Speer- Genuine remorse or cynical opportunism...

jonniebgood1

Speer was trumpeted by the west for his remorse and for saying he was sorry. Was this not just him saying what a captive audience wanted him to say? I read most of Gitta Serenys book about him which goes into alot of detail but found it slightly to innocent in its outlook. Is it unfair to be cynical about the man, He was a clever man and he used his intellect during WWII to help the Nazi's in their conquests. He gave the standard defence of the death camps that he did'nt know about.

Any views.

OS119

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

...Is it unfair to be cynical about the man, He was a clever man and he used his intellect during WWII to help the Nazi's in their conquests. He gave the standard defence of the death camps that he did'nt know about.

Any views.

i don't think its unfair to be cynical about Speer - he was intelligent, affable and knew how to play to whichever audience he needed to win over. if he could work with Hitler in 1945 and persuade Allied officers of his innocence 6 months later he is the living definition of untrustworthy.

his claims of ignorance are destroyed by his own intelligence and his position within the Germany war economy - he was head of war production, yet he didn't notice that a large part of the German logistical network was being used for non-war purposes, or that very large numbers of German Jews were just 'dissappearing'? do we believe that anyone that intelligent didn't ask himself what was going on, listen to the propaganda of Goebels and the rants of Hitler, put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4?

really, is that credible?

jonniebgood1

OS119 wrote: »

i don't think its unfair to be cynical about Speer - he was intelligent, affable and knew how to play to whichever audience he needed to win over. if he could work with Hitler in 1945 and persuade Allied officers of his innocence 6 months later he is the living definition of untrustworthy.

his claims of ignorance are destroyed by his own intelligence and his position within the Germany war economy - he was head of war production, yet he didn't notice that a large part of the German logistical network was being used for non-war purposes, or that very large numbers of German Jews were just 'dissappearing'? do we believe that anyone that intelligent didn't ask himself what was going on, listen to the propaganda of Goebels and the rants of Hitler, put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4?
really, is that credible?

Firstly - I agree with all this.

Secondly for sake of discussuion I will disagree as follows:

Speer was manipulated by Hitler. The worst of Nazi crimes were hidden from him and he was used for his organisational skills. He was put in charge of technical tasks which were essential in his overall role of armaments production. It is not fair to discredit his credibility for not recognising the 'large numbers of German Jews just 'dissappearing'?' when he may well have had these figures hidden from him. Other than fulfilling his role in armaments his other option was to be imprisoned himself. When the opportunity arose for him to eventually analyse the Nazi agenda he came out honestly admitting to his mistakes and undertook the burden of guilt for his association with Nazi crimes even though he was in no way implicated in these. At the end of the war the Allies put Speer through the same rigours of international law as other suspected war criminals and he served the time for his mistakes honestly.

marcsignal

I read Speers prison diaries back in the 80's and found it a good read, and felt it gave a good insight into the man. However after new information began to come out about him, and new questions were asked about his part in the whole slave labour issue, as well as further scrutiny of his apparent plan to kill hitler in the bunker (now believed to be a fraud), it showed him in a very different light in my eyes.

I re-read the diary a few years ago and couldn't help getting the impression, this time around, that he was trying to convince himself of something.

The fact that he got a jail term, and his subordinate 'Fritz Saukel' got the rope, was a bit odd.

"Speer. Now there is a man you must hang!"

Fritz Saukel 1945

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5009329471

much and all that he accepted a collective responsibility for the crimes of the nazi regime, I cant help getting a feeling of 'poacher turned gamekeeper' from him.

OS119

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

...Speer was manipulated by Hitler. The worst of Nazi crimes were hidden from him and he was used for his organisational skills...

the problem with that argument is that as head of war production, an awful lot of the inmates of concentration camps worked for him. the effect on monthly production figures of having a good percentage of your workforce disappear would be as difficult to ignore as a sunrise - they weren't taking a long weekend on the beaches of the Baltic coast, and in 1945 they weren't being shipped to some new Jewish homeland.

he would have known that the Riech had more trains than both he and the military had access to. he built them.

he would have known that some of his factories suddenly stopped producing when his workforce - that he didn't have to pay - fell off the face of the earth. unless he was a dumb as a bag of hair he would known that bombing raids tend not to kill the workforce while leaving the factory intact.

its quite possible to make a coherent argument that Mr and Mrs Nobody in Heidlberg did not know what was happening, it is not possible to say that the man responsible for war production using slave labour and the use of every train not taking any German male with more than 3.5 limbs to the Eastern Front did not know that something very odd indeed was happening. technical details no, but he must have put the peices together and come up with something fairly near the truth.

hinault

i don't buy Speers apology.

The fact is that as armaments minister, Speer was privy to all detail concerning the production and delivery of weapons to the Nazi war effort.
Remember, German production of weapons actually increased in 1944 even though the tide of the war had turned?

How were these increases achieved? And how in achieving these increases could Speer claim ignorance?

markesmith

hinault wrote: »

i don't buy Speers apology.

Me neither. The culture of the time in Germany was quite anti-Semitic, however subtle. When, of course, Speer protested his ignorance, his affability and thoughtful demeanor made it easier for the West to forgive him.

In the World at War, he comes across as someone who aims to please. If I was in his situation, in a post-war world where Nazism and anti-Semitism was disgraced, I'd have acted the same.

Prefab Sprouter

His greatest achievement was cheating the hangman and yet ensuring that the Allies hung his deputy

Fuinseog

Prefab Sprouter wrote: »

His greatest achievement was cheating the hangman and yet ensuring that the Allies hung his deputy

executed for what exactly. Nurembrg was a farce

Mahatma coat

Speer comes across in that World at War docco as a bit of a Psychopath, he's Pushing all the right buttons and saying all the righ things, but You get the Impression that he Just didint care one way or another, he was ambivilent about Nazism at the time but he just kept the headd down and got on with it.

he knew not to ask

marcsignal

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Secondly for sake of discussuion I will disagree as follows:

Speer was manipulated by Hitler. The worst of Nazi crimes were hidden from him and he was used for his organisational skills. He was put in charge of technical tasks which were essential in his overall role of armaments production. It is not fair to discredit his credibility for not recognising the 'large numbers of German Jews just 'dissappearing'?' when he may well have had these figures hidden from him. Other than fulfilling his role in armaments his other option was to be imprisoned himself. When the opportunity arose for him to eventually analyse the Nazi agenda he came out honestly admitting to his mistakes and undertook the burden of guilt for his association with Nazi crimes even though he was in no way implicated in these. At the end of the war the Allies put Speer through the same rigours of international law as other suspected war criminals and he served the time for his mistakes honestly.

wasn't Speer (or at least his officials) instrumental in the evection of jewish families from Berlin after construction work began on the 'Germania' Project ?

The buildings were meant to uphold the new community spirit of Germany and be a living display of the extent to German’s of their racial community. Speer nevertheless went over the designs with Hitler and started this project by evicting inhabitants from the apartments in the inner city for the start of reconstruction of which out of 52 000 apartments 23 000 belonged to Jewish families. Speer has caused much debate over the years on whether he had any comprehension about the ‘Final Solution or had contributed to the Nazi racial policy,’ but it was Speer’s officials who searched the city for other Jewish flats for those Aryans who that had to be re-housed as their homes were taken

That considered, I'm pretty sure Speer had a fairly good idea of what was going on.

jonniebgood1

marcsignal wrote: »

wasn't Speer (or at least his officials) instrumental in the evection of jewish families from Berlin after construction work began on the 'Germania' Project ?
That considered, I'm pretty sure Speer had a fairly good idea of what was going on.

He didnt deny knowledge of such evictions as far as I know. He acknowledged his acceptance of the anti-semite laws in Germany.

SPEER: I knew that the National Socialist Party was anti-Semitic, and I knew that the Jews were being evacuated from Germany. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/speer.html

Moving populations or even imprisoning people to suit the war effort was not just carried out in Germany- did'nt America incarcarate Japanese people that happened to be on US soil after Pearl harbour.

marcsignal

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Moving populations or even imprisoning people to suit the war effort was not just carried out in Germany- did'nt America incarcarate Japanese people that happened to be on US soil after Pearl harbour.

True, and also rounded up German and Italian Nationals.

on a side note,

It's often overlooked that sterilization of mental patients and habitual criminals was being practiced in 27 American states by 1930, as well as medical experiments like testing Malaria drugs by deliberately infecting prisoners.

German eugenicists looked on in envy apparently.

charlemont

Speer was too high up in the ranks not to have known. I think he was a cold indifferent man who just went with the flow.

Fuinseog

charlemont wrote: »

Speer was too high up in the ranks not to have known. I think he was a cold indifferent man who just went with the flow.

in this country you have politicians who have no idea what is happening on the ground at grass roots level, so its not impossible to believe that he knew little or nothing about the holocaust.

The allies knew everything about the Germans, but apparently they too were ignorant of the holocaust.

what did Speer do wrong. He used slave labour, but the allies also made POws work.