Praying causes "irreparable harm"

Animord

A federal judge has ordered a Texas school district to prohibit public prayer at a high school graduation ceremony.
Chief U.S. District Judge Fred Biery’s order against the Medina Valley Independent School District also forbids students from using specific religious words including “prayer” and “amen.”
The ruling was in response to a lawsuit filed by Christa and Danny Schultz. Their son is among those scheduled to participate in Saturday’s graduation ceremony. The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/#ixzz1OIZKR836

"irreparable harm"?

I don't agree with schools pushing religion, but what kind of "irreparable harm" do you think this person is going to suffer. And if he is going to suffer then surely it follows that they should ban religion in every place that he is ever going to go.

MagicMarker

Could that article provide any less information? Why would it cause harm to this person who filed the lawsuit?

Anyhow, the ruling is unconstitutional, if I were to attend that event then I would encourage people to pray and, even as an atheist, may even do so myself as a form of protest.

Animord

Yep, I'd be on for going over and doing a bit of praying there too.

The case was brought by 'Americans United for Separation of Church and State' apparently.

Their website: http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2011/05/au-wins-case-challenging.html


and a bit from one of their press releases about the earlier link I posted.

http://blog.au.org/2011/06/01/unfair-and-unbalanced-fox-news-offers-one-side-of-grad-prayer-story/?utm_source=au-homepage&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Recently-on-homepage

The entire interview was focused on how majority of the students wanted the prayer and that now one student has ruined it for all the rest.
The father of the student claimed many times that the prayer is “tradition” and that’s reason enough to include it.
“There is a big Catholic community there,” he said. “So I think it should be done.”
The student’s mother agreed, stating “the majority should be able to say their prayers at whatever function they are at.”
Of course, host Carlson conveniently failed to communicate that this decision only stops official school-sponsored prayer. She also failed to remind viewers that there is a reason why it’s not up to the students or people in the community to decide whether there is an official prayer. When it comes to the Constitution, the majority cannot take away the civil rights of the minority.

Doctor DooM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Could that article provide any less information? Why would it cause harm to this person who filed the lawsuit?

Anyhow, the ruling is unconstitutional, if I were to attend that event then I would encourage people to pray and, even as an atheist, may even do so myself as a form of protest.

Actually, praying at an official school function is unconstitutional in America. I would suggest this article is misleading.

Galvasean

Fox News in misleading article shocker.

liamw

“Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country,” Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio, saying the judge wanted to turn school administrators into “speech police.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/#ixzz1OJ90ocDl

Doctor DooM

I would suggest we wait a couple of days until the blogosphere lights up about this story (which it undoubtedly will).

MrPudding

Overruled.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/03/texas.school.prayer/

MrP

Donatello

On the contrary, prayer can help to reduce health problems. Prayer and meditation can increase serotonin and dopamine production.

It's interesting that for all their talk of tolerance, diversity, and pluralism, there's none more intolerant than liberals in power, who very quickly implement their own, nefarious, totalitarian regime.

This must be resisted with the utmost force by all those of good will.

5uspect

So can masturbation.

Prayer has actually been shown to increase the risk of complications in heart surgery patients.

Hey, look at that, I backed up my statements with evidence.

Zillah

This is a ceremony at a public school, of course one religion should not be able to highjack it. Non-religious or non-Christian students shouldn't have to sufer exclusion while the majority impose their beliefs on a ceremony that should be completely inclusive. State endorsement of religion is unconstitutional.

Freedom isn't just for the majority.

Zombrex

I was interested up until "FOX News"

magicbastarder

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Actually, praying at an official school function is unconstitutional in America.

no, it's not.

The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

both your statement and the above one do not imply that it was an institutionally led prayer, but that any sort of praying is banned. the constitution defends such actions rather than banning them.

Catari Jaguar

Donatello wrote: »

On the contrary, prayer can help to reduce health problems. Prayer and meditation can increase serotonin and dopamine production.

Meditation and prayer are different.

It's not preventing anyone from praying personally themselves to themselves. That's how it should be.

Odd this all comes from the same country that has "In God we trust" written on their money... :rolleyes:

robindch

Donatello wrote: »

This must be resisted with the utmost force

Where exactly does "utmost force" stop?

Sarky

There's probably something in the catechism that can be used to support wiping the other side out as violently as possible.

strobe

robindch wrote: »

Where exactly does "utmost force" stop?

Stop??? What are on about? If God approves it, then it is moral. Torture, murder, coercion... it's all good. It has the God approved stamp. Sh1ts only bad if God doesn't like it... stuff like wearing a nylon/cotton mix shirt, that's evil. Sh1t like murdering Egyptian babies in front of their mothers... That's justice. That sh1t's good. The ends always justify the means ("I said as I pressed the gun to the screaming bank clerks head and squeezed the trigger".).

Doctor DooM

magicbastarder wrote: »

no, it's not.

both your statement and the above one do not imply that it was an institutionally led prayer, but that any sort of praying is banned. the constitution defends such actions rather than banning them.

Actually, I specifically pointed out IF it was an official function they shouldn't be doing it.


Anyway here's something explaining it- I agree, if they were praying on their own time this is a horrid breach of their civil liberties, but if it was some official school function, it's a breach of the first amendment:

Accordingly, the First Amendment forbids religious activity that is sponsored by the government but protects religious activity that is initiated by private individuals, and the line between government-sponsored and privately initiated religious expression is vital to a proper understanding of the First Amendment's scope. As the Court has explained in several cases, "there is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect." Santa Fe Indep. Sch. Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290, 302 (2000).

Prayer in Public School - Drawing the Line of Permissible Expression
The Supreme Court's decisions over the past forty years set forth principles that distinguish impermissible governmental religious speech from the constitutionally protected private religious speech of students. For example, teachers and other public school officials may not lead their classes in prayer, devotional readings from the Bible, or other religious activities. Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962); School Dist. of Abington Twp. v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963). Nor may school officials attempt to persuade or compel students to participate in prayer or other religious activities. Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577, 599 (1992). Such conduct is "attributable to the State" and thus violates the Establishment Clause. Weisman, 505 U.S. at 587.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

Where exactly does "utmost force" stop?

Crusades?

5uspect

From where you least expect it?

Robert ninja

They can just pray to themselves abd nobody would know and then it would also do no harm because praying does nothing.

MrPudding

Robert ninja wrote: »

They can just pray to themselves abd nobody would know and then it would also do no harm because praying does nothing.

But they can't just pray, they can't just keep their faith to themselves. They have to show everyone around them that they are praying.

MrP

georgieporgy

MrPudding wrote: »

But they can't just pray, they can't just keep their faith to themselves. They have to show everyone around them that they are praying.

MrP

Amen to that.

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

They have to show everyone around them that they are praying.

From the religious-economic perspective, there's no point in engaging in some cost-laden ritual if there's no payoff.

Which, no doubt, is why Matthew himself has this to say about people who pray in public:

Matthew 6:5 wrote:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

Not that you hear this verse from the religious all that often...

georgieporgy

robindch wrote: »

From the religious-economic perspective, there's no point in engaging in some cost-laden ritual if there's no payoff.

Which, no doubt, is why Matthew himself has this to say about people who pray in public:Not that you hear this verse from the religious all that often...

If you went to Mass on a regular basis you would hear it from time to time.

And yet in another part of scripture Jesus says "where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name I am present."

And in the Acts of the Apostles there is frequent mention of the early christians gathering together for prayer.

Though it sometimes proved injurious to their health what with the lions and all.