La Liga v EPL

ecoli

There is always an argument about the strength in depth of the leagues outside the established heirarchy. To help give better insight I have attempted to compile Euro final appearances, top 2 finishes in the league to show which is actually the more competitive league over the past 20 years

(For the sake of this I am using Chelsea as top 2 only since Abramovich take over before that using Arsenal along with Man Utd, La Liga is Barca/Real)

Champions League final appearances| English Team| Spanish team
|Liverpool|Valencia
|Arsenal|


Uefa/Europa League final appearances| English Team| Spanish team
|Liverpool|Valencia|
|Middlesborough|Sevilla|
|Liverpool|Alaves|
|Fulham|Espanyol|
||Athletico Madrid|



League Wins| English Team| Spanish team
|Arsenal|Deportivo
|Blackburn| Athletico Madrid
||Valencia


League Runners Up| English Team| Spanish team
|Aston Villa|Villareal
|Blackburn| Real Sociedad
|Newcastle|Athletic Bilbao
|Liverpool|
|Arsenal|


Looking at this it seems that the countries are pretty level in terms of competitiveness over a longer duration (though in recent seasons you could argue this)

That_Guy

Those tables are slightly confusing.

PHB

20 years is a pretty nuts timescale. The PL has risen and fallen in that timescale, Serie A has gone from the top to possibly 4th. Things have changed a lot. In recent seasons is what we're talking about, and La Liga is a two horse race in a very uncompetitive way.

Glico Man

PHB wrote: »

20 years is a pretty nuts timescale. The PL has risen and fallen in that timescale, Serie A has gone from the top to possibly 4th. Things have changed a lot. In recent seasons is what we're talking about, and La Liga is a two horse race in a very uncompetitive way.

I think Serie A is still third, the Bundesliga teams haven't been as successful as their Italian counterparts. Bayern have been the only team consistent enough to get to the knockout stage and beyond. Leverkusen had a good run to the final one year and then the knockout stage the year after. Schalke was the cream of their crop this year, despite falling away in the league.

But from watching the Bundesliga a lot more this year, and the way German clubs are run, they'll be a lot more prominent in Europe in the next 5-10 years. I've booked marked this post just in case

TerryTibbs!

EPL is the more competitive league, therefore it is better.

G1032

That_Guy wrote: »

Those tables are slightly confusing.

They are quite confusing alright. Still not altogether sure what they're telling me.

JPA

What??

MagicMarker

I'm a West Brit, therefore EPL.

Glico Man

Should also add, that going back the last 11 seasons (to 2000/2001), including this one, Bayern have won the title 6 times. Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Dortmund x2, Bremen have all won titles in the meantime.

In Serie A, going back to 2000/2001 - Roma, Juventus x3, Milan x2, Inter x6 have won the title. This is skewed due to the corruption scandal.

ecoli

G1032 wrote: »

They are quite confusing alright. Still not altogether sure what they're telling me.

Its a list of Spanish and English clubs outside the top 2 who have made european final appearances or finished in the top two in the domestic league over the past 20 years basically to attempt to highlight the strengths which have emerged asiide from the top 2 in the leagues to try and determine which league is stronger/more competitive.

Its in relation to the comments of the points difference in the Spanish La Liga between the top two and the rest of the league being used as evidence to highlight that the quality in in La Liga is inferior to that of EPL which people refer to as "the most competive league in the world.

The idea with the 20 year time frame is to try and take into account that the Chelsea team has not really changed since their rise so rather a squad that a team that has been dominant in that period

Hope that makes bit more sense

(Just something to defer from the usual transfer speculation which becomes rampant after the season finishes before the Transfer Window actually opens)

CSF

TerryTibbs! wrote: »

EPL is the more competitive league, therefore it is better.

Ok, then by your logic the LOI is the best league of all judging the tiny number of points separating 70% of the teams in the league halfway through the season. Redirect your barstools lads. There is a new league in town

ecoli

CSF wrote: »

Ok, then by your logic the LOI is the best league of all judging the tiny number of points separating 70% of the teams in the league halfway through the season. Redirect your barstools lads. There is a new league in town

No its all about the Swedish Allsvenskan. No club has retained the league 2 yeas running for the last 8 years. Greatest league ever

Messi to AIK you heard it here first:D

eagle eye

PHB wrote: »

20 years is a pretty nuts timescale. The PL has risen and fallen in that timescale, Serie A has gone from the top to possibly 4th. Things have changed a lot. In recent seasons is what we're talking about, and La Liga is a two horse race in a very uncompetitive way.

Two horse race for the title most seasons but its been very similar in England really as it seems nobody is capable of winning besides Chelsea or United. Well up to now anyways, City's huge funds might change that.

Then you look at the other top spots in the league. Six teams have represented the EPL in the Champion's league since four teams started to qualify in 2002/03. They are United, Chelsea and Arsenal and Liverpool all bar twice where Newcatle and Tottenham got in.

In the same period in Spain they have had 10 teams qualify. And only Real Madrid have qualified every season.

CSF

ecoli wrote: »

No its all about the Swedish Allsvenskan. No club has retained the league 2 yeas running for the last 8 years. Greatest league ever

Messi to AIK you heard it here first:D

But what if someone from Cavan or Roscommon doesn't have a local Swedish team?

Paully D

The weaker teams in England are better than the weaker teams in Spain so it's the Premier League for me.

ecoli

eagle eye wrote: »

Two horse race for the title most seasons but its been very similar in England really as it seems nobody is capable of winning besides Chelsea or United. Well up to now anyways, City's huge funds might change that.

Then you look at the other top spots in the league. Six teams have represented the EPL in the Champion's league since four teams started to qualify in 2002/03. They are United, Chelsea and Arsenal and Liverpool all bar twice where Newcatle and Tottenham got in.

In the same period in Spain they have had 10 teams qualify. And only Real Madrid have qualified every season.

Everton also achieved top 4 in 2005

ecoli

Paully D wrote: »

The weaker teams in England are better than the weaker teams in Spain so it's the Premier League for me.

Are they though the Spanish teams regularly out perform England in the Europa League/ Uefa Cup. Surely this should be the marker of being "better"

eagle eye

Paully D wrote: »

The weaker teams in England are better than the weaker teams in Spain so it's the Premier League for me.

How do you guage that?

mike65

Inserts standard "La Liga = SPL with sun" remark

Dempsey

mike65 wrote: »

Inserts standard "La Liga = SLP with sun" remark

SLP? Sounds like a political party!

Bodhisopha

20 years? The EPL was the 4th best league in Europe 20 years ago.

Paully D

ecoli wrote: »

Are they though the Spanish teams regularly out perform England in the Europa League/ Uefa Cup. Surely this should be the marker of being "better"

The only thing the majority of English clubs care about is the Champions League. The Europa League is an inconvenience for the majority of English clubs (wrong, IMO) and they don't take it seriously. Spanish clubs treat the competition with respect and take it seriously.

If you want to say that the Spanish teams are better than the English teams based on Europa League performance then that's perfectly fine and I respect that totally as it's hard to disagree with even with the reason I pointed out above, but personally I feel if the teams positioned 8th-20th in the Premier League played the teams positioned 8th-20th in La Liga that the Premier League would come out on top in the majority. That's how I judge the strength in depth of both leagues (which was the original question) rather than judging it on performances in a cup competition which generally isn't taken seriously by English sides.

A Dub in Glasgo

PHB wrote: »

20 years is a pretty nuts timescale. The PL has risen and fallen in that timescale, Serie A has gone from the top to possibly 4th. Things have changed a lot. In recent seasons is what we're talking about, and La Liga is a two horse race in a very uncompetitive way.

Your signature shows the EPL is uncompetitive

A Dub in Glasgo

Paully D wrote: »

The only thing the majority of English clubs care about is the Champions League. The Europa League is an inconvenience for the majority of English clubs (wrong, IMO) and they don't take it seriously. Spanish clubs treat the competition with respect and take it seriously.

If you want to say that the Spanish teams are better than the English teams based on Europa League performance then that's perfectly fine and I respect that totally as it's hard to disagree with even with the reason I pointed out above, but personally I feel if the teams positioned 8th-20th in the Premier League played the teams positioned 8th-20th in La Liga that the Premier League would come out on top in the majority. That's how I judge the strength in depth of both leagues (which was the original question) rather than judging it on performances in a cup competition which generally isn't taken seriously by English sides.

You base your whole argument on 'I think the EPL clubs don't value the UEFA Cup and that is why they are **** in it. The LL clubs value it and that is why they do well'?

losthorizon

TerryTibbs! wrote: »

EPL is the more competitive league, therefore it is better.

Youve just shouted in something a window and left . Not exactly a great argument. I would have thought the opposite. It seems to me that more Spainish teams appear in European finals and SF than English teams.

BTW with reagrd to the time period i think a fellow poster has pointed out that 20 years is waaaay tooo long. UEFA has got it right - 5 years.

Its funny how things change though when I was young it was English clubs who were cock of the walk, the the italina s took over for a long time, then we had a mix and match period then spainish teams, then english teams again and I feel things are changing again.

I just think Italy will continue to disimprove - its sad to see but completely self inflicted.

losthorizon

eagle eye wrote: »

Two horse race for the title most seasons but its been very similar in England really as it seems nobody is capable of winning besides Chelsea or United. Well up to now anyways, City's huge funds might change that.

Then you look at the other top spots in the league. Six teams have represented the EPL in the Champion's league since four teams started to qualify in 2002/03. They are United, Chelsea and Arsenal and Liverpool all bar twice where Newcatle and Tottenham got in.

In the same period in Spain they have had 10 teams qualify. And only Real Madrid have qualified every season.

ecoli wrote: »

Everton also achieved top 4 in 2005

And were beaten home and away by little Villareal before the group stages :P