Water Meters in apartments ?

Delancey

Will it be possible that in a block of, say , 50 apartments every unit would be fitted with a meter or would it be just some sort of ' super meter ' for the block ?

yoshytoshy

They'd have to at least seperate the public areas from the apartments ,I'd say it would be added into the management fees.
The council is not responsible for most new apartment blocks ,the management company is.

heinbloed

The idea is to save water, to conserve resources. Therefore it makes no sense to take the consumer out of the water purchase decision.
The consumer laws demand a metered product to be sold, so water which is charged for individually must be meassured individually.
Every consumer(household) will have his own meter.
This would not have to be based within the flat or house, a communal metering room (for example in an apartment block) is the prefered choice. For ease of billing, if an apartment isn't used for a long time how else can the water consumption be read ?

creedp

yoshytoshy wrote: »

They'd have to at least seperate the public areas from the apartments ,I'd say it would be added into the management fees.
The council is not responsible for most new apartment blocks ,the management company is.

You would have to question the efficiency of installing a seperate meter for every apartment in circumstances where apartments, unlike houses, don't have the capacity to be heavy consumers of water, i.e. they won't have gardens to water/cars to wash/ swimming pools to fill/won't run their taps in winter to stop them freezing/etc. seems to me a bit of an overkill but I suppose it will appease the greens and will create employment during their installation and guarantee jobs in terms of reading these bloody meters. I would supsect for the most part though that apartment owners will be much less likely to exceed their allocated allowance. I think thesuggestion that a block meter is better because for many blocks the use of water for gardens and common area cleaning etc should be shared equally amongst all residents.

Outkast_IRE

creedp wrote: »

You would have to question the efficiency of installing a seperate meter for every apartment in circumstances where apartments, unlike houses, don't have the capacity to be heavy consumers of water, i.e. they won't have gardens to water/cars to wash/ swimming pools to fill/won't run their taps in winter to stop them freezing/etc. seems to me a bit of an overkill but I suppose it will appease the greens and will create employment during their installation and guarantee jobs in terms of reading these bloody meters. I would supsect for the most part though that apartment owners will be much less likely to exceed their allocated allowance. I think thesuggestion that a block meter is better because for many blocks the use of water for gardens and common area cleaning etc should be shared equally amongst all residents.

Ya but what if your a single person living in a apartment and theres a big family in another , how would it be fair for you to pay the same as them ? you obviously couldnt consume as much, and also you incentive for conservation is lost.

Goodne

creedp wrote: »

You would have to question the efficiency of installing a seperate meter for every apartment in circumstances where apartments, unlike houses, don't have the capacity to be heavy consumers of water, i.e. they won't have gardens to water/cars to wash/ swimming pools to fill/won't run their taps in winter to stop them freezing/etc. seems to me a bit of an overkill but I suppose it will appease the greens and will create employment during their installation and guarantee jobs in terms of reading these bloody meters. I would supsect for the most part though that apartment owners will be much less likely to exceed their allocated allowance. I think thesuggestion that a block meter is better because for many blocks the use of water for gardens and common area cleaning etc should be shared equally amongst all residents.

I don't know whether to laugh or be angry at this post. I don't understand your reasoning that apartment dwellers would use less water that people in houses. Not every (or any that I know) house has a swimming pool, people who live in apartments are allowed to have cars too & I'm sure they occassionaly use a carwash facility like most people do & there is not much point running a tap constantly during the winter when its the water mains running into the estate that freezes. But yes you right I do have a garden that I water most days but I use saved rainwater to do that.

yoshytoshy

Goodne wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or be angry at this post. I don't understand your reasoning that apartment dwellers would use less water that people in houses. Not every (or any that I know) house has a swimming pool, people who live in apartments are allowed to have cars too & I'm sure they occassionaly use a carwash facility like most people do & there is not much point running a tap constantly during the winter when its the water mains running into the estate that freezes. But yes you right I do have a garden that I water most days but I use saved rainwater to do that.

Creedp made a fair point ,apartments generally have a max of two toilets and aren't extendable. They don't have the facilities to waste water outside of the dwelling.

Goodne

"Creedp made a fair point ,apartments generally have a max of two toilets and aren't extendable. They don't have the facilities to waste water outside of the dwelling. "
Ok so two toilets - I have 2 toilets in my house but if I had 4 it wouldn't mean I would have to use the toilet more often, it would just mean that I could pick & choose where I went!

yoshytoshy

Goodne wrote: »

"Creedp made a fair point ,apartments generally have a max of two toilets and aren't extendable. They don't have the facilities to waste water outside of the dwelling. "
Ok so two toilets - I have 2 toilets in my house but if I had 4 it wouldn't mean I would have to use the toilet more often, it would just mean that I could pick & choose where I went!

Nobody is suggesting anyone gets free water ,only that apartments should pay a set amount to the management company ,who in turn has to pay the council for the supply up to the apartment development.
The council will have to install a meter at the point of feed to apartment developments and it's then up to management how they distribute the cost.

aujopimur

Most modern app blocks should have independent supplies fed from a manifold chamber which has provision for seperate water meters.

dathi

stayed in an old apartment in paris last year it had a water meter where the water entered the apartment if they can do it cant see why we cant. as to apartments wasting less water thats rot we all have the same bad habits , single flush toilets , 20 min power showers leaving the tap on when we wash our teeth, etc,individual water wastage would be fairly consistant between apartment owners and house owners

yoshytoshy

dathi wrote: »

stayed in an old apartment in paris last year it had a water meter where the water entered the apartment if they can do it cant see why we cant. as to apartments wasting less water thats rot we all have the same bad habits , single flush toilets , 20 min power showers leaving the tap on when we wash our teeth, etc,individual water wastage would be fairly consistant between apartment owners and house owners

Nearly all of europe has water meters ,they're installed when the building is built.
Where I live the concil here have no responsibility for water in apartments ,it's purely up to the managenment company to sort out supply. Maybe the management company will have a responsibility to install the meters ,without additional charges to residents

heinbloed

Yoshytoshy wrote:

Nearly all of europe has water meters ,they're installed when the building is built.
Where I live the concil here have no responsibility for water in apartments ,it's purely up to the managenment company to sort out supply. Maybe the management company will have a responsibility to install the meters ,without additional charges to residents

That's correct.

The problem arises when the billed person does not pay the bill.
If the management company/owner of an apartment block disapears will the apartment block be cut off? Despite the ocupants having payed their contribution?

In Midleton/Co. Cork the council didn't pay the water charges in full to the supplier since many years, being there no individual meters/consumers/contract partners will the entire town now be cut off?

It is more consumer and supplier friendly to have the meters installed seperatly for each apartment.
The consumer has a right to be told what his bill is, paying neighbour's bills is not enforceable by law.
See dathi's post as well.

Or we try it at the tap in the pub, just try to pay a contribution to the monthly supply of fluids and gurgle away.....

heinbloed

If water metering doesn't come soon the electric meters might become superfluous.
Power generating taps have been developed and will roll-in soon.

See

http://www.grohe.com/p/25_8630.html?item=517&id_cat=77

The next generation might charge batteries, run the radio, who knows.


Or to answer the OP's question with a question:

Would apartment owners be allowed to keep the electricity when they pay for the water with a monthly/yearly once-off fee?

creedp

Goodne wrote: »

I don't know whether to laugh or be angry at this post. I don't understand your reasoning that apartment dwellers would use less water that people in houses. Not every (or any that I know) house has a swimming pool, people who live in apartments are allowed to have cars too & I'm sure they occassionaly use a carwash facility like most people do & there is not much point running a tap constantly during the winter when its the water mains running into the estate that freezes. But yes you right I do have a garden that I water most days but I use saved rainwater to do that.

I would suggest you laugh as it supposed to he better for you;)

Well bully for you on the water gardening but of course you are in the minority. Watering gardens especially with those sprinklers jobs is a terrible waster of purified water. Recently I saw a guy setting up a sprinkler to water his lawn when the forecast was for rain the following day, yet the sprinkler was left running for a abut 4 hours. IMHO this is the type of wastage that metering should try and deal with as a priority. I still fail to see how it would be cost effective to retrofit meters for every apt in a block of Apts which were not designed for such meters. Is it not one of the issues one has to accept when living in such buildings, i.e. pay a common water bill, and accept that the family of four next door is benefiting from you payment. To make you feel better go and use the lift unnecessarily for a few runs.

I agree though that new apt blocks should install meters at build stage as it would cost very little extra and cause no disruption and stop those guys flushing the john too often or forgetting to turn off tap when washing teeth!