GP Fees

pog it

In general I think the average doctors charge is 60euro. Even in the rural area where I am from one local doctor charges 50euro per visit, the other charges 60euro. This is utter madness and they really need to go under the spotlight for these charges.

I think 40euro should be the absolute cap that doctor should charge.

On a related note, does anyone for instance know of one good doctor who charges 40 euro in Dublin city centre? Just to see if any doctor out there has any scruples about this?

123balltv

cost of living is still extremely expensive in this tiny, little Country of our's.
I would'nt mind Britain taking control of the Republic just to recieve free
healthcare the piece of mind would be go good I lie awake at nights whenever I feel unwell I know I cant afford GPs/A&E whats A&E again €120 :eek:

sollar

Doctors get about €100 a year for a medical card patient no matter how many times they call in. They make their profit from the private patients.

dissed doc

123balltv wrote: »

cost of living is still extremely expensive in this tiny, little Country of our's.
I would'nt mind Britain taking control of the Republic just to recieve free
healthcare the piece of mind would be go good I lie awake at nights whenever I feel unwell I know I cant afford GPs/A&E whats A&E again €120 :eek:

Will you be willing to pay the 12% of your monthly income to fund the "free" service though.

"if you earn more than £139 a week and up to £817 a week, you pay 12 per cent of the amount you earn between £139 and £817
if you earn more than £817 a week, you also pay 2 per cent of all your earnings over £817

So, yeah, it would be great. All the people who previously pay nothing for health care like yourself would be paying for it instead.

lima

It's ridiculous and one of the reasons I would find it hard to move back and settle in Ireland. Even Germany is €10 max per visit.

keithclancy

lima wrote: »

It's ridiculous and one of the reasons I would find it hard to move back and settle in Ireland. Even Germany is €10 max per visit.

10 euros no matter how many times you visit in a quarter.

so max 40 euros / year.

However its coming directly out of your wages in the form of 10% whether you go or not.

irishh_bob

pog it wrote: »

In general I think the average doctors charge is 60euro. Even in the rural area where I am from one local doctor charges 50euro per visit, the other charges 60euro. This is utter madness and they really need to go under the spotlight for these charges.

I think 40euro should be the absolute cap that doctor should charge.

On a related note, does anyone for instance know of one good doctor who charges 40 euro in Dublin city centre? Just to see if any doctor out there has any scruples about this?

i live in rural ireland , the surgery where im registered charges 45 euro per consultation and if you need to make a return visit within a week , the charge is 25 euro , cost of a repeat prescription is 25 euro , its not what they charge that i have a problem with , anyone who is self employed has the right to charge what they like , what i have a problem with is that thier is a cap on the number of GP,s who can set up a surgery , thus protecting thier incomes , thier is also the issue of gp,s not encroaching on other gp,s , i.e , not stealing patients from outside thier so called cathment area , i was sick with a chest infection last week , not too fond of my local gp so rang three other doctors within a 20 mile radius , each of them told me to go back to where i was registered , now imagine if you were a regular weekly shopper in tesco but decided this week that you wanted to go to dunnes stores in the next town over , do you think the person at the till would tell you to go back to tesco , doctors see themselves as above vulgar competition , they are not operating in the private sector in the true sense of the word , more like the sheltered sector , time this cosy cartel was give a taste of 2011 depression ireland , thier can be no more cossetting of elites in this country anymore

Geuze

sollar wrote: »

Doctors get about €100 a year for a medical card patient no matter how many times they call in. They make their profit from the private patients.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/Staff/PCRS/Contractor_Handbooks/Doctor_Schedule_of_Fees1.pdf

Here are the fees paid to GPs under the GMS.

It seems they get a fixed annual fee per GMS patient, plus 50.64 for each consultation.

sollar

Geuze wrote: »

http://www.hse.ie/eng/Staff/PCRS/Contractor_Handbooks/Doctor_Schedule_of_Fees1.pdf

Here are the fees paid to GPs under the GMS.

It seems they get a fixed annual fee per GMS patient, plus 50.64 for each consultation.

The 50.64 is for out of hours service only.

later12

Geuze wrote: »

It seems they get a fixed annual fee per GMS patient, plus 50.64 for each consultation.

You should at least read your own link. Under a 1989 agreement the principal payment to GPs is the capitation - a payment for every person on the list.

The only fees which are paid in addition to this are for those services that have been provided out-of-hours or other special services, such as providing services to a person who has been recognised as eligible for assistance by the HSE and who is temporarily resident in the GPs catchment area.

This is made quite clear in your link..

Trampas

Don't get me started about getting an appointment with one.

Sorry I didn't plan to be sick/injured today.

I think it is to dear but I would always go to the doc before hospital so I can skip A&E

Geuze

I note the clarification.

lmimmfn

Wasnt the GP fee 50euro last year, and 60euro now? i took our baby to the myDoc or whatever its called and was shocked when he asked for 60 instead of 50, also didnt take credit card, quite easy to fiddle the books with that kind of operation.

irishh_bob

lmimmfn wrote: »

Wasnt the GP fee 50euro last year, and 60euro now? i took our baby to the myDoc or whatever its called and was shocked when he asked for 60 instead of 50, also didnt take credit card, quite easy to fiddle the books with that kind of operation.

my gp put up the price of repeat prescriptions in the past 18 months , one could interprete an increase in some GP,s fees as a way of showing regular people that doctors are exempt from the effects of rescession , its a pretty blatant expression of contempt

pog it

Surely the Government could introduce some new legislation to put a cap on what they can charge? Particularly in light of cutting wages of those people who earn a pittance in the hospitality sector. It's pretty disgusting really.

Nonoperational

pog it wrote: »

Surely the Government could introduce some new legislation to put a cap on what they can charge? Particularly in light of cutting wages of those people who earn a pittance in the hospitality sector. It's pretty disgusting really.

Of course they can't. Can they put a cap on what a barber charges to cut my hair? I appreciate it's a disingenuous example but it's a private contract between someone providing a service and the person that needs that service. It can't be capped.

tara73

lima wrote: »

It's ridiculous and one of the reasons I would find it hard to move back and settle in Ireland. Even Germany is €10 max per visit.

to get this right: you pay mandatory 15,5 % monthly from your salary in germany for health insurance. (the 10 Euro has to be paid additionally for every quarter vsiting the GP, they always find some ridiculous new laws to get even more money out of the pocket from the ordinary people).

so 15,5% from your salary every month is a lot of money but every system has it advantages and disadvantages. if you got sick longterm or chronically in germany, the system in germany works better for you, if you're a quite healthy person and normally don't need doctors or hospitals you're better off in Ireland!

Arnold Layne

dissed doc wrote: »

Will you be willing to pay the 12% of your monthly income to fund the "free" service though.

"if you earn more than £139 a week and up to £817 a week, you pay 12 per cent of the amount you earn between £139 and £817
if you earn more than £817 a week, you also pay 2 per cent of all your earnings over £817

So, yeah, it would be great. All the people who previously pay nothing for health care like yourself would be paying for it instead.

So, it's better considering the PRSI & USC that we pay for no health service

irishh_bob

gpf101 wrote: »

Of course they can't. Can they put a cap on what a barber charges to cut my hair? I appreciate it's a disingenuous example but it's a private contract between someone providing a service and the person that needs that service. It can't be capped.

thier is a key difference here , thier isnt a cap on the number of barbers who can open shops like thier is GP,s who can set up surgerys , if barbers were as sheltered as GP,s, the cost of getting your haircut would be double what it is now , the goverment can deregulate the GP sector

markpb

gpf101 wrote: »

Of course they can't. Can they put a cap on what a barber charges to cut my hair? I appreciate it's a disingenuous example but it's a private contract between someone providing a service and the person that needs that service. It can't be capped.

You could argue that a GPs service is slightly more important than a barber (sorry barbers!). If someone avoids or delays going to the barber because they're short on cash, nothing will happen. The sane ain't true about doctors.

irishh_bob

markpb wrote: »

You could argue that a GPs service is slightly more important than a barber (sorry barbers!). If someone avoids or delays going to the barber because they're short on cash, nothing will happen. The sane ain't true about doctors.

oh i get it , when it comes to comparing which is more important , a haircut or a heart attack , its a no brainer , further reinforces the view that GP,s are a cut ( no pun intended ) above the rest

Geuze

tara73 wrote: »

to get this right: you pay mandatory 15,5 % monthly from your salary in germany for health insurance. (you're better off in Ireland!

http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Health_insurance

Note that employers pay roughly half of the health ins premium.

Geuze

Government Health System (GKV)

Most German residents (approximately 70 million people) are members of the government health system. If your gross salary is below 49,500 Euros per year or 4,125 Euros per month (2011 figures) then membership in the GKV is mandatory. The government health insurance scheme is administered by approx. 160 Krankenkassen and they must charge the same basic rate. The basic rate of government health insurance is 15.5% of your eligible gross salary to a maximum monthly limit of 3,713 Euros income (2011 figures). If you earn more than this you do not pay a higher insurance premium. Assuming you pay the maximum monthly premium of 575 Euros as an employee earning at or above the threshold and are therefore a voluntary member, your contribution is approx. 305 Euros and your employer pays approx. 270 Euros. The general minimum period of membership with a particular Krankenkasse is 18 months. You can switch government health fund providers by giving two months notice after 18 months membership or if a supplemental premium is demanded or increased.

Geuze

German health insurance:

You pay approx half of 15.5% of wages up to 3713 pm.

Max of 305pm for all your family.

pog it

gpf101 wrote: »

Of course they can't. Can they put a cap on what a barber charges to cut my hair? I appreciate it's a disingenuous example but it's a private contract between someone providing a service and the person that needs that service. It can't be capped.

Of course they could. They could introduce a licencing system whereby if you want to practice as a GP in Ireland you must get a licence and as part of the conditions you can't charge any more than X - whatever cap is determined.

There is obviously a silent agreement of sorts amongst this profession to all charge in and around the same.

listermint

pog it wrote: »

Of course they could. They could introduce a licencing system whereby if you want to practice as a GP in Ireland you must get a licence and as part of the conditions you can't charge any more than X - whatever cap is determined.

There is obviously a silent agreement of sorts amongst this profession to all charge in and around the same.

Are you crazy!, how then would i afford my Range Rover and 3 Story in Rathmines. Cosy cartels for all yay....

irishh_bob

pog it wrote: »

Of course they could. They could introduce a licencing system whereby if you want to practice as a GP in Ireland you must get a licence and as part of the conditions you can't charge any more than X - whatever cap is determined.

There is obviously a silent agreement of sorts amongst this profession to all charge in and around the same.

not only that , GP,s have an unwritten agreement with each other that they wont see patients from outside thier catchment area , they dont steal each others patients , cosy cartel

pog it

irishh_bob wrote: »

not only that , GP,s have an unwritten agreement with each other that they wont see patients from outside thier catchment area , they dont steal each others patients , cosy cartel

Haven't come across that myself but take your word for it! Anyway I'm going to say it to my new doctor next week, I rarely have to go to one luckily enough. Crazy given the profession they are in, but most of them in my experience are motivated more by ego and money.

doctorjohn

irishh_bob wrote: »

thier is a key difference here , thier isnt a cap on the number of barbers who can open shops like thier is GP,s who can set up surgerys , if barbers were as sheltered as GP,s, the cost of getting your haircut would be double what it is now , the goverment can deregulate the GP sector

Sorry for not seeing this thread 'till now. It was in the politics section as opposed to health.
For over 12 months now any suitably qualified GP (not doctor, but trained GP) can open up a medical card practice wherever she or he wishes to, and treat and accept any patients who want to be medical card of hers (or his). If they are qualifird to apply for a GMS contract they will be given one.
If you see an area without enough GPs , then please inform any GPs you know and ask them if they would consider opening up. There is no cartel. Many will chose not to work in areas such as inner city or rural areas.
Many will choose not to work in areas with family unfriendly rotas.
Many will choose to not open in areas where the cost of running a practice is not economivally viable.
Many will choose not to take on the responsibility of being the boss of a SME (with headaches, such as payroll, health and safety, sourcing and building premises, changes in use applications, 24 hour contract commitment).
Many would prefer to remain employees of other practices becouse of their lifestage.

In short , there is no cartel. GPs can open up wherever they want (subject to the same laws of the land that barber's, solicitors, corner shops and tesco retailers, etc are).

Unfortunately most practices are at present letting people go, or reducing hours and this is impacting on service provision , but this is not out of avarice, but out of not being able to balance the books.

jimmycrackcorm

irishh_bob wrote: »

not only that , GP,s have an unwritten agreement with each other that they wont see patients from outside thier catchment area , they dont steal each others patients , cosy cartel

Any gp will take you if you are paying privately. The issue with gms patients is that it is controlled by the Dept. Of Health

Scortho

In college we have free GP access. The problem with this is its FREE. If you need to see a doctor you have to make an appointment. The waiting time for the appointment before college finished in December was 2 weeks! Thing is I was better after 2 bloody weeks!
Yes there is a walk in service but you have to arrive up to 90 mins before it opens to be sure of seeing a doctor!

While the system we have now is expensive, I know that if I need to see a doctor, I can wander in, sit down and ill be seen within an hour. It might cost me a few bob, but at least I get seen when I want to get seen! If we go down the line of free/very cheap GP cover we will have GP surgeries full of children for every little scratch bump and fall they get!

Although the German system is 40 quid per quarter, a tax of 15% of your gross income is a massive amount to pay for health insurance.
How many people spend 15% of their income on healthcare?:eek:

FreshStart

Scortho wrote: »

In college we have free GP access. The problem with this is its FREE. If you need to see a doctor you have to make an appointment. The waiting time for the appointment before college finished in December was 2 weeks! Thing is I was better after 2 bloody weeks!
Yes there is a walk in service but you have to arrive up to 90 mins before it opens to be sure of seeing a doctor!

While the system we have now is expensive, I know that if I need to see a doctor, I can wander in, sit down and ill be seen within an hour. It might cost me a few bob, but at least I get seen when I want to get seen! If we go down the line of free/very cheap GP cover we will have GP surgeries full of children for every little scratch bump and fall they get!

Although the German system is 40 quid per quarter, a tax of 15% of your gross income is a massive amount to pay for health insurance.
How many people spend 15% of their income on healthcare?:eek:

Simple maths...

Health Insurance, prsi, usc ...German system starting to look cheaper.

Rip off Ireland is alive and well.

dissed doc

FreshStart wrote: »

Simple maths...

Health Insurance, prsi, usc ...German system starting to look cheaper.

Rip off Ireland is alive and well.

Not really, you are just paying for a lot of people to have medical cards and free medical care that you cannot get yoruself.

The €50 GP fee pays also for the 6x more visits per year the medical card person takes (because they do not have to pay).

maninasia

doctorjohn wrote: »

Unfortunately most practices are at present letting people go, or reducing hours and this is impacting on service provision , but this is not out of avarice, but out of not being able to balance the books.

So why could some places not charge less and get more customers? Advertise by price? Why not?

maninasia

Scortho wrote: »

In college we have free GP access. The problem with this is its FREE. If you need to see a doctor you have to make an appointment. The waiting time for the appointment before college finished in December was 2 weeks! Thing is I was better after 2 bloody weeks!
Yes there is a walk in service but you have to arrive up to 90 mins before it opens to be sure of seeing a doctor!

While the system we have now is expensive, I know that if I need to see a doctor, I can wander in, sit down and ill be seen within an hour. It might cost me a few bob, but at least I get seen when I want to get seen! If we go down the line of free/very cheap GP cover we will have GP surgeries full of children for every little scratch bump and fall they get!

Although the German system is 40 quid per quarter, a tax of 15% of your gross income is a massive amount to pay for health insurance.
How many people spend 15% of their income on healthcare?:eek:

15% for a public healthcare system must be the top end. The average is 5% contribution where I am based and GPs are available on every street.
There are many ways the system could work, I personally don't think a 'pay as you go' system is a bad idea (I certainly wouldn't like to pay 15% although I note it's capped at 300 euro/mth for a family), just open it up to competition and let the market decide the rates then.

If people want to pay 50 Euro at Doc A or Clinic A because they think they are better well go for it.
Or if you are happy to pay 30 Euro at Doc B or Clinic B even if doesn't have as good service or a longer wait, well why not?

murphaph

Germany has recently abolished the "Praxisgebühr" (the tenner per quarter) which I feel is a big populist mistake by the government.

Instead of abolishing it, they should have introduced it for the welfare recipients as well (who never had to pay a penny).

If you're really sick, you'll pay a tenner to see the doc. If you're just a bit under the weather, you'll survive.

In Ireland, we should have universal healthcare as well, BUT retaining a GP visit charge (I think €5 per visit, with exemptions for people diagnosed with chronic illnesses) for all.

Scortho

FreshStart wrote: »

Simple maths...

Health Insurance, prsi, usc ...German system starting to look cheaper.

Rip off Ireland is alive and well.

Prsi and USC goes towards different areas of our social welfare budget and general government spending. So in order to have a German style system, we'd have to increase tax by another 5%. For a service you might only use once a year, that 5% would be a lot!
And it's 5% of your income that won't be spent elsewhere in the economy!

Scortho

maninasia wrote: »

15% for a public healthcare system must be the top end. The average is 5% contribution where I am based and GPs are available on every street.
There are many ways the system could work, I personally don't think a 'pay as you go' system is a bad idea (I certainly wouldn't like to pay 15% although I note it's capped at 300 euro/mth for a family), just open it up to competition and let the market decide the rates then.

If people want to pay 50 Euro at Doc A or Clinic A because they think they are better well go for it.
Or if you are happy to pay 30 Euro at Doc B or Clinic B even if doesn't have as good service or a longer wait, well why not?

Our family in the last 2 years have spent about 200 quid on GP fees.
It's capped at 3600 a year? No wonder you'd have GP's on every street!

Icepick

sollar wrote: »

Doctors get about €100 a year for a medical card patient no matter how many times they call in. They make their profit from the private patients.

This. Private patients subsidize medical card holders (twice).
There should be a GP fee for medical card holders.

jester77

Scortho wrote: »

In college we have free GP access. The problem with this is its FREE. If you need to see a doctor you have to make an appointment. The waiting time for the appointment before college finished in December was 2 weeks! Thing is I was better after 2 bloody weeks!
Yes there is a walk in service but you have to arrive up to 90 mins before it opens to be sure of seeing a doctor!

While the system we have now is expensive, I know that if I need to see a doctor, I can wander in, sit down and ill be seen within an hour. It might cost me a few bob, but at least I get seen when I want to get seen! If we go down the line of free/very cheap GP cover we will have GP surgeries full of children for every little scratch bump and fall they get!

Although the German system is 40 quid per quarter, a tax of 15% of your gross income is a massive amount to pay for health insurance.
How many people spend 15% of their income on healthcare?:eek:

It's 15% if you are publicly insured, but the employee only pays around 7% or 8%. It's the responsibility of the employer to pay the remainder. This is one of the reasons that hiring someone in Germany is expensive, the employer has to pay a lot of taxes on top of their wage. If you are self-employed you pay the full 15%.

But there is also private health insurance which is a fixed cost per month. Once you earn over 50k it works out cheaper to get private health insurance and you get much better treatment. The big difference is that you pay all the medical costs up front and then claim back from the insurance company.

Geuze

The German system is based on health insurance, not tax financing.

So most healthcare is not paid by taxes, as it is here.

Here is an explanation:

"All in all, what this means is: if you are employed by a German company or any other foreign company in Germany and you earn less than EUR 4,350 gross salary per month, you are a mandatory member of the public German health insurance system. You pay half plus 0.9% and your employer pays roughly half of the insurance premium too. As of 2009, the premium has been standardised for all public health insurance companies at 15.5% of gross salary up to the threshold ( Beitragsbemessungsgrenze) of EUR 47,250 (i.e. EUR 3,937.50 a month). This means that as an employee with a gross salary of more than EUR 3,937.50 a month, you will pay public health insurance capped at EUR 322.88 (8.2% of EUR 3,937.50), and public nursing insurance capped at 50.20€ (1.275% of EUR 3,937.50) if are childless or 40.36€ (1.025% of EUR 3,937.50) if you have a child. Your employer's contribution will be roughly that much again, adding up to 15.5% for public health insurance and 2.3% for public nursing insurance (2.05% if you have a child). Although they more or less offer the same services, it's still worth comparing."

maninasia

In a true national health insurance system the fee is carried with the patient i.e. the patient becomes a valued customer and doctors/hospitals can compete for the customer within reason. This can mean offering differing specialties, convenient opening hours, differing pricing scales etc.

Completely different than the cartel that operates in Ireland, which operates at the expense of the real working class.

murphaph

maninasia wrote: »

In a true national health insurance system the fee is carried with the patient i.e. the patient becomes a valued customer and doctors/hospitals can compete for the customer within reason. This can mean offering differing specialties, convenient opening hours, differing pricing scales etc.

Completely different than the cartel that operates in Ireland, which operates at the expense of the real working class.

This is sort of the case in Berlin at least. We are expecting a baby and have visited several clinics in recent months so we can decide where the baby will be born. We found this attitude of "we need your business" very prevalent (and customer service isn't really a big thing in the land of Lidl and Aldi!). Whatever is done in Ireland, there is definitely a better and CHEAPER way!

Sadderday

go to www.primacare.ie ... the have gps and dentists in plenty of locations of dublin and would suit those in meath too.

Open late and weekends- fairly handy to get an appointment, apply for a loyalty card on the site and its only €40 to see the gp.

would recommend.