Yamaha 1067 v 2067 AV Amplifier

leinsterman

My current system (an excellent 14 year old combo of an Arcam Alpha 9 & Yamaha DSP-E900) is down on one channel ... I'm trying to decide between sticking with it (assuming I can get it repaired) or upgrading ... In the event that I decide to buy - I've narrowed on two choices, both Yamaha ... but, to be honest, this is based on googling other online forums and without having a proper listen ...

I did get a listen to the 1067 at Peates but it was through crappy front speakers and only compressed stereo from an iPod ... Sadly getting to listen to anything in Dublin is difficult with the quality of stores we have here (Cloney Audio & Peates being the best of a bad bunch AFAIK, but if anyone has other store recommendations please chime in) ...

Has anyone got an experience to offer on the Yamaha RX-V1067 and/or the RX-V2067 ... I'm particularly interested in commentry about if there is value to be had in paying the extra money for the 2067?

I did find some discussion of this topic but I'm interested in others experience ..

BTW - I've seen some wildly different pricing online ... the 1067 is available for as low as STG£599 and the 2067 for as low as STG£729 ... the latter being what looks a dodgy looking store (GiantBuyer.co.uk) ..

Unfortunately none of the Irish vendors were even close to being at the races ... Peates dropped the 1067 to a laughable €950 after a bit of negotiation!! ... and Cloney kept pushing Denon gear which they don't even have available yet!!!

What planet are the Irish vendors operating on with price differences of 40% compared to the UK??

mossym

if you were running an alpha 9 i imagine your main use was stereo music, and as such neither of the options above can come close. what's your main priority, surround sound or decent stereo?

leinsterman

mossym wrote: »

if you were running an alpha 9 i imagine your main use was stereo music, and as such neither of the options above can come close. what's your main priority, surround sound or decent stereo?

Music is the most important for me .. This is why I opted for the two box set all those years ago .. But I was hoping things would have moved on in the 1 box area by now ..

Over the years I have had to add other bit and pieces to connect up my various components .. If I'm having to pay for an upgrade I'd really like to simplify the system which consists of PC music server, Apple TV, UPC box, CD, record deck, Blu ray, octava HDMI / optical Switch, plasma tv & the aforementioned amps ..

mossym

leinsterman wrote: »

Music is the most important for me .. This is why I opted for the two box set all those years ago .. But I was hoping things would have moved on in the 1 box area by now ..

Over the years I have had to add other bit and pieces to connect up my various components .. If I'm having to pay for an upgrade I'd really like to simplify the system which consists of PC music server, Apple TV, UPC box, CD, record deck, Blu ray, octava HDMI / optical Switch, plasma tv & the aforementioned amps ..

the 1 box avr's have added lots of features, but the mainstream ones are still poor for stereo. i'd be worried if you bought one you'd be disappointed with music performance. if i were you i'd buy an avr to simplify your system, but get one with analog pre outs, get your alpha 9 repaired, and use it to drive your front 2 speakers

leinsterman

mossym wrote: »

the 1 box avr's have added lots of features, but the mainstream ones are still poor for stereo. i'd be worried if you bought one you'd be disappointed with music performance. if i were you i'd buy an avr to simplify your system, but get one with analog pre outs, get your alpha 9 repaired, and use it to drive your front 2 speakers

Yep.. I was having the same worry .. The current system is configured exactly as you describe .. I don't even use tone control on the Arcam, which essentially acting as a power amp ..

If I was to take your advice it may be as well to stick with the existing processor .. Despite the upgrades a new one would offer ..


Hmnnn ... Food for thought I suppose .. Need to open up the Alpha and see there is anything obvious wrong .. I did find a connection on my mains out which could have caused a blow in the left channel output stage .. May just be a fuse ..

mossym

leinsterman wrote: »

Yep.. I was having the same worry .. The current system is configured exactly as you describe .. I don't even use tone control on the Arcam, which essentially acting as a power amp ..

If I was to take your advice it may be as well to stick with the existing processor .. Despite the upgrades a new one would offer ..


Hmnnn ... Food for thought I suppose .. Need to open up the Alpha and see there is anything obvious wrong .. I did find a connection on my mains out which could have caused a blow in the left channel output stage .. May just be a fuse ..

i have an alpha 9 with a blown channel sitting on the desk beside me, maybe we can use them together and make 1 decent amp..:)

anyway, never used these guys, but i've seen them linked to a few times. no connection to them whatsoever i should add

http://www.thehifihospital.com/

based in dublin

leinsterman

Thanks ... I was going to pop the Alpha out to Cloney's ...


TBH I'm still interested in the idea of a single AV amp solution ... if the compromise is not too big ... I used to be a proper audiophile, spending more on cables than some people spend on their entire system ...

... but these days I'm a bit cynical about the whole idea ... I really think much of it is a case of the "Emperors New Clothes" .. clever marketing to get us to spend more money out of snobbishness... that said if I truly subscribed to this idea I'd be looking cheaper than the 1067 / 2067 amps ... so I'm only half way there

One thing I do believe is there is no substitute for matching the amp to your speakers ... this can only be done via a demo ...but that option would involve heading to London with my (rather large Castle Harlech floor standing) speaker in the boot to do my shopping ...

If anyone has opinions on the Yamaha's (or other models) ... particularly their ability to handle plan old music ... one of the appealing features they both offer is a button that bypasses everything but the power amp stages (or so their blurb states!) ... this will be used a lot when not watching movies ...

Even with my current AV amp I only use the pure Dolby or (more often) DTS ... I never use all these ridiculous sound field simulation presets .. for me at least, they invariably don't add anything that is not already on the Blu Ray ...

mossym

agree with mopst of your thoguhts, but the amps in avr's are one area the manufactures save mony


i have a denon 3808, not a budget amp but not at the highest end either. sounded amazing on my B&W speakers, but i added a Rotel power amp and it brought it to a different level.

now i'm going to replace the 3808 with a Marantz pro as i want to take advantage of the better pre amp in the marantz for music. it will be used with the same power amp

some of the features are a bit of emperors new clothes, but in honesty a decent pre amp and decent amplifier stage are vital, and AVR's tend to struggle here. your alpha 9 is probably way ahead of any budget AVR here

leinsterman

I ended up going for the Yamaha 2067 from Richersounds Belfast .. they have an excellent returns policy (I can try it out for 7 days at home and if I don't like it I can drop it off to the Philips store in Dublin for a refund or exchange) ... I was very impressed with the attitude of their salesperson Dave on the phone ... full of enthusiasm, accommodating and knowledgeable... not too pushy

Price was good too - £699 for an ex-demo unit ... cheapest I've seen..

This is in contrast to Cloney Audio who seem to have lost the plot since I last made a purchase there over 14 years ago .. the knowledge is still there but they seem to have lost all enthusiasm to sell ... I actually felt like I was intruding in their empty store yesterday afternoon...

I had sent a friend to them a few years ago for a complete house refit and he also commented on their lack of enthusiasm ... now I've seen it for myself ... They used to be so good ... sadly no longer it seems. Could this be a sign that they about to go under?


I'll post here when I get the unit running in case anyone is interested in the follow up ... but I won't be sending any more people to Cloney Audio ... I was surprised when Richersounds went under here in Dublin, maybe there is a need to re-examine the business case for a local store!

mossym

apologies for speaking bluntly, but i think cloney are aiming at higher budgets than yamaha avr's, if they knew that was what you were after they may have decided they would have nothing for you. their cheapest avr is a lot more expensive than a yamaha

will be very interested to hear how you get on with it, especially for 2 channel music

leinsterman

mossym wrote: »

apologies for speaking bluntly, but i think cloney are aiming at higher budgets than yamaha avr's, if they knew that was what you were after they may have decided they would have nothing for you. their cheapest avr is a lot more expensive than a yamaha

Funny enough, I had considered this too ... they definitely seem have moved on to complete home installs over separates ... but they also have a lot of things on display which are well within my budget and I was there to discuss the new Denon range about to launch not Yamaha.

My friend ended up paying something like €8000 for his system, if they can't be enthusiastic about that kind of budget then they are working in a very small market segment! (and yes, I know there are people out there paying €100k plus).

Their "salesman" also said their most popular selling AV unit is/was the Denon 2311 ... which is a model down in class and price (though not at Cloney prices) from the Yamaha 2067 ... so the idea they are out of my price league really doesn't stack up ...

They have always been a bit snooty ... but when someone walks into their empty store ready to spend €1000 on an AV amp I expect a better attitude, its not like the place was thronging with people and I doubt in the current economic climate there are large numbers of people who are willing to part with that kind of cash for Hi-Fi ...

I'll definitely post back here when I have some time with the Yamaha ... but to be honest, I'm not quite as fussy and discerning as I was 14 years ago ... so that may affect things ...

I'll also be bi-amping the main speakers for the first time (previously they were bi-wired from the Alpha) ... so this should also help improve the situation for the Yamaha.

mossym

leinsterman wrote: »

Funny enough, I had considered this too ... they definitely seem have moved on to complete home installs over separates ... but they also have a lot of things on display which are well within my budget and I was there to discuss the new Denon range about to launch not Yamaha.

My friend ended up paying something like €8000 for his system, if they can't be enthusiastic about that kind of budget then they are working in a very small market segment! (and yes, I know there are people out there paying €100k plus).

Their "salesman" also said their most popular selling AV unit is/was the Denon 2311 ... which is a model down in class and price (though not at Cloney prices) from the Yamaha 2067 ... so the idea they are out of my price league really doesn't stack up ...

They have always been a bit snooty ... but when someone walks into their empty store ready to spend €1000 on an AV amp I expect a better attitude, its not like the place was thronging with people and I doubt in the current economic climate there are large numbers of people who are willing to part with that kind of cash for Hi-Fi ...

I'll definitely post back here when I have some time with the Yamaha ... but to be honest, I'm not quite as fussy and discerning as I was 14 years ago ... so that may affect things ...

I'll also be bi-amping the main speakers for the first time (previously they were bi-wired from the Alpha) ... so this should also help improve the situation for the Yamaha.

interesting. i didn't think Cloney did denon. that blows my theory out of the water.

and you're right, not a lot of people buy amps of that price. i;m currently waiting on a Marantz AV7005 processor, not something you can go out and see in a shop very day, not in ireland anyway

leinsterman

My guess is Cloney is infected with a little bit of the disease that seems to be affecting a lot of Irish business ... Head stuck in the boom years, had it too easy for too long resulting in a dose of arrogance ... Forgotten how to compete

leinsterman

So I gave the Yamaha 2067 a good go (which arrived with damaged to the speaker terminals and needed to be returned any way) ...

I'm returning it in exchange for the Denon AVR 3311 for the following reasons -

• Its a teeny bit on the gutless side IMHO, though if it were not for other issues I'd probably be OK with this;
• It lacks warmth in its sound through my Castle Harlechs;
• I'd like to be able to drive the sub-woofer in "Pure Direct" mode which sounds very thin;
• It doesn't drive my Castle sub woofer very well (which keeps kicking in way too slowly) ... and needed a lot of tweaking on the output side to define my own notch filter (which in itself is a nice feature BTW);
• I don't like the multi room mode which doesn't seem to allow certain inputs to be connected with my second zone speakers unless set to Party mode;
• The auto set up is OK but it needs a lot of tweaking;
• I can't bi-Amp the front speakers and have a second zone;
• I suspect I should have listened to advice on taking the Denon 3311 over the Yamaha ... but this will be put to the test at a cost of an additonal UK£100.

In reality what I suspect I'll end up doing is driving the Denon through the repaired Arcam Alpha 9 for my mains and sub-woofer ... but lets see what happens!

There were some positives about the Yamaha ... its very easy to set up and use. The sound is not too bad despite some of my comments above, but I think I may have been expecting too much from it after the experience of the Arcam Alpha 9. It seems the advice of a two amp configuration was wise and is still valid now as it was 14 years ago.

mossym

leinsterman wrote: »

In reality what I suspect I'll end up doing is driving the Denon through the repaired Arcam Alpha 9 for my mains and sub-woofer ... but lets see what happens!

see post #4...i knew you'd get there..:)

leinsterman

mossym wrote: »

see post #4...i knew you'd get there..:)

... sure I kind expected this conclusion also ... pity really, I had hoped things would have moved on technology wise ... but the basics of transistors and quality components in a good fundamental design don't change at the same pace as Moores law makes thing smaller ...

mossym

leinsterman wrote: »

... sure I kind expected this conclusion also ... pity really, I had hoped things would have moved on technology wise ... but the basics of transistors and quality components in a good fundamental design don't change at the same pace as Moores law makes thing smaller ...

you have to throw the manufacturer costs into teh mix, in an ever demanding market, they's had to drop costs to the bare miniumum, meaning lower quality components, price driven pcb layout, and price over performance. also, they've gone from long life cycles to yearly revisions, meaning the same effot isn't put into each model

if you want to get the bang for the buck, and need both mucic and surround performance, then a processor/power amp may be the way to go. i'm moving that way if marantz ever start shipping their processor again, it's probably the best compromise you will get

leinsterman

Well, after trying both the Yamaha 2067 and Denon 3311, my conclusion is I've wasted my money ...

The repaired Arcam Alpha 9 is now back in play doing what it has done best for the last 14 years ... I'm using the Denon 3311 to feed it ... But if it were not for the hassle factor I'd be back with the Yamaha 2067 ... which is way easier to use, has a few more useful features and is much the same sound wise .. TBH the original Yamaha E800 was sufficient for my needs but it's useful to have everything in one AV box ..

Lessons learnt .. Money wasted .. C'est la vie!

millhouse

Leinsterman the new Denon models have just been released so the 3311 has been upgraded to the AVR3312. Lots of new great features and with some decent speakers sounds the bomb . Exclusive Audio in Sandyford have them in stock and are running some great deals with the amps & speakers. They will set it up for you with a pair of Monitor Audio or Linn Speakers so you can have a really good listen. A couple of the guys are real Hifi heads so they know what they are at. If you haven't bought yet this is the way to go.