fingal and there are already 4 full sites there.

FingalAirsoft

So what you're telling us is that the Co Council is getting in to the business of running an airsoft site for profit?
This should be interesting:rolleyes:

Should this not be a conflict of interests when someone else applies for permission for a site and then get refused because it might interfere with the CC profit margin? Which I might add is not a lot, and any site owner will tell you as much!
I'm not sure if this is a good turn of events to be honest, sure time will tell.

Decoy

There are already a couple of Dublin-area CoCos that have businesses running on their property, they don't necessarily run the facilities themselves but there are going concerns being managed for them. The most notable examples are the golf courses in Stepaside, Marlay Park, Corballis & Sillogue. OK, they're not airsoft sites but the principle is still the same but there is a precedent.

Airsoft Reloded

Yeah thats what I mean't ha ha, I use swat to remember but I guess I forgot to change it back :o

Good luck with it although Ark is right about there being a lot of sites in that area and the more there are the less they all get. If you are in the same area as the other sites why not just play there instead of opening a competing site?

KonFusion

FingalAirsoft wrote: »

So what you're telling us is that the Co Council is getting in to the business of running an airsoft site for profit?
This should be interesting:rolleyes:

Should this not be a conflict of interests when someone else applies for permission for a site and then get refused because it might interfere with the CC profit margin? Which I might add is not a lot, and any site owner will tell you as much!
I'm not sure if this is a good turn of events to be honest, sure time will tell.

Don't know if it'll be run for profit, I'm just assuming so.

I sincerely doubt they'd be refused because it might interfere with the CC profit margin. The planning process for this site is the same as any other.

Arkslippy

I'd be surprised if it happens but good luck with it. The golf courses are actually a bad example, they are part of a green belt requirement and they are owned by councils parks sections, the golf club is run by a management company as an amenity for planning reasons.

KonFusion

If it is mixed use, I wont be involved with those ventures, so can't comment too much on what they will be, if there even will be any. At the moment I'm purely researching. I don't even know for sure if I'll be involved with the airsoft site if it does go ahead, which could be quite some time down the line.

Decoy wrote: »

There are already a couple of Dublin-area CoCos that have businesses running on their property, they don't necessarily run the facilities themselves but there are going concerns being managed for them. The most notable examples are the golf courses in Stepaside, Marlay Park, Corballis & Sillogue. OK, they're not airsoft sites but the principle is still the same but there is a precedent.

Concert's at malahide castle would be another example of an income generating business, the running of which is soon to be taken over by the local coco.

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Yeah thats what I mean't ha ha, I use swat to remember but I guess I forgot to change it back :o

Good luck with it although Ark is right about there being a lot of sites in that area and the more there are the less they all get. If you are in the same area as the other sites why not just play there instead of opening a competing site?

What I'd personally like is there to be monthly milsim type events at the site, not for it to be open on a regular basis as I don't see the need, or reasoning, and I do agree with your point. As I said, my boss recommended it, and I'm not sure what other plans management may have. I wouldn't like to see it competing with other sites at their own game, as the standard is already pretty high, and I don't think it'd be feasible.

Arkslippy

Concerts again are not the same or run by the coco. They are run at a venue by a music promoter, all the coco do is supply the venue for a fee.

Id be mega surprised if Fingal coco would supply staff to run or maintain an airsoft site. Somebody on a vomited would have a freak out, also they wouldn't want the bad pr.

Not their own fault but papers love that kind of **** and you could be sure if it was opening there would be complaints.

Arkslippy

Sorry, but vomited and committee are nearly the same on my auto correct .

Ironic.

Arkslippy

Just had a funny thought. If a Fingal coco health and safety engineer was part of the site. The rules would be
No running
Hi viz jackets for everyone
No swearing
No shooting.

Arkslippy

Just had a funny thought. If a Fingal coco health and safety engineer was part of the site. The rules would be
No running
Hi viz jackets for everyone
No swearing
No shooting.

KonFusion

Arkslippy wrote: »

Concerts again are not the same or run by the coco. They are run at a venue by a music promoter, all the coco do is supply the venue for a fee.

Id be mega surprised if Fingal coco would supply staff to run or maintain an airsoft site. Somebody on a vomited would have a freak out, also they wouldn't want the bad pr.

Not their own fault but papers love that kind of **** and you could be sure if it was opening there would be complaints.

They directly wouldn't supply staff. A private company would. However they would run/administrate that company in a sense.

But I get what your saying.