Child soldiers in conflict?

jonniebgood1

The Germans used children in the battle of Berlin to bump up the defence forces, it is also common policy in African conflicts nowadays. The training of these children in African conflicts also bears resemblence to the Hitler Youth brainwashing of minds to accept whatever they are told.

My Query if anyone can point in the correct direction: Were kids used as combatants commonly in earlier conflicts than WWII?

Also - Were they used in Irish war of independence? I would imagine that they were as look outs but no more than that. Any info appreciated.

Hitler's last public appearance
the Fuehrer inspects boy-soldiers
defending Berlin April 20, 1945

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/berlin.htm

Morlar

It is worth pointing out that the soviets committed many atrocities on the way to berlin, including neustettin etc, the feeling was that women and children would be mass raped (which they were), and so throwing everyone including the old and the young to the front lines was a desperate last-ditch effort to avert catastrophe and buy some time (in their view). The soviets also used the elderly and even unarmed 'volunteers' to catch bullets at leningrad and elsewhere. There were even cases where the soviets shot their own 'volunteers' who survived.

There were many during WWI who were underage. They either slipped through the cracks of the recruitment process, or the desperate recruiters looked the other way. Depending on how you choose to look at it. Here is one of the youngest to die (an Irish boy of 13 yrs old );

http://www.aftermathww1.com/johncondon.asp

Re Irish independence ; youngsters were commonly used for lookouts and for ferrying information. Vinny Byrne was 14 when he fought in the Easter Rising (at Jacobs), having joined the Volunteers at 13 yrs of age. I think it is arguable that culturally people matured earlier in those days. In his witness statement he mentions being kept with approx 20 other younger rebels at Richmond Barracks (not being sent to Stafford and Frongoch like the other men).

Here is an interesting quote on this subject which I would not agree with :
http://www.cairogang.com/ira-men/dalton.html

The Squad's youngest killer was Emmet Dalton's brother, Charlie, the eight-year-old of the 1911 census, whom Collins recruited at the age of 16: and to turn any boy into a cold-blooded murderer is depravity beyond any excuse. I do not know how many people Charlie Dalton killed while the Squad pioneered new and interesting ways of bringing honour to the name of Ireland.

jonniebgood1

From http://scriptamus.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/child-soldiers-are-unfortunately-nothing-new/

also regarding WWII this article expains:

The Germans equipped an entire SS Panzer Tank Division and manned it with 16 and 17-year-old boys from the Hitler Youth brigades. As Germany suffered more casualties, more teenagers volunteered and were accepted, initially as reserve troops but then as regulars. The German ethic of the boy soldier not only encouraged such service but towards the end of the war, the Germans even drafted boys as young as 12 into military service. These children saw extensive action and were among the fiercest and effective German defenders in the Battle of Berlin. American older teens and especially American men were horrified as they fought and killed–and sometimes were killed–by boys who were barely old enough to graduate from elementary school.

Most of the soldiers opposing the German Child Soldiers were Russians. That Russian invading army had many boy soldiers. The brutal German invasion of Russia killed 22 million Russians. Many of the boy soldiers had not only been orphaned but had seen their own parents killed, Many wanted vengeance; others had nothing else to do; others were excited, as young males have been, by the “glory: of war.

It also says that in Sfrica child soldiers are the norm. If this is true then the western worlds shock at the use of child soldiers in Africa is merely us imposing our values on them

In Africa boys had traditionally been used as soldiers but Shaka, the great Zulu warrior king, organized the practice. At the age of 6, boys joined Shaka’s army as apprentice soldiers. Initially they carried spare weapons and did other chores but as their skills developed they took their places as regular soldiers whenever they merited promotion.

So child soldiers has generally been the norm throughout human history, This is why it is so difficult to stop the practice worldwide. International law today makes it illegal, but it is very hard to enforce and is considered normal, effective and/or necessary by those who so exploit the children

Morlar

Here of course is one of the more famous ones :

Manic Moran

If this is true then the western worlds shock at the use of child soldiers in Africa is merely us imposing our values on them

I must agree with this.

There is nothing magical about the arbitrary age of 18. Children far younger than that have proven quite capable of fighting and fighting fairly well. They may not have the physical strength and stamina, but they can hold defensive positions and carry a bazooka.

Ultimately, fighting is about winning. If an OP or checkpoint can be manned by a 14-year-old (and it can be), then that frees up one more adult for other tasks.

NTM

johnny_doyle

Boy used to be a rank in the British Army and Royal Navy. UK National Archives has some snippets about Boy soldiers :

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Enlistment_of_Boy_Soldiers_in_the_British_Army%2C_1795-1959

For many poor/destitute youngsters in the UK pre 1948, the choice would have been workhouse vs Army/Navy. One of the famous boy soldiers was comedian Norman Wisdom.

Canadians had a bit of an issue with boy soldiers, as enlistees and then as opponents at Carpiquet :

http://www.achart.ca/articles/publications/cdn_boy_soldiers.htm

The young Canadian soldier killed in Dublin during the Easter Rising was 16 year old Neville Fryday. Originally from Co Tipp, enlisted Toronto.

Michael Sweeney was 15 when he fought at the South Dublin Union in 1916. Badly wound in the War of Independence; killed "escaping" from a Free State lorry on Grafton St in April 1922. One of the many youngsters caught up in the fighting of that era and now forgotten.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/DT/D.S.192204260004.html

OS119

johnny_doyle wrote: »

...For many poor/destitute youngsters in the UK pre 1948, the choice would have been workhouse vs Army/Navy. One of the famous boy soldiers was comedian Norman Wisdom...

QUOTE]

Manic is correct, the idea that 18 (or whatever) is line at which one can fight is entirely recent. not long ago, and for a very long time, it was perfectly fine for 13 yo's to work in mines and factories, or 9 yo's to clean chiminies - and for a very long time before that anyone over the age of toddling was a working part of the family group, and if that meant hunting, and fighting off hyeanas, then so be it...

Corsendonk

As with WW1 recruiters looked the otherway during the American Civil War.

Unlike later wars in American history, young people were involved in all aspects of the Civil War, including fighting on the battlefield. William Black, the youngest wounded soldier, was twelve when his left hand and arm were shattered by an exploding shell. An unknown number of soldiers—probably around five percent—were under eighteen, and some were as young as ten. Other boys and girls served as scouts or nurses for the wounded. Yet even those who did not participate in the war itself saw their lives altered by the conflict. During wartime, young people had to grow up quickly, assuming the responsibilities of absent relatives.

Enlisting

In 1861, President Lincoln announced that boys under eighteen could enlist only with their parents’ consent. The next year, he prohibited any enlistment of those under eighteen. But heavy casualties led recruiting officers to look the other way when underaged boys tried to enlist, and thousands participated in the conflict as drummers, messengers, hospital orderlies, and often as fully fledged soldiers. They carried canteens, bandages, and stretchers, and assisted surgeons and nurses.

Many young soldiers signed up as drummers, who relayed officers’ commands, signaling reveille, roll call, company drill, and taps. In the heat of battle, many carried orders or assisted with the wounded; at least a few picked up rifles and participated in the fighting.

Child Soldier Accounts can be found at
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/learning_history/children_civilwar/child_soldiers.cfm